i think bitten is better suited on the wing. he mostly plays wing in the ohl as well

Can't help to think that the habs future looks extremely weak....I like Evans and he might actually become an habs in the top 9 but other than that....maybe Fleury has some top-6 potential but that's it.
Such a sh*tty job of drafting and developping done by Marc Bergevin and his staff. That alone should have cost him his job....

Hmm, no, I disagree. How many picks and young quality prospects have we traded away? Timmins did pretty good in drafting, I find.
You´re obviously not seeing here Galchenyuk, Lehkonen, Scherbak, Mete, Juulsen, and Carr, who all easily belong in the NHL now.
You´re also not seeing Poehling, Hawkey, Primeau, since they´re staying in the NCAA for now.
You´re also not seeing Sergachev, for obvious reasons.

Plus, I omitted a lot of 2017 draft picks, preferring to let them season one more season in the juniors, except for Fleury, whom I think is ready.

Your obviously not seeing that we wasted Sergachev's potential for a princess with no character( nice pic mate)
You're not seeing that Carr, Mete, Juulsen, Schebak, Lehkonen haven't proven at all that they were regular Nhl-er. Lehkonen had a very bad year, Carr is an ahler, Juulsen will get a real test in training camp, Mete might have been burned by playing him way too early in the NHL, Scherbak hasn't proven a damn thing either yet.
You're naming NCAA guys who apart from Poehling and Evans are not worthy of considering as future habs player.
Fleury ready for AHL? yea i agree but most certainly not NHL. The habs haven't picked a guy that really stands out from the 2017 draft.

we don't trade quality prospects away cause we fail to develop them and all have no trade value. Beaulieu, Tinordi, Leblanc, Mccaron, Thomas, Dumont, Lernout, Pateryn, Grégoire.

I don´t know why you´re being so salty, but I guess here goes:

1. Not sure what you´re insinuating. Sergachev was a gem that was drafted by Timmins, and got traded away. Further cements my point that trading has caused most of our hole in the prospect pool.
2. Lehkonen did have a bad year, but to say that he´s anything less than NHL-level is ridiculous. At best, you can say he´s at 4th line level now, and I´ll accept that interjection.
3. Carr is not an AHLer. He´s a good bottom-6 options who plays like Gallagher, creates tons of high danger chances despite playing with low tier linemates and ridiculously low minutes. Despite the conditions, he´s the 4th best Hab in creating high-danger offensive chances, both on PP and 5-on-5. Just by this point alone, I know you´re talking out of your ass as a salty Habs fan.
4. Juulsen, well yes. But the league as a whole believes he´s ready for an NHL bottom pairing role.
5. Mete, yes that´s true he got burnt out. Again, the league as a whole believe he´s already ready for an NHL bottom pairing role, at least.
6. You´re saying that two of the best NCAA goaltenders are not worthy of consideration? Seriously, what´s wrong with you?
7. I never said Fleury is ready for the NHL, hence why I put him on the Rockets this year. Jeez, it´s like talking to a wall!
8. From the 2017 NHL Draft, only 11 players have seen at least a single NHL game. From those 11, two are not first rounders (one of which was an emergency backup). Obviously nobody will stand out now out of the first round!

Beaulieu: Touché
Leblanc: It wasn´t Timmins´pick. It was crazy fanatic fans like you who demanded a french superstar that forced the hand of the GM to pick him, even if Timmins wanted someone else.
McCarron: Again, crazy fanatic fans like you demanded a big strong physical center. Whine whine, "we´re the smallest team in the league" whine whine. Bergevin´s hand was forced, so he took the risky option. We all knew it was a risk.
Thomas: Who? We never drafted any Thomas. Do you mean Christian Thomas? We traded a failed prospect for him, I think it´s fair that he fails too.
Lernout: 3rd round pick, who are statistically unlikely to ever make it to the NHL.
Pateryn: This year he´s a solid 4D for Dallas and a quarter of these AGM teams are signing him in the offseason. What crack are you smoking?
Gregoire: 6th round pick, are you KIDDING me? He´s just filling our AHL bottom 6, and that´s fine.

you made a long comment with alot of wrong but also right stuff that i got wrong so i'll only focus on the main ones:

-I am not a fan of Drouin, i disliked the trade last summer and i dislike it even more now.
-Not saying Lehkonen is not Nhl just that he will be at best a top-9 guy but this year showed that he is still far from that after a good rookie campaign. Let's hope it was just the second year struggle stuff.
NCAA goalies.... let's wait until they reach the AHL before getting excited shall we? Lindgren was really good in the NCAA and will be a backup in the NHL it seems like but i mean goaltending is the one aspect that the habs have developped well (thanks to Waite, a guy who dosent get enough credit for what he does) and i'll give you that it sure looks interesting, i didnt know we had those.
-I know nobody will shine out of the 2017 draft right now but we all see that Robert Thomas looks really good so does Bowers and i wished the habs had picked Lauzon. But just overall the only guy really worth being confident about is Poehling, i havent heard anything about the others but like you say its too early and maybe it'll turn out a good draft but i still doubt it.
-Fine Christian Thomas can't be considered a bust by Timmins and i'll take out Gregoire.
-Mccaron was the last guy i wanted the habs to pick....i dont want size at all...i want speed and talent developped within.
What i wish is that the habs draft Boqvist if they pick #4 and try move up to get Veleno/Kupari/Mcleod (centers) so yea im not fanatic about a big strong physicial center
- Pateryn just like Sergachev was traded away in a bad trade so for me its counts as a bad move by Bergevin, Timmins and all the others who said he could make the deal. Same thing for Subban, wasting our players value.
-When Leblanc was drafted i was 12 years old i do believe so i couldn't have much of an influence on that selection i fear.

Quick reminder of the conversation:




You're telling me that drafting and development alone is why we have a bare cupboard, and I'm saying it's because of *trade-aways*, not drafting. Bringing in Pateryn, Sergachev, (Andrighetto), and Subban just solidify my point! Our drafting is fine! If you're going to crucify him, crucify him for trades.

- Robert Thomas was picked #20. We had pick #25, with which we chose Poehling. Your only argument is that Frost (#27) and Bowers (#28) are better, which is way too soon to say. Right now, they're roughly even.
- Lauzon (#51) was picked before our turn in the second round (#56, Brook; #58, Ikonen). How can you blame them for that? He was not 1st round material.
- Your doubts are severely unfounded, as Timmins has one of the best track records in the league (look it up), actually. If we had high picks, or if our GM's didn't continually trade them away, we'd have more to show for it.
- I didn't want McCarron either, and neither did Timmins. But we have a fanatic fanbase, so that's what happens when a guy makes a move to save his career for a few more seasons.

Look man, there's zero chance you're convincing me that Habs drafting is poor. You're only convincing me that our trading is poor.

Well man there's zero chance you convince we been drafting well...

We both agree our trading have been horrific, that's already something!

Since 2012, we have drafted 3, 25, 26, 26, 9, 25... Galchenyuk and Sergachev were both great picks, and the others have statistically a 50% at best to make the NHL from that position. Yet only McCarron looks like a bust in that time. No 2nd round draft picks in 2014, 2015, 2016. De La Rose and Lehkonen are both NHLers, yet taken in positions that are less than 30% successful. 2017 is FAR too early to judge. I really don't understand what you expect from Timmins. I think you need to re-assess your expectations of players selected outside the top 10 in drafts.

Sergachev is gone and Timmins was all for it so it still counts as a mistake. Go look at the habs draft history, they drafted in the second round and third round alot and still have nothing to show for apart from Lehkonen (De laRose lol dont get me started on him). Drafting in the first three rounds is the most important aspect, not only the first round. The habs first round pick has been okay but their 2nd and third rounders have been awful which is why the habs are as bad as they are right now.

You understand that Bergevin has a whole group of guys with input on trades? Their analytics guy was fired after a heated plea to not trade Subban. There is no way of knowing Timmins was on board with trading the guy he just drafted. His is 1 among many voices, in which Bergevin is able to ignore all. To just chalk it up as Timmins mistake in drafting/trading is just lazy.

Since 2012, Collberg (30%), Thrower (15%), Lehkonen (15%), Fucale (30%), De La Rose (30%). No picks in 2014, 2015, 2016. Too early to judge Brooks or Ikonen. So whats your beef? that he drafted two NHLers in 5 low percentage picks? I am not going to argue your opinion of DLR, mostly because at that stage in the draft, you are lucky to get 3rd or 4th line players, and that's what he is.

Walford, Fleury, Bitten are too early to tell, and drafted in positions that typically get 5% of selected players into the NHL. Lernout and Andrighetto have both appeared in the NHL... So that leaves the 3rd round "failures" in Crisp and Bozon. Seems to be batting above 5% in round 3.

Draft position is key, you are right, your expectations of these picks is completely off though.

No idea where you get all those % from haha but look at Timmins interview after the trade, all smiles saying he was alot more involved in the Sergachev compared to Mcdonagh so yea he did approve it.
My beef? how about you compare what other nhl teams develop before saying the habs do it well. They all have young guys under 23 who are having a big impact in their rosters.
Having guys appear in the NHL dosen't mean success lol No young players have grown into important role in the NHL since Chucky (Sergachev dont count) so that's failure to me.

I got those percentages from Brian Wilde. And although my opinions on the team differs greatly from his, if his research has shown x% of players drafted between y-z in the draft, that's stat based and not opinion.

Please give examples of these young players that are impact players around the league that Montreal doesn't have. But since your complaints are mostly about 25-90 in the draft, make sure all your impact players land in that range. Is it one team lucking into a player? OR does this same team hit home runs year after year? Is it one team? or 15?

Also, in trades you have to give to get. Basing Drouin/Sergachev trade off of one season, where Montreal shoved him into a position he is not use to, on a brand new team, it makes sense he struggled. I was disappointed in him too, as well as 80% of the team. Its hard to judge his 1 season where only Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Byron gave it 110% every night on forward. So, Sergachev was absolutely a good pick, and Timmins does get credit for it. It gave them an asset, and trade chip that they spent on someone they felt would be their #1C, however misplaced that belief was.

Ok won’t name them all for obvious reasons but i’ll do it for 5 different teams:

penguins- Guentzel, Sprong( not fully nhl ready yet but looks very good), Kunakhl, Simon, Jarry, Auston-Reese.

Capitals: Vrana, Djoos, Bowey, Stephenson, Wilson, Gerish ( nhl next year most likely), (Forsberg dosen’t count since he was wasted like sergachev or subban)

Ducks: Rakell, Kase, Larsson, Lindholm, Montour, Manson, Steel looks really nice, Gibson, Andersen (traded for good value),

Blues: Barbashev, Edmundson, Parayko, Thompson, Thomas and Kyrou looking very promising, Fabbri, Dunn.

Hawks: Debrincat, Forsling ( via trade), Hinestrosa, Hartman (traded for very good value), teuvorainen (traded because of cap problems)

Sooo as you can see every team that i listed have been able to land 2 or more very good young players having an impact in the top-6 or top-4 which the habs have not apart from Chucky.
And i chose these teams because they drafted late in the last years.

Vrana, Wilson, Lindholm, Thomas, Fabbri, Teravainen are not in that range...
Some of your players were pre-time period you originally set up, so should we add Gallagher to Montreal's list?
Many of these players selected in the 2nd round, in years I already mentioned Montreal didn't even have a second round pick...
Otherwise, you seem to be very inconsistent with the word "impact player" as some of these players are nothing special, and some aren't even in the NHL (which you give 0 credit for Montreal's own prospects). I am sure if Scherbak, Lehkonen, Hudon could make a lot of noise if they had Crosby, Malkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Getzlaf, Henrique, Schenn, Toews..... Seems the only thing your list proved is that Montreal's centers haven't been good enough to prop up our young wingers.

Judging Montreal's 2nd and 3rd (or later) round picks in a 5 year window, which the last two years is too early to judge realistically in this drafting position, and we are missing 2nd round picks in 3 of the remaining 4 years, seems like you don't understand at all how important draft position is. Drafting late in every round except 2016 and 2012 and missing 3 straight years of 2nd round picks, you wonder why we have no "impact players".


If you don't want to be realistic, that's fine, I am done arguing with someone that doesn't take everything into account. Timmins hits almost every draft with 2 NHL players and rarely has a good draft position... Maybe we should just fire him and watch him "suddenly" catch fire elsewhere....

All these excuses to defend Timmins, is he like your father or something?
Wana go back as far as Gallagher’s draft? Fine it only increases the amount of busts we had.

Fire Timmins, he won’t catch fire anywhere else.

And if he drafts so well, why are we stuck with a ton of left wingers and nothing else in other positions apart from Galley?

Unrelated... I just understand the concept of "impact players" typically going early in drafts... and prospect pools going bare when you trade all your picks.

Have a good one.

im sure we'll meet again lol

I assume we don't disagree on everything, hahaha.