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Tavares is an option. As doubtful as I see it, he could be signed and not kill t

Created by: Redbeard53
Team: 2018-19 Philadelphia Flyers
Initial Creation Date: May 7, 2018
Published: May 7, 2018
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
To prove Tavares is an option.

After the 18-19 season, Simmonds, Lehtera, Raffl, Elliott, Neuvirth are gone freeing up 16 mil, to resign Provorov, Konecny Laughton(if they want), Weal, Sanheim and bring up Hart, 2 forwards(Ratcliffe and another preferably, maybe Strome by then). This should still leave roughly 3-6 mil in cap space. When its time to resign Patrick/Frost/young D signed to bridge deals, Weise, MacDonald and Gudas will be UFAs.

Not sure if the sign and trade for JT is enough. May need to through more picks? Players? Donno who will be in charge to determine what they would want.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
3$1,750,000
2$1,150,000
2$950,000
1$850,000
1$850,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
8$11,000,000
Trades
PHI
    Sign and trade for Tavares
    NYI
    1. Rubtsov, German
    Additional Details:
    Both 2018 1st round draft picks
    Buyouts
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2019
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    2020
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    2021
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    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    23$78,000,000$69,155,000$0$4,537,500$8,845,000

    Roster

    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    $4,137,500$4,137,500
    RW, C
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    $4,333,333$4,333,333
    C
    UFA - 4
    $894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
    RW, LW
    UFA - 1
    $2,350,000$2,350,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    $11,000,000$11,000,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 7
    $8,250,000$8,250,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 6
    $925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
    LW
    UFA - 2
    $925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,650,000$3M)
    C, RW
    UFA - 2
    $3,975,000$3,975,000
    RW, LW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    $1,750,000$1,750,000
    C, RW, LW
    UFA - 1
    $962,500$962,500
    C, LW
    UFA - 1
    $850,000$850,000
    LW
    UFA - 1
    $4,700,000$4,700,000
    LW, C
    UFA - 1
    $2,350,000$2,350,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 2
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    $894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
    LD
    UFA - 1
    $4,500,000$4,500,000
    LD/RD
    UFA - 5
    $2,750,000$2,750,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    $1,150,000$1,150,000
    LD, LW
    UFA - 3
    $5,000,000$5,000,000
    RD
    UFA - 2
    $2,500,000$2,500,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    $1,750,000$1,750,000
    LD
    UFA - 2
    $863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$400,000$400K)
    LD/RD
    UFA - 1
    $2,345,000$2,345,000
    RD
    UFA - 2

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    May 7, 2018 at 12:47 p.m.
    #1
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    I agree it is definitely doable but I don't see it happening when we have Couts and Patrick down the middle and there is no reason to give up assets for a chance to talk to him before July 1. He will hit the market if he doesn't want to stay in Long Island.
    May 7, 2018 at 1:03 p.m.
    #2
    NateElder12
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    that's just a massive overpay for one extra year of term if it's only dropping the AAV to $11M. Maybe one prospect like you have but the drafts picks are overkill. It's definitely possible to afford him honestly i agree so it's confusing as to why people are so reluctant to try for him if possible. Now if he is saying he wants $11M+ on a 7 year deal and $9M on an 8 year deal then I'd definitely consider what you proposed at least.
    May 7, 2018 at 1:29 p.m.
    #3
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    Quoting: NateElder12
    that's just a massive overpay for one extra year of term if it's only dropping the AAV to $11M. Maybe one prospect like you have but the drafts picks are overkill. It's definitely possible to afford him honestly i agree so it's confusing as to why people are so reluctant to try for him if possible. Now if he is saying he wants $11M+ on a 7 year deal and $9M on an 8 year deal then I'd definitely consider what you proposed at least.


    So you'd pay him 77M to play with you for the rest of his career, in seven installments, or 72M over eight payments? I ain't no mathematician, but....

    Aside from getting your point that you think longer term deals always go with reduced cap hits to help out a team, can I point out that this the potentially the best UFA season since Scott Stevens? A sign and trade is different from the trade for rights DD is discussing:
    Quoting: DirtyDangles
    I agree it is definitely doable but I don't see it happening when we have Couts and Patrick down the middle and there is no reason to give up assets for a chance to talk to him before July 1. He will hit the market if he doesn't want to stay in Long Island.


    Here is an explanation from a respectable hockey news source: https://www.tsn.ca/insider-trading-sign-and-trade-possible-for-tavares-1.1028621

    Basically, now that a UFA's old team can write him an 8yr deal, assuming there is, indeed, a limit to the annual cap hit that any team will give a player (even if it's just the one in the rulebook) then a player seeking to maximize earnings will sign an eight year deal to make more total dollars (not to mention that it can then be more front loaded, so they get more money right away). If the eight year deal Tavares wants is at a higher number than the Isles feel they can afford, they have a choice between (a) thumbing their noses at him about that lost eighth year as he plays seven years against them, possibly for a division rival or (b) getting something back, by sitting down with Tavares and the team he wants to play for, and making a trade.

    If Snow is not stupid, and I understand you may have to suspend disbelief a bit here, he's then in a situation where he's got a proven #1 center he has to trade within the next month. Teams might lowball him a little bit, but he's not giving him away for free, either.

    Under no circumstance is Tavares viewing the eighth year of his contract as such a special treat that he'll accept less total value to get it over a longer amount of time. That means that in the last year he earns negative five million dollars. But you get that, right?
    May 7, 2018 at 1:36 p.m.
    #4
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    Quoting: Eli
    So you'd pay him 77M to play with you for the rest of his career, in seven installments, or 72M over eight payments? I ain't no mathematician, but....

    Aside from getting your point that you think longer term deals always go with reduced cap hits to help out a team, can I point out that this the potentially the best UFA season since Scott Stevens? A sign and trade is different from the trade for rights DD is discussing:

    Here is an explanation from a respectable hockey news source: https://www.tsn.ca/insider-trading-sign-and-trade-possible-for-tavares-1.1028621

    Basically, now that a UFA's old team can write him an 8yr deal, assuming there is, indeed, a limit to the annual cap hit that any team will give a player (even if it's just the one in the rulebook) then a player seeking to maximize earnings will sign an eight year deal to make more total dollars (not to mention that it can then be more front loaded, so they get more money right away). If the eight year deal Tavares wants is at a higher number than the Isles feel they can afford, they have a choice between (a) thumbing their noses at him about that lost eighth year as he plays seven years against them, possibly for a division rival or (b) getting something back, by sitting down with Tavares and the team he wants to play for, and making a trade.

    If Snow is not stupid, and I understand you may have to suspend disbelief a bit here, he's then in a situation where he's got a proven #1 center he has to trade within the next month. Teams might lowball him a little bit, but he's not giving him away for free, either.

    Under no circumstance is Tavares viewing the eighth year of his contract as such a special treat that he'll accept less total value to get it over a longer amount of time. That means that in the last year he earns negative five million dollars. But you get that, right?


    I understand and that is all fine and good but I highly doubt Hextall would even consider giving up 1 1st let alone 2 and another former 1st round pick when we have our 1A/1B center for the foreseeable future.
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    May 7, 2018 at 1:43 p.m.
    #5
    alwaysnextyear
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    I agree with your premise that Snow (and any other GM in his situation) would be incredibly smart to try for a sign-and-trade if they think there's a decent chance their asset walks for nothing. It would definitely get them back a significant package of assets. The problem is in evaluating what that return would be, because this type of trade just doesn't seem to happen in hockey like it does in basketball.
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    May 7, 2018 at 1:44 p.m.
    #6
    NateElder12
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    Quoting: Eli
    So you'd pay him 77M to play with you for the rest of his career, in seven installments, or 72M over eight payments? I ain't no mathematician, but....

    Aside from getting your point that you think longer term deals always go with reduced cap hits to help out a team, can I point out that this the potentially the best UFA season since Scott Stevens? A sign and trade is different from the trade for rights DD is discussing:

    Here is an explanation from a respectable hockey news source: https://www.tsn.ca/insider-trading-sign-and-trade-possible-for-tavares-1.1028621

    Basically, now that a UFA's old team can write him an 8yr deal, assuming there is, indeed, a limit to the annual cap hit that any team will give a player (even if it's just the one in the rulebook) then a player seeking to maximize earnings will sign an eight year deal to make more total dollars (not to mention that it can then be more front loaded, so they get more money right away). If the eight year deal Tavares wants is at a higher number than the Isles feel they can afford, they have a choice between (a) thumbing their noses at him about that lost eighth year as he plays seven years against them, possibly for a division rival or (b) getting something back, by sitting down with Tavares and the team he wants to play for, and making a trade.

    If Snow is not stupid, and I understand you may have to suspend disbelief a bit here, he's then in a situation where he's got a proven #1 center he has to trade within the next month. Teams might lowball him a little bit, but he's not giving him away for free, either.

    Under no circumstance is Tavares viewing the eighth year of his contract as such a special treat that he'll accept less total value to get it over a longer amount of time. That means that in the last year he earns negative five million dollars. But you get that, right?


    dude what are you talking about? He signed for $11M at 8 years in the above deal. That's $88M over 8 years. So yes I'd rather pay $77M over 7. That's why i said if the sign/trade and giving him an 8 year deal reduced the price to $9 ish then sign me up. Otherwise, it's pointless to give up any assets just to get an extra year with no reduced cost. i think you read what i wrote backwards haha. You're comparing the 77 to 72 when you should be comparing the $88M (deal above) to $77M (if he hits FA).
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    May 7, 2018 at 2:04 p.m.
    #7
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    Quoting: alwaysnextyear
    I agree with your premise that Snow (and any other GM in his situation) would be incredibly smart to try for a sign-and-trade if they think there's a decent chance their asset walks for nothing. It would definitely get them back a significant package of assets. The problem is in evaluating what that return would be, because this type of trade just doesn't seem to happen in hockey like it does in basketball.



    Great point. For a non-basketball fan who wouldn't understand simple examples if you showed me five of them, do sign and trade deals bring back as much as trades of guys currently on fair contracts? If not, about what percentage off?

    Thanks!


    Quoting: NateElder12
    dude what are you talking about? He signed for $11M at 8 years in the above deal. That's $88M over 8 years. So yes I'd rather pay $77M over 7. That's why i said if the sign/trade and giving him an 8 year deal reduced the price to $9 ish then sign me up. Otherwise, it's pointless to give up any assets just to get an extra year with no reduced cost. i think you read what i wrote backwards haha. You're comparing the 77 to 72 when you should be comparing the $88M (deal above) to $77M (if he hits FA).


    Whoooo boy....


    Lesseee here. Are you paying me to teach you to count? No.

    No, you are not.
    May 7, 2018 at 2:14 p.m.
    #8
    alwaysnextyear
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    Quoting: Eli
    Great point. For a non-basketball fan who wouldn't understand simple examples if you showed me five of them, do sign and trade deals bring back as much as trades of guys currently on fair contracts? If not, about what percentage off?

    Thanks!

    Haha, I'm not an NBA expert either unfortunately. But I do know these types of deals happen with more frequency in that league.




    Whoooo boy....


    Lesseee here. Are you paying me to teach you to count? No.

    No, you are not.
    May 7, 2018 at 2:15 p.m.
    #9
    NateElder12
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    @Eli

    lol you're not making any sense.. You don't agree that paying him $77M over 7 OR $72M over 8 is better than the $88M over 8 that is reflected above. I said giving up picks and prospects for $72M over 8 is fine with me, but giving up all of those picks and then a prospect but still paying $88M over 8 just seems like a massive overpayment. Sorry that i just can't agree with you on that man.
    May 10, 2018 at 3:20 p.m.
    #10
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    Quoting: Eli
    Great point. For a non-basketball fan who wouldn't understand simple examples if you showed me five of them, do sign and trade deals bring back as much as trades of guys currently on fair contracts? If not, about what percentage off?

    Thanks!

    Whoooo boy....

    Lesseee here. Are you paying me to teach you to count? No.

    No, you are not.


    The amount traded for him was just a guess. Tavares will want 8 years, at least that's my guess, no matter where he plays, he will want that 8th year. So to do that he either needs to be traded before July 1st, or signed by the NYI and then traded. So if I were GM of the NYI, I would want a haul to send him to any team, and to a division rival, yes, it would cost more. Its just hard to gauge what the asking price would be.

    Quoting: NateElder12
    @Eli

    lol you're not making any sense.. You don't agree that paying him $77M over 7 OR $72M over 8 is better than the $88M over 8 that is reflected above. I said giving up picks and prospects for $72M over 8 is fine with me, but giving up all of those picks and then a prospect but still paying $88M over 8 just seems like a massive overpayment. Sorry that i just can't agree with you on that man.


    You are looking at total $$$ and thinking the GM can decide if he wants to give that to him over 7 or 8 years, if Tavares demands 8 years, and wants lets say 88 mil, thats what you get, if he only wants 7 years, and 77 mil, then you see if you can trade for him, add that 8th year, and see if you can still keep it at 77 mil. I just dont see him signing for less then 10.5mil no matter how many years he is signed for.


    Quoting: alwaysnextyear
    I agree with your premise that Snow (and any other GM in his situation) would be incredibly smart to try for a sign-and-trade if they think there's a decent chance their asset walks for nothing. It would definitely get them back a significant package of assets. The problem is in evaluating what that return would be, because this type of trade just doesn't seem to happen in hockey like it does in basketball.


    The value of the return IMO would be:
    X for Western Conference team
    X+Y for Non-division Eastern conference team
    X+Y+Z for divisional team.

    But who the hell knows what that team is thinking at this point. I am sure the closer to July 1st it gets, the more they will panic.
    Eli liked this.
    May 10, 2018 at 6:45 p.m.
    #11
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    Quoting: Redbeard53
    The amount traded for him was just a guess. Tavares will want 8 years, at least that's my guess, no matter where he plays, he will want that 8th year. So to do that he either needs to be traded before July 1st, or signed by the NYI and then traded. So if I were GM of the NYI, I would want a haul to send him to any team, and to a division rival, yes, it would cost more. Its just hard to gauge what the asking price would be.



    You are looking at total $$$ and thinking the GM can decide if he wants to give that to him over 7 or 8 years, if Tavares demands 8 years, and wants lets say 88 mil, thats what you get, if he only wants 7 years, and 77 mil, then you see if you can trade for him, add that 8th year, and see if you can still keep it at 77 mil. I just dont see him signing for less then 10.5mil no matter how many years he is signed for.




    The value of the return IMO would be:
    X for Western Conference team
    X+Y for Non-division Eastern conference team
    X+Y+Z for divisional team.

    But who the hell knows what that team is thinking at this point. I am sure the closer to July 1st it gets, the more they will panic.


    A: Yep.
    B: Yep.
    C: this pricing plan might be in their best interest, but it is open to the possibility of a West Coast team acting as middleman, especially after Brassard.
    D: Yep.
    Redbeard53 liked this.
    May 22, 2018 at 10:00 a.m.
    #12
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    Quoting: Eli
    A: Yep.
    B: Yep.
    C: this pricing plan might be in their best interest, but it is open to the possibility of a West Coast team acting as middleman, especially after Brassard.
    D: Yep.


    Unelss his agent, at ten percent, really has his eye on an 8.8M castle in Singapore, in which case 77M over any term just isn't going to get him there.
    Jul. 3, 2018 at 9:53 a.m.
    #13
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    Quoting: Eli
    Unelss his agent, at ten percent, really has his eye on an 8.8M castle in Singapore, in which case 77M over any term just isn't going to get him there.


    Well, I was right about the cap hit.....wrong about which team. lol
    Eli liked this.
    Jul. 3, 2018 at 10:04 a.m.
    #14
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    Quoting: Redbeard53
    Well, I was right about the cap hit.....wrong about which team. lol


    I know the feeling. I totally called Beagle at 3M for long term, but I predicted he'd go to Buffalo.

    Should have read the tea leaves in Nic Dowd's zone starts, but nobody sees all the numbers. We just read enough to get an impression and compare that to our observations and.......

    Well done on calling Tavares at 77. Wonder if I got it right on Singapore. Probably not. Pretty strict place.
    Redbeard53 liked this.
     
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