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Forums/Armchair-GM

Money Moves

Created by: ErikJohannsen
Team: 2017-18 St. Louis Blues
Initial Creation Date: Feb. 16, 2018
Published: Feb. 16, 2018
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Trades
STL
  1. Pacioretty, Max
  2. Price, Carey ($2,000,000 retained)
MTL
  1. Allen, Jake
  2. Barbashev, Ivan
  3. Dunn, Vince
  4. Schmaltz, Jordan
  5. Thomas, Robert
  6. 2019 1st round pick (STL)
  7. 2020 3rd round pick (STL)
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2018
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2019
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Logo of the STL
2020
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$75,000,000$68,711,666$0$125,000$6,288,334
Left WingCentreRight Wing
$5,750,000$5,750,000
LW, RW, C
NTC
UFA - 4
$3,500,000$3,500,000
C, LW
NTC
UFA - 1
$3,750,000$3,750,000
RW
UFA - 6
$5,350,000$5,350,000
LW
UFA - 4
$5,125,000$5,125,000
C, LW
UFA - 3
$4,050,000$4,050,000
LW
UFA - 2
$3,850,000$3,850,000
C, LW
NTC
UFA - 5
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C
UFA - 3
$736,666$736,666 (Performance Bonus$125,000$125K)
RW
UFA - 1
$800,000$800,000
LW
UFA - 1
$950,000$950,000
C
UFA - 1
$900,000$900,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
$675,000$675,000
RW, C
UFA - 1
$1,000,000$1,000,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
$1,050,000$1,050,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
$6,500,000$6,500,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 3
$4,500,000$4,500,000
G
NMC
UFA - 1
$5,400,000$5,400,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 2
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RD
UFA - 5
$1,125,000$1,125,000
G
UFA - 1
$2,900,000$2,900,000
LD
UFA - 2
$1,150,000$1,150,000
RD
UFA - 2
$650,000$650,000
RD
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
LW
UFA - 1

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Feb. 16, 2018 at 7:51 p.m.
#1
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LMFAO - STL laughs at you. No thanks.
Feb. 16, 2018 at 7:58 p.m.
#2
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Quoting: worcat
LMFAO - STL laughs at you. No thanks.


What do you mean no thanks?
Feb. 16, 2018 at 10:21 p.m.
#3
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Lately Montreal fans seems to think they can discard any of their players on bad/expiring contracts and think that other NHL teams are just going to open the flood gates and absorb those bad contracts and send high end talent in return. No one wants Price's albatross of a contract no matter how much you retain, plain and simple. You list him as a UFA-1 but fail to address the remaining years well into his twilight that will hamper the Habs for many years.

Let's start with the 2019 first round pick, the Blues are not going to give up their 2nd straight year with not having a first round pick. Not even going to acknowledge the 3rd round pick.
Now let's add a top future center with Rob Thomas and promising up coming defeseman in Vince Dunn. Allen may be in limbo within the organization whether he is a starter or on the way out but he is just now playing into his prime years AND on a team friendly contract under control for enough years for a team to figure out if he is the future or not without hamstringing the team along for years past his prime.
Let's add Schmaltz and Barbashev in for giggles, do you need any more players to help rebuild your team? Need some minor league players for the AHL or something?

This is an extreme over payment. No one is going to save Montreal after they have handed out terrible contract year after year and on top of that send you prospects and ready to play NHL talent. But keep wishing!
Feb. 18, 2018 at 3:05 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: worcat
Lately Montreal fans seems to think they can discard any of their players on bad/expiring contracts and think that other NHL teams are just going to open the flood gates and absorb those bad contracts and send high end talent in return. No one wants Price's albatross of a contract no matter how much you retain, plain and simple. You list him as a UFA-1 but fail to address the remaining years well into his twilight that will hamper the Habs for many years.

Let's start with the 2019 first round pick, the Blues are not going to give up their 2nd straight year with not having a first round pick. Not even going to acknowledge the 3rd round pick.
Now let's add a top future center with Rob Thomas and promising up coming defeseman in Vince Dunn. Allen may be in limbo within the organization whether he is a starter or on the way out but he is just now playing into his prime years AND on a team friendly contract under control for enough years for a team to figure out if he is the future or not without hamstringing the team along for years past his prime.
Let's add Schmaltz and Barbashev in for giggles, do you need any more players to help rebuild your team? Need some minor league players for the AHL or something?

This is an extreme over payment. No one is going to save Montreal after they have handed out terrible contract year after year and on top of that send you prospects and ready to play NHL talent. But keep wishing!


If you look at the long term outlook Price's full contract is there. Price is arguably the best goalie in the world and Pacioretty is a good top six scorer. If you think you don't have to give up a lot of good promising talent for two players that could win you a stanley cup your dumb. Yes, what I am offering is a lot but if you want the best goalie in the world you're going to have to give up a lot. I think you strongly need to reasses your trade value knowledge as star calibre players don't just grow on trees. Carey Price is arguably the Connor Mcdavid of goalies, you would most likely have to give up a team of prospects for Mcdavid and since St.Louis is missing a first they would have to add more prospects.
Feb. 19, 2018 at 5:12 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: ErikJohannsen
If you look at the long term outlook Price's full contract is there. Price is arguably the best goalie in the world and Pacioretty is a good top six scorer. If you think you don't have to give up a lot of good promising talent for two players that could win you a stanley cup your dumb. Yes, what I am offering is a lot but if you want the best goalie in the world you're going to have to give up a lot. I think you strongly need to reasses your trade value knowledge as star calibre players don't just grow on trees. Carey Price is arguably the Connor Mcdavid of goalies, you would most likely have to give up a team of prospects for Mcdavid and since St.Louis is missing a first they would have to add more prospects.


You seem to have a very biased assessment toward your own trade proposal. You could substitute Price with Vasilevskiy, Hellebuyck, Rinne, Bobrovsky, Rask etc. and all of those claiming to have the "best goaltender in the world" would have an arguable case. This works for you because it fits the agenda that you are trying to push. While Price may be a good goalie now, you have to look at his contract toward the end, how will he fare when he is 36? 37? 38? etc? If Price was the best goalie in the world, he'd be able to save Montreal from having this much of a disappointing season. Best goalies in the world don't have mediocre seasons and shut down after they cash in at the bank. After locking a goalie up for that term and cost, you had better hope he is the McDavid of something - unfortunately he won't be able to score for you. You'd rather wish he was the Brodeur or Roy of goalies but to each their own, I guess I am the one that needs to reassess my player knowledge.

Whatever STL decides to do with their money and talent, I'm all for. It could be this exact trade - I wouldn't agree with it but I would watch it close just to tell you I told you so. I don't think adding Price or Patches would get the Blues where they need to be for a Cup - not even close. There are several steps in the middle that need to be addressed before. Montreal needs a hard reset, and unfortunately, I feel like they will have a hard time finding teams to be dance partners to take on large contracts AND hand out a kings ransom of prospects. Desperate teams don't win/win in situations like this. Look at history...
Feb. 19, 2018 at 7:10 p.m.
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Quoting: worcat
You seem to have a very biased assessment toward your own trade proposal. You could substitute Price with Vasilevskiy, Hellebuyck, Rinne, Bobrovsky, Rask etc. and all of those claiming to have the "best goaltender in the world" would have an arguable case. This works for you because it fits the agenda that you are trying to push. While Price may be a good goalie now, you have to look at his contract toward the end, how will he fare when he is 36? 37? 38? etc? If Price was the best goalie in the world, he'd be able to save Montreal from having this much of a disappointing season. Best goalies in the world don't have mediocre seasons and shut down after they cash in at the bank. After locking a goalie up for that term and cost, you had better hope he is the McDavid of something - unfortunately he won't be able to score for you. You'd rather wish he was the Brodeur or Roy of goalies but to each their own, I guess I am the one that needs to reassess my player knowledge.

Whatever STL decides to do with their money and talent, I'm all for. It could be this exact trade - I wouldn't agree with it but I would watch it close just to tell you I told you so. I don't think adding Price or Patches would get the Blues where they need to be for a Cup - not even close. There are several steps in the middle that need to be addressed before. Montreal needs a hard reset, and unfortunately, I feel like they will have a hard time finding teams to be dance partners to take on large contracts AND hand out a kings ransom of prospects. Desperate teams don't win/win in situations like this. Look at history...


Carey Price has had one poor season and you're going to argue that he's a mediocre goalie? For the last how many years Price has been getting Montreal into the playoffs. You see it every season, when Carey is healthy, they win, when he's not healthy, they lose. This season you can argue that he hasn't played well but in the same breath you can argue that this is one of shittiest teams the Montreal Canadiens have iced in the last 4 or 5 years. When I look at a player I like to look at their progression over their career and their success over time as well as their most recent play. Over his career Carey Price has been nothing short of a star calibre goalie and this season he is having an off year which I also would like to believe has to do with the extremely poor state of his team. Once again I am going to use the Connor McDavid analogy. Look at the Oilers, they have one of the best, if not the best player in the league, and they're floundering. Now look at Montreal. They have one of the best goalies in the league, and they too are rock bottom. Also, I'm not doing this trade to "fit the agenda i'm trying to push", I'm proposing this trade because the Montreal Canadiens are a candidate for a rebuild and the St. Louis Blues are looking to go all in and it just so happens that St. Louis could use more consistent goaltending and a proven top six scorer that Montreal could offer up, so they are clearly perfect trade partners and no this trade could not be for "Vasilevskiy, Hellebuyck, Rinne, Bobrovsky, Rask etc.". Lastly, to argue your point about this trade not pushing St. Louis to Stanley Cup contention, just look at the Nashville Preadtors. a couple seasons ago they were completely off the grid and now they're at the top. You know know what they did? They made power trades for pivotal pieces like Johansen, Subban and now Turris. So just look at recent history my friend and maybe we can get your little Blues a cup one day.
Feb. 20, 2018 at 6:23 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: ErikJohannsen
Carey Price has had one poor season and you're going to argue that he's a mediocre goalie? For the last how many years Price has been getting Montreal into the playoffs. You see it every season, when Carey is healthy, they win, when he's not healthy, they lose.

Price and Montreal have been able to make the playoffs recently because the East is extremely weak, not taking anything away from Price's performance but it's much easier to make the East than grind it out in the West. Also - Price healthy = Win. Price not healthy = Lose. I'll keep tabs on this when Price is 34+ and so I can explain to Habs fans why their team continues to lose after giving out a 10mil contract to a goalie.



Quoting: ErikJohannsen
no this trade could not be for "Vasilevskiy, Hellebuyck, Rinne, Bobrovsky, Rask etc.".

Your best goaltender in the world Price has similar career stats to that of Jake Allen.
Price: (Vezina 14-15) GAA: 2.44, PCT: 0.919
Allen: GAA: 2.44, PCT: 0.914
Vasilevskiy: GAA: 2.50, PCT: .920
Hellebuyck: GAA: 2.56, PCT: .915
Rinne: GAA: 2.38, PCT: .918
Bobrovsky: GAA: 2.45, PCT: .920
Rask: GAA: 2.23, PCT: .923

If I had to take anyone off that list, it certainly would not be Price. His best years (statistically) are behind him already, he's never won a stanley cup and again, will start to make 10.5 mil from now until 2023-24. Rask and Price are both 30 years old, Rask has a better GAA and PCT as well as Cups under his belt. Rask also only makes 7mil until 20-21. I'd also rather risk starting Shaky Jakey at his mere 4.35mil (at 27 years old) before he settles into his prime. Price may be a fine goalie but he is the product of what is put around him. If he has a great team like the past, he shines. If his team sucks, he looks like a fish out of water. If Montreal can't move him for pennies on the dollar then they need to support him as the face of the rebuild or face the fact that he will be their crutch in 6+ years when he's shuffling out to the crease after being over worked all these years.

"just look at the Nashville Preadtors. a couple seasons ago they were completely off the grid and now they're at the top. You know know what they did? They made power trades for pivotal pieces like Johansen, Subban and now Turris."

The Preds weren't off the grid as you claim, they were building a very deep team in the process. They weren't just born over night. As a Blues fan, I know this, I see them play the Preds more than I'd like and they've been brewing for years before Nashville started to follow hockey the last 2-3 seasons. What Nashville is doing now is COMPLETELY different from what St. Louis is doing and should not be compared. Nashville is clearly in a WIN NOW mentality as their window is closing. Rinne is 37 and the core of the Preds will eventually break up, which is why they went after Turris and are in heavy pursuit of Rick Nash, E. Kane and others. The Blues however are not in win now mode. They see their prime window being 2-3 years from now. The Blues will not make a giant trade just for the sake of making one, it's not how the ownership or GM plan for the future.
Feb. 21, 2018 at 6:25 p.m.
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Quoting: worcat
Price and Montreal have been able to make the playoffs recently because the East is extremely weak, not taking anything away from Price's performance but it's much easier to make the East than grind it out in the West. Also - Price healthy = Win. Price not healthy = Lose. I'll keep tabs on this when Price is 34+ and so I can explain to Habs fans why their team continues to lose after giving out a 10mil contract to a goalie.

A team doesn't make the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons just because their conference is weaker. Also to argue that one conference is that much worse than the other is a flawed argument. The league today has so much parity, thats what they preach. Every team in this league has a chance to win, just look at the Arizona Coyotes who as of late, as the worst team in the league, have gone on a tear of 6-0-1. The Metropolitan divison, IN THE EAST, has been arguably the best division in hockey the past few seasons, so please don't try to argue that the only reason the Montreal Canadiens are good is because their conference is easy. Also, which team has one the Stanley Cup in the last two years? Was it an Eastern team?
Feb. 21, 2018 at 6:47 p.m.
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Your best goaltender in the world Price has similar career stats to that of Jake Allen.
Price: (Vezina 14-15) GAA: 2.44, PCT: 0.919
Allen: GAA: 2.44, PCT: 0.914
Vasilevskiy: GAA: 2.50, PCT: .920
Hellebuyck: GAA: 2.56, PCT: .915
Rinne: GAA: 2.38, PCT: .918
Bobrovsky: GAA: 2.45, PCT: .920
Rask: GAA: 2.23, PCT: .923

If I had to take anyone off that list, it certainly would not be Price. His best years (statistically) are behind him already, he's never won a stanley cup and again, will start to make 10.5 mil from now until 2023-24. Rask and Price are both 30 years old, Rask has a better GAA and PCT as well as Cups under his belt. Rask also only makes 7mil until 20-21. I'd also rather risk starting Shaky Jakey at his mere 4.35mil (at 27 years old) before he settles into his prime. Price may be a fine goalie but he
is the product of what is put around him. If he has a great team like the past, he shines. If his team sucks, he looks like a fish out of water. If Montreal can't move him for pennies on the dollar then they need to support him as the face of the rebuild or face the fact that he will be their crutch in 6+ years when he's shuffling out to the crease after being over worked all these years.

I believe you left out a key stat that changes your argument my friend. Have you heard of it? Its called games played.
Price: (Vezina 14-15) GAA: 2.44, PCT: 0.919 Games Played: 552
Allen: GAA: 2.44, PCT: 0.914 Games Played: 201
Vasilevskiy: GAA: 2.50, PCT: .920 Games Played: 140
Rinne: GAA: 2.38, PCT: .918 Games Played: 551
Bobrovsky: GAA: 2.45, PCT: .920 Games Played: 379
Rask: GAA: 2.23, PCT: .923 Games Played: 434

After looking at these figures, we can determine that his comparables are Pekka Rinne and Tukka Rask. Tukka Rask has the highest save percentage; however, he has the fewest games played so it's difficult directly compare. However, all of this is irrelevant because you weren't listening when I said that Price was the perfect fit because Montreal and St. Louis are excellent trade partners. Sure you could argue that Rask or Rinne are better than Price all you like but Boston and Nashville aren't willing to trade their number 1 goalie, Montreal is. Please pay attention my friend.

I believe I need to clear the air when I mentioned those Nashville trades. When I said Nashville was "off the grid" I meant that last year no one so that Stanley Cup run coming, they were a dark horse, 8th seed team. I see St. Louis in a similar position as Nashville as Nashville made those big trades to fill important holes in their lineup like a 1C , 2C, and 1D who can move the puck. St. Louis has a good team but have a noticeable achilles heal in their goaltending and could use a goal scoring top six winger.So if St. Louis made these big moves for a Star goalie and top six goal scorer it could push them over the hump. Also, how old did you say Rinne was? 37? Funny how you believe Price is past his prime at 30 yet the Predators still have an all-star goalie in Rinne at 37. Goalies aren't like forwards or defenceman buddy, they tend to mature later. Tim Thomas was 37 when he won a Vezina and a Stanley Cup.
 
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