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OTT - PHI

Created by: El_Capitan
Team: 2017-18 Ottawa Senators
Initial Creation Date: Mar. 14, 2018
Published: Mar. 14, 2018
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
I know you're gonna trash this, but it works for one reason - Philly's window is the next 3-4 years given their star players' age and Ottawa's window will only start opening in 3-4 years given their roster and prospects.

PHILLY - has two star players in their prime in Giroux and Voracek. Add a third in Karlsson and you might finally get to the next level. Annual contenders from the past (PIT, CHI, LA) tend to have a superstar dman and Provorov won't get their in the Giroux/Voracek window. Karlsson - Gottisbehere on PP1 is ridiculous.

Don't fight it... Losing Pratick sucks, but you have to give something up for the best offensive dman in the league in his late 20s. You also keep Myers, Hagg, Frost and Rubstov and add C-level prospects in Englund and Paul for depth.

SENS - you get a true blue chipper in Patrick, as well as two young dmen who can play right now and share Chabot and Gustavsson's window. MacDonald's is there to offset Karlsson's money, but is still better than most dmen in Ottawa right now.

Patrick is injury prone and had an "OK" rookie season overall, but has shown all-star potential over the last month. What more can you ask for? A couple of 2nd round picks (one conditional) as a final sweetener for losing the face of the franchise.

Englund and Paul are expendable given the depth in in Ottawa's C-level prospects. Cut lose. Rebuild your defense. Get 3-5 pieces for the future and embrace the hope!!!!
Trades
OTT
  1. MacDonald, Andrew
  2. Morin, Samuel
  3. Patrick, Nolan
  4. Sanheim, Travis
  5. 2018 2nd round pick (PHI)
  6. 2019 2nd round pick (PHI)
Additional Details:
2019 2nd round pick conditional on Karlsson resigning with Flyers.
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2018
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the NYR
2019
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the CGY
2020
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the CBJ
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
24$75,000,000$63,178,331$0$5,012,500$11,821,669

Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
$5,187,500$5,187,500
LW
M-NTC
UFA - 3
$6,000,000$6,000,000
RW, C
UFA - 2
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,650,000$3M)
C, RW
UFA - 3
$7,250,000$7,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 5
$894,166$894,166
C, LW
RFA - 4
$3,500,000$3,500,000
RW
UFA - 1
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
C, RW
UFA - 2
$3,100,000$3,100,000
C
UFA - 3
$1,800,000$1,800,000
LW, RW, C
UFA - 2
$1,100,000$1,100,000
C
UFA - 2
$3,250,000$3,250,000
LW, C
M-NTC
UFA - 4
$728,333$728,333 (Performance Bonus$182,500$182K)
C
UFA - 3
$4,875,000$4,875,000
RW
UFA - 4
$2,500,000$2,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$360,000$360K)
LD
UFA - 3
$5,000,000$5,000,000
RD
UFA - 3
$4,200,000$4,200,000
G
UFA - 1
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$400,000$400K)
LD/RD
UFA - 2
$2,800,000$2,800,000
RD
UFA - 1
$2,400,000$2,400,000
G
UFA - 3
$653,333$653,333 (Performance Bonus$70,000$70K)
LD
UFA - 1
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$500,000$500K)
LD, LW
UFA - 1
$1,100,000$1,100,000
LD
UFA - 1
$650,000$650,000
LD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
$4,650,000$4,650,000
LW
M-NTC
UFA - 3

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Mar. 14, 2018 at 3:42 p.m.
#1
Bdinella
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I hear what your saying and actually kind of agree but from a Philly standpoint I would rather give up my high picks instead of Patrick
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Mar. 14, 2018 at 3:53 p.m.
#2
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I think you're under selling this deal from Ottawa's standpoint. EK is a valuable piece on any team. That Ottawa could absorb nearly 15M in cap for Philly might just be the more valuable piece. Eating 50% of EK's salary cap would allow Philly the opportunity to bulk up for a Cup run. You should be able to leverage that into an even better payback.
Mar. 14, 2018 at 3:54 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: Bdinella
I hear what your saying and actually kind of agree but from a Philly standpoint I would rather give up my high picks instead of Patrick


Every team would rather give up something unknown from something known. Patrick has been seen skating at the NHL level. That's really the only time NHL scouts can know how good a kid can and will be.
Mar. 14, 2018 at 4:19 p.m.
#4
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As a Pens fan, I hate this idea, but it makes a ton of sense for both sides. Only thing to prevent it is the GMs not being willing to pull the trigger on this big a deal.
Mar. 14, 2018 at 4:41 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: Bdinella
I hear what your saying and actually kind of agree but from a Philly standpoint I would rather give up my high picks instead of Patrick


Quoting: Truebeliever
Every team would rather give up something unknown from something known. Patrick has been seen skating at the NHL level. That's really the only time NHL scouts can know how good a kid can and will be.


I get what you're saying Bdinella from a PHI's' perspective, but Patrick is the centerpiece of the deal from OTT's end. Without him, I think the deal would fall apart for the reason Truebelieve mentioned. Going even further than that, it would be hard for OTT to sell trading Karlsson (and tickets) without getting specifically Patrick back as a "marquee" piece to promote coming the other way, given his 2nd overall pick status.
Mar. 14, 2018 at 4:42 p.m.
#6
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Massive hard pass from the Flyers perspective. The Flyers open window is the next decade with all the kids we have coming up. Hextall is building to be a contender every year, not just 3-4. Plenty of older players still contribute a great deal to their teams so even in 5-6 years Jake and G will only be 35-36 but they won’t be asked to be the stars they are now. That will fall on Couts, Patrick and others.
Mar. 14, 2018 at 4:48 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: Truebeliever
...Ottawa could absorb nearly 15M in cap for Philly might just be the more valuable piece. Eating 50% of EK's salary cap would...


I know we're dealing in pure hypotheticals here, but I tried to keep some semblance of realism to this scenario. Based on OTT's ownership, it wouldn't seem realistic that OTT would keep some of Karlsson's salary when they're currently trying to tie Ryan's contract to the Karlsson trade to dump salary.

But yes, if OTT would be willing to keep half of his salary for the last year of his contract, I imagine they'd try to get a bigger return.
Mar. 14, 2018 at 4:50 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
Massive hard pass from the Flyers perspective. The Flyers open window is the next decade with all the kids we have coming up. Hextall is building to be a contender every year, not just 3-4. Plenty of older players still contribute a great deal to their teams so even in 5-6 years Jake and G will only be 35-36 but they won’t be asked to be the stars they are now. That will fall on Couts, Patrick and others.


Disagree, my friend. The Flyers time is now!! Giroux and Voracek are getting on. Couturier is in his prime and Konecny is awesome. Gostisbehere is top notch, so EK would give the Flyers are genuine 1-2 combo on D. Add one more LHD and either mortgage a bit more to get a goalie or build on Mrazek, you have a Cup contender for 3-5 years. Wait any longer, you lose the value of Giroux and Voracek and run back into cap pressures.
Mar. 14, 2018 at 4:52 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: El_Capitan
I know we're dealing in pure hypotheticals here, but I tried to keep some semblance of realism to this scenario. Based on OTT's ownership, it wouldn't seem realistic that OTT would keep some of Karlsson's salary when they're currently trying to tie Ryan's contract to the Karlsson trade to dump salary.

But yes, if OTT would be willing to keep half of his salary for the last year of his contract, I imagine they'd try to get a bigger return.


There's a difference between keeping cap and paying the actual salary. Melnyk is a cheap SOB. He will gladly take on cap as long as he can dump salary.
Mar. 14, 2018 at 4:56 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: Truebeliever
Disagree, my friend. The Flyers time is now!! Giroux and Voracek are getting on. Couturier is in his prime and Konecny is awesome. Gostisbehere is top notch, so EK would give the Flyers are genuine 1-2 combo on D. Add one more LHD and either mortgage a bit more to get a goalie or build on Mrazek, you have a Cup contender for 3-5 years. Wait any longer, you lose the value of Giroux and Voracek and run back into cap pressures.


This is all completely false. Sure G and Jake are great now but we have so many young kids about to come up that can be just as good. We are 2-3 years from really contending and that is when guys like Patrick, Konecny, possibly Frost, Provy will all be entering their prime. All Karlsson does is take ice-time away from Ghost.
Mar. 14, 2018 at 5:03 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
This is all completely false. Sure G and Jake are great now but we have so many young kids about to come up that can be just as good. We are 2-3 years from really contending and that is when guys like Patrick, Konecny, possibly Frost, Provy will all be entering their prime. All Karlsson does is take ice-time away from Ghost.


The Sam Pollock rule: if you're getting the best player in the deal, you should take it. If I were El_Capitan, I'd be on the phone to the Islanders, which will pretty much ensure they lead the division for the next 7 years.
Mar. 14, 2018 at 7:06 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
This is all completely false. Sure G and Jake are great now but we have so many young kids about to come up that can be just as good. We are 2-3 years from really contending and that is when guys like Patrick, Konecny, possibly Frost, Provy will all be entering their prime. All Karlsson does is take ice-time away from Ghost.


You have a much better chance at a cup with Karlsson, Giroux, Voracek, Couturier and Simmonds in their prime now than with Patrick, Konecny and Frost in 3 years... Saying otherwise either means you haven't seen Karlsson play, or are way over valuing your young players - none are likely to be as good as the guys you have now.

Not to mention Konecny and Frost would still be on the team with the proposed trade. If your argument is it's better to keep Patrick over Karlsson to win a cup, you need to give your head a shake.
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Mar. 14, 2018 at 8:03 p.m.
#13
g-sus
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Hard pass from the Flyers. We're not giving up two of our best young defensive prospects, our 2C, and one of our current A's who, while overpayed, is still a solid 4th/5th d-man. We don't need Karlsson when Gostisbehere already fills the elite offensive d-man role, and Provorov is already a top-20 d-man. If we made this trade, our center depth would be crushed, and we'd have no solid d-prospects other than Myers ready to come up within a year.
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Mar. 14, 2018 at 11:20 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: Canadian_Jester
You have a much better chance at a cup with Karlsson, Giroux, Voracek, Couturier and Simmonds in their prime now than with Patrick, Konecny and Frost in 3 years... Saying otherwise either means you haven't seen Karlsson play, or are way over valuing your young players - none are likely to be as good as the guys you have now.

Not to mention Konecny and Frost would still be on the team with the proposed trade. If your argument is it's better to keep Patrick over Karlsson to win a cup, you need to give your head a shake.


Read what epo said. That’s exactly why we don’t need Karlsson.
Mar. 15, 2018 at 10:13 a.m.
#15
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Quoting: Canadian_Jester
You have a much better chance at a cup with Karlsson, Giroux, Voracek, Couturier and Simmonds in their prime now than with Patrick, Konecny and Frost in 3 years... Saying otherwise either means you haven't seen Karlsson play, or are way over valuing your young players - none are likely to be as good as the guys you have now.

Not to mention Konecny and Frost would still be on the team with the proposed trade. If your argument is it's better to keep Patrick over Karlsson to win a cup, you need to give your head a shake.


There's no point in having a discussion about it with fans who over value their players that much. The fact that you two think you have a better chance to win a cup with Patrick and Sanheim than with Erik Karlsson, shows that. But in all seriousness , you really should watch Karlsson play. He's definitely worth the time.

I like Philly and will be pulling for them in the Metro. I just don't think they can compete with PIT or the Caps. Best of luck, though!
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Mar. 15, 2018 at 10:16 a.m.
#16
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Quoting: ekpaul87
As a Pens fan, I hate this idea, but it makes a ton of sense for both sides. Only thing to prevent it is the GMs not being willing to pull the trigger on this big a deal.


You're in luck because most Philly fans hate it too! But I agree, fan opinion aside, it would be a tough one for GMs to pull the trigger on. Especially for OTT after the Duchene fiasco...
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Mar. 15, 2018 at 10:18 a.m.
#17
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Quoting: Truebeliever
There's a difference between keeping cap and paying the actual salary. Melnyk is a cheap SOB. He will gladly take on cap as long as he can dump salary.


I thought that to keep part of a contract's a cap hit, you had to retain and pay that part of the salary, no?


Quoting: Truebeliever
The Sam Pollock rule: if you're getting the best player in the deal, you should take it. If I were El_Capitan, I'd be on the phone to the Islanders, which will pretty much ensure they lead the division for the next 7 years.


Sam Pollock rule makes sense, but not sure I follow the Islanders thing. Care to elaborate?
Mar. 15, 2018 at 10:31 a.m.
#18
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Quoting: Canadian_Jester
You have a much better chance at a cup with Karlsson, Giroux, Voracek, Couturier and Simmonds in their prime now than with Patrick, Konecny and Frost in 3 years... Saying otherwise either means you haven't seen Karlsson play, or are way over valuing your young players - none are likely to be as good as the guys you have now.

Not to mention Konecny and Frost would still be on the team with the proposed trade. If your argument is it's better to keep Patrick over Karlsson to win a cup, you need to give your head a shake.


This is the best argument in favour of this deal. Couturier is already 25 too, so he'll be 29-30 by the time all these Flyers fans are saying they'll be "ready". That's not his prime anymore. The vast majority of players now peak from 22-27.

Sanheim, Patrick, and Morin have all showed serious concerns that they can be stars at the NHL level (Patrick - injuries, Sanheim/Morin - consistency/poor defensively), so why wouldn't you use them now when their value is high to load up and go after the Cup when you have legitimate stars in Voracek, Giroux, Couturier, Simmonds, plus Provorov and Gostisbehere. Some of you are calling Provorov already a top 20 Dman and some are saying he's not ready yet. He is ready, so get after it.

The only legitimate argument you could make for not going for it now is that you don't think you can beat a Pittsburgh team until Crosby and Malkin slow down a bit. If you want to wait until then, you might as well trade Giroux and Voracek now while they're producing and load up the whole team with young talent.
Mar. 15, 2018 at 10:35 a.m.
#19
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LMFAO, you guys are absolutely clueless. So far every Flyers fan that has entered this convo has said NO. Maybe you should listen to the people that know their team. Karlsson is good but is not needed on our roster.
Mar. 15, 2018 at 1:47 p.m.
#20
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Quoting: El_Capitan
I thought that to keep part of a contract's a cap hit, you had to retain and pay that part of the salary, no?




Sam Pollock rule makes sense, but not sure I follow the Islanders thing. Care to elaborate?


Simply that no team needs an elite RHD more than the Islanders (and it could screw the Flyers a bit, too). The question is really whether the Isles have pieces that would make it worthwhile for the Sens. Not clear, but worth investigating.
Mar. 15, 2018 at 1:52 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: El_Capitan
I thought that to keep part of a contract's a cap hit, you had to retain and pay that part of the salary, no?




Sam Pollock rule makes sense, but not sure I follow the Islanders thing. Care to elaborate?


On the salary question, I don't believe that is the case. I will check and report back, but this is my understanding: If, for example, a player with a $6M contract were traded and 50% of his cap was retained, the receiving team — which receives the full value of the player — takes on the full salary, but the cap burden is split. It would make no sense for a team to retain a cap hit if they were receiving no benefit whatsoever and indeed having to play against that player.
Mar. 15, 2018 at 10:57 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
LMFAO, you guys are absolutely clueless. So far every Flyers fan that has entered this convo has said NO. Maybe you should listen to the people that know their team. Karlsson is good but is not needed on our roster.


What everyone is thinking is that you're such a fanboy that you don't have a clue about your own team because you're in a Flyers bubble. You'd rather keep 2 defensemen prospects that have faded hard ( which you'll deny since you're in the bubble) and a kid who hasn't played a whole season in years due to injuries over a 28 year old franchise defenseman. The fact that you compare Karlsson to Gottisbehere also shows how clueless you are.

So yes, the Pens fan saying he'd hate for you to make that trade because it would threaten their dominance has a lot more cred than you in this thread.

I'd hate to see Karlsson go and would much rather keep him than trade him for this, but if we're not re-signing him, this is as good of a plausible trade as I've seen. Although I'd like to see what Vegas offers first...
Mar. 15, 2018 at 11:00 p.m.
#23
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Quoting: Canadian_Jester
What everyone is thinking is that you're such a fanboy that you don't have a clue about your own team because you're in a Flyers bubble. You'd rather keep 2 defensemen prospects that have faded hard ( which you'll deny since you're in the bubble) and a kid who hasn't played a whole season in years due to injuries over a 28 year old franchise defenseman. The fact that you compare Karlsson to Gottisbehere also shows how clueless you are.

So yes, the Pens fan saying he'd hate for you to make that trade because it would threaten their dominance has a lot more cred than you in this thread.

I'd hate to see Karlsson go and would much rather keep him than trade him for this, but if we're not re-signing him, this is as good of a plausible trade as I've seen. Although I'd like to see what Vegas offers first...


Sanheim has faded hard? Patrick has come on big time in the last month or so and we already have a franchise D man in Provy. Again you show just how clueless you are! Stick to jerking off to Crosby's picture every night.
 
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