Forums/NHL Trades

(TOR / CHI) - Morin for Panik

Who won the trade?
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Jan 3, 2016 at 9:29
#1
A trade between Toronto Maple Leafs and Chicago Blackhawks has been confirmed.
Trade Details
Jan 4, 2016 at 11:36
#2
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 28,429
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On Sunday evening, Panik scores the winning goal for the Marlies in OT. A few hours later, he's traded. Good luck to both guys. Panik seems to have talent (maybe not the real good hands), and with more consistency looks like he could be an NHLer, which has eluded him so far. The move to the Hawks could be his last shot.
Apr 10, 2017 at 2:49
#3
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,070
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Well we all know how this one turned out. Stan Bowman and Co. with another steal.
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Apr 10, 2017 at 3:50
#4
rangersandislesfan
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 26,875
Likes: 2,908
Quoting: Hockeyplayer1
Well we all know how this one turned out. Stan Bowman and Co. with another steal.


This might sound ridiculous, but i really think Stan Bowman is one of the worst GMs in the league.
Apr 11, 2017 at 10:10
#5
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,070
Likes: 152
Might sound ridiculous? You certainly do. I don't care if he has made trades that seem bad to you, a GM that has iced 3 Stanley Cup winning teams is not also one of the worst.

Yes Dale Tallon drafted Toews and Kane, but literally any GM could have done that. Those two were projected to go in the exact selections they were chosen at. Seabrook Keith and Crawford were all selected prior to Tallon by the then GM Mike Smith.
Tallon had many good picks over his time but that also comes with having the best selection spots in the draft. He made some good trades, which comes easy as a bottom dweller of the league. SEE all of the trades lately where bottom dwellers get very good players for very little value given.

Bowman has had to draft from the back of the draft and he has made some great selections. He has also had to make trades from the top of the league and has made both good and bad trades. Yet he has still managed 3 Stanley Cups and 9 straight playoff appearances.

You can have your opinion. Just know that it is wrong wink
Apr 11, 2017 at 2:46
#6
rangersandislesfan
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 26,875
Likes: 2,908
Quoting: Hockeyplayer1
Might sound ridiculous? You certainly do. I don't care if he has made trades that seem bad to you, a GM that has iced 3 Stanley Cup winning teams is not also one of the worst.

Yes Dale Tallon drafted Toews and Kane, but literally any GM could have done that. Those two were projected to go in the exact selections they were chosen at. Seabrook Keith and Crawford were all selected prior to Tallon by the then GM Mike Smith.
Tallon had many good picks over his time but that also comes with having the best selection spots in the draft. He made some good trades, which comes easy as a bottom dweller of the league. SEE all of the trades lately where bottom dwellers get very good players for very little value given.

Bowman has had to draft from the back of the draft and he has made some great selections. He has also had to make trades from the top of the league and has made both good and bad trades. Yet he has still managed 3 Stanley Cups and 9 straight playoff appearances.

You can have your opinion. Just know that it is wrong wink


But the thing is, he keeps acquiring players that aren't a good fit there. I mean, everyone does that, but Stan Bowman does it a LOT. He gave up Danault and a 2nd for Fleischmann and Weise, and they weren't good fits there. Ladd wasn't a good fit there and they gave up a LOT for him. And he traded away Stephen Johns who has been playing some pretty good hockey, and Patrick Sharp, who until this year, had been a pretty good player even compared to other NHL players.
Also, i usually think about stuff as if there's no salary cap, but there is, so ... look at those horrible contracts to Kane and Toews. Maybe they did that Johns, Sharp - Daley, Garbutt trade to get rid of some salary (not sure what the salaries are for those players), but he was the one who signed Toews and Kane to those huge contracts. And look how Daley played there. Another guy who wasn't a good fit for them. Then they traded Garbutt for Sekac, who they lost on waivers, and then they traded Daley for Scuderi and Scuderi for Ehrhoff. They don't have any of what they got in that deal anymore.
Also not a big fan of the Sam Carrick move at the deadline as i think he has potential.

He gave up a lot for Johnny Oduya, who i really think might be a bit overrated. I mean, he's a good passer, but i see him as a good 3rd pairing guy who plays a good game but isn't really a top 4 guy in my opinion. He gave up Raantta for not much too.
He traded away Teravainen for picks as well, which i don't think helped them.

So overall, i think we'll have to wait 5 years or so, and i have a feeling that Chicago will be horrible in 5 years, and maybe for the next 6-7-8 years after that. That's just me though.
Apr 11, 2017 at 3:50
#7
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,272
Likes: 2,433
Edited Apr 11, 2017 at 3:56
Quoting: rangersandislesfan


But the thing is, he keeps acquiring players that aren't a good fit there. I mean, everyone does that, but Stan Bowman does it a LOT. He gave up Danault and a 2nd for Fleischmann and Weise, and they weren't good fits there. Ladd wasn't a good fit there and they gave up a LOT for him. And he traded away Stephen Johns who has been playing some pretty good hockey, and Patrick Sharp, who until this year, had been a pretty good player even compared to other NHL players.
Also, i usually think about stuff as if there's no salary cap, but there is, so ... look at those horrible contracts to Kane and Toews. Maybe they did that Johns, Sharp - Daley, Garbutt trade to get rid of some salary (not sure what the salaries are for those players), but he was the one who signed Toews and Kane to those huge contracts. And look how Daley played there. Another guy who wasn't a good fit for them. Then they traded Garbutt for Sekac, who they lost on waivers, and then they traded Daley for Scuderi and Scuderi for Ehrhoff. They don't have any of what they got in that deal anymore.
Also not a big fan of the Sam Carrick move at the deadline as i think he has potential.

He gave up a lot for Johnny Oduya, who i really think might be a bit overrated. I mean, he's a good passer, but i see him as a good 3rd pairing guy who plays a good game but isn't really a top 4 guy in my opinion. He gave up Raantta for not much too.
He traded away Teravainen for picks as well, which i don't think helped them.

So overall, i think we'll have to wait 5 years or so, and i have a feeling that Chicago will be horrible in 5 years, and maybe for the next 6-7-8 years after that. That's just me though.


Man, you're crazy. The Hawks team management is the reason they've been so successful, and this is coming from a Blues fan. Your complaints above are trivial. Bowman understands that to win, you build a core and you don't stay attached to guys outside of the core. Yeah, he signed Kane and Toews for too much, but it was to ensure he keeps his core together for this cup window. So what if they're horrible in 5 years??? It's a cyclical league, and when you have a good talent core and cup aspirations every year, you make the moves like he did for rentals and role players. Sure, they might not always pay off, but at the end of the day, 3 cups in 6 years and a chance now for 4 in 8 is exactly what defines a great GM. As for the guys that he has moved out, yeah there has been a lot of talent leaving. He had to lose Teravainen to be able to shed Bickell's contract. He had to move Sharp due to cap implications. Raanta was pushed out by Darling, big deal if they lost a backup goalie without a massive return. Couldn't afford Saad or Leddy either. The fact that they can lose all this talent and remain contenders is a testament to the quality of the GM (and coach). You are just trolling around hoping to tick someone off. "In my opinion, Crosby is a 3rd liner". You need to learn how to digest information and form a defensible stance rather than just spew uneducated and unfactual opinions.
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Apr 11, 2017 at 10:17
#8
rangersandislesfan
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 26,875
Likes: 2,908
Quoting: AK_tune
Quoting: rangersandislesfan


But the thing is, he keeps acquiring players that aren't a good fit there. I mean, everyone does that, but Stan Bowman does it a LOT. He gave up Danault and a 2nd for Fleischmann and Weise, and they weren't good fits there. Ladd wasn't a good fit there and they gave up a LOT for him. And he traded away Stephen Johns who has been playing some pretty good hockey, and Patrick Sharp, who until this year, had been a pretty good player even compared to other NHL players.
Also, i usually think about stuff as if there's no salary cap, but there is, so ... look at those horrible contracts to Kane and Toews. Maybe they did that Johns, Sharp - Daley, Garbutt trade to get rid of some salary (not sure what the salaries are for those players), but he was the one who signed Toews and Kane to those huge contracts. And look how Daley played there. Another guy who wasn't a good fit for them. Then they traded Garbutt for Sekac, who they lost on waivers, and then they traded Daley for Scuderi and Scuderi for Ehrhoff. They don't have any of what they got in that deal anymore.
Also not a big fan of the Sam Carrick move at the deadline as i think he has potential.

He gave up a lot for Johnny Oduya, who i really think might be a bit overrated. I mean, he's a good passer, but i see him as a good 3rd pairing guy who plays a good game but isn't really a top 4 guy in my opinion. He gave up Raantta for not much too.
He traded away Teravainen for picks as well, which i don't think helped them.

So overall, i think we'll have to wait 5 years or so, and i have a feeling that Chicago will be horrible in 5 years, and maybe for the next 6-7-8 years after that. That's just me though.


Man, you're crazy. The Hawks team management is the reason they've been so successful, and this is coming from a Blues fan. Your complaints above are trivial. Bowman understands that to win, you build a core and you don't stay attached to guys outside of the core. Yeah, he signed Kane and Toews for too much, but it was to ensure he keeps his core together for this cup window. So what if they're horrible in 5 years??? It's a cyclical league, and when you have a good talent core and cup aspirations every year, you make the moves like he did for rentals and role players. Sure, they might not always pay off, but at the end of the day, 3 cups in 6 years and a chance now for 4 in 8 is exactly what defines a great GM. As for the guys that he has moved out, yeah there has been a lot of talent leaving. He had to lose Teravainen to be able to shed Bickell's contract. He had to move Sharp due to cap implications. Raanta was pushed out by Darling, big deal if they lost a backup goalie without a massive return. Couldn't afford Saad or Leddy either. The fact that they can lose all this talent and remain contenders is a testament to the quality of the GM (and coach). You are just trolling around hoping to tick someone off. "In my opinion, Crosby is a 3rd liner". You need to learn how to digest information and form a defensible stance rather than just spew uneducated and unfactual opinions.


When did i say Crosby is a 3rd liner?
Anyway, the thing is, he traded away Johns as well as Sharp, not just Sharp. And he over and over again makes bad trades. Dale Tallon kind of built the stanley cup winning team, and then Stan Bowman destroyed it. So if he wasn't the GM they might have had 4 or 5 in 6 years.
Do you think Ken Holland is a good GM? Because if you don't, i could say to you, "They've won 4 stanley cups and they keep making the playoffs, and they'll eventually miss the playoffs of course, like they did this year." He's been the GM in Detroit for a while, so if you think Ken Holland is a bad GM, then what's wrong with me thinking Stan Bowman is a bad GM? Detroit stayed good for a while, and i'm guessing that Chicago could be the next Arizona or something. Probably more like the next Toronto, but not as bad as the Maple Leafs have been. I feel like they'll be bad for a while, and i think the Red Wings could be good again in the next few years.
Also, Stan Bowman is lucky his team is playing as a team. In my opinion, teamwork is the most important thing in hockey. Actually, i'd say hockey is more of a team sport than any other sport, but that's just my opinion. That's the main reason i love hockey so much. So he's not really a big part of why the Hawks are so good in my opinion. They actually don't have the best roster in my opinion. Now that may sound ridiculous, but here's why:

A lot of people think that to have a good roster is to have a good top 2/3/4 d-men, and a good top 6 forward group. However, after that, they really fall off. I mean, they have Keith, Seabrook, Kane, Toews, Panarin, etc, but then they are stuck with Kruger, Kero, Tootoo, etc on the bottom 6 and they don't have the best defence in my opinion. I mean, they have Keith and Seabrook, and they have TVR, and Hjalmarsson, but Campbell's near the end of his career and Oduya's overrated in my opinion.
Also, their goaltending is okay, but i'd say they have two guys that are better than the average NHL backup, but neither of them i would call NHL main starting goalie level goalies.
So they have a good coach, and the team is playing as a team, but Stan Bowman seems to be destroying the team's future, which could make them horrible in a few years, and for years after that. Sorry Blackhawks fans, but i think that could happen.
Apr 11, 2017 at 10:59
#9
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 724
Likes: 100
You really can't blame/or give credit to the GM at the entry draft. It's the scouts that really make the selection. The GMs job is hire the best scouts (and hope).
I don't know why fans are so critical of Bowman because he has or will lose some players due to the salary cap. That happens to all teams in reality. Bowman has won Cups so the pain in should be far less for Hawk fan.
Take the Blues they couldn't sign Shattenkirk or Parayko this summer (admitting Shatt is a UFA). due to cap restraints. Blues haven't won as many playoff rounds as the Hawks have won Cups.
And someone criticized the contracts to Toews and Kane.(20.2m) I would be a lot more upset if the a fan of the Kings when Kopitar makes 10m or the Flyers when Giroux and Vorakchek made 17m and there are lot more examples showing poor cap management by most team. I do wonder about the Seabrook, I mean who would have offered as much and for so much term.
Someone mentioned Saad. He's overpaid, so the Hawks made a good deal getting players since Columbus would going to put in a 6m offer sheet. A lot of teams got caught in the sign RFAs at all cost. I'm sure the Panthers wonder if Ekblad and 7.5m is going to be good value.
Isn't that interesting that opening post was the post....Morin for Panik trade. Any GM could have had Panik for virtually nothing as Panik was playing for the last place Leafs AHL team. But somehow Bowman or someone in the Hawk organization thought Panik was an NHLer. That's good GMing.
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Apr 11, 2017 at 11:59
#10
rangersandislesfan
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 26,875
Likes: 2,908
Quoting: orignalsix
You really can't blame/or give credit to the GM at the entry draft. It's the scouts that really make the selection. The GMs job is hire the best scouts (and hope).
I don't know why fans are so critical of Bowman because he has or will lose some players due to the salary cap. That happens to all teams in reality. Bowman has won Cups so the pain in should be far less for Hawk fan.
Take the Blues they couldn't sign Shattenkirk or Parayko this summer (admitting Shatt is a UFA). due to cap restraints. Blues haven't won as many playoff rounds as the Hawks have won Cups.
And someone criticized the contracts to Toews and Kane.(20.2m) I would be a lot more upset if the a fan of the Kings when Kopitar makes 10m or the Flyers when Giroux and Vorakchek made 17m and there are lot more examples showing poor cap management by most team. I do wonder about the Seabrook, I mean who would have offered as much and for so much term.
Someone mentioned Saad. He's overpaid, so the Hawks made a good deal getting players since Columbus would going to put in a 6m offer sheet. A lot of teams got caught in the sign RFAs at all cost. I'm sure the Panthers wonder if Ekblad and 7.5m is going to be good value.
Isn't that interesting that opening post was the post....Morin for Panik trade. Any GM could have had Panik for virtually nothing as Panik was playing for the last place Leafs AHL team. But somehow Bowman or someone in the Hawk organization thought Panik was an NHLer. That's good GMing.


I didn't say anything about the draft. And also, the Toews and Kane contracts together were 21mil.
Apr 12, 2017 at 9:40
#11
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,070
Likes: 152
I did talk about GMs and the draft. The GM hires the scouts and ultimately has the final say in draft selections and trades. So while the scouts do much of the work the GM still has to know talent and make educated decisions.

As far as rangersandislesfan, I am done listening to this guy/kid. He clearly hasn't followed the NHL much other than the last 3 maybe 4 years. He does not see all that has happened since say 2009 and has no idea how to evaluate players.
Apr 12, 2017 at 6:33
#12
rangersandislesfan
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 26,875
Likes: 2,908
Quoting: Hockeyplayer1
I did talk about GMs and the draft. The GM hires the scouts and ultimately has the final say in draft selections and trades. So while the scouts do much of the work the GM still has to know talent and make educated decisions.

As far as rangersandislesfan, I am done listening to this guy/kid. He clearly hasn't followed the NHL much other than the last 3 maybe 4 years. He does not see all that has happened since say 2009 and has no idea how to evaluate players.


I can name pretty much player on every team, and i don't follow the NHL? Okay.
Apr 20, 2017 at 8:21
#13
Oh Canada
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 395
Likes: 68
Quoting: rangersandislesfan


I can name pretty much player on every team, and i don't follow the NHL? Okay.


hahaha stick to memorizing hockey players because critical thinking is obviously too much to handle.
Apr 20, 2017 at 10:56
#14
rangersandislesfan
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 26,875
Likes: 2,908
Quoting: gojetsgo
Quoting: rangersandislesfan


I can name pretty much player on every team, and i don't follow the NHL? Okay.


hahaha stick to memorizing hockey players because critical thinking is obviously too much to handle.


what do you mean?
 
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