Five stars for trading O'Reilly
I think all of the trades are fair. I am happy to see that you are giving decent value to Bogosian, most trades only trade him for a 6th. The Skinner trade is a fair exchange, is Carolina in a rebuild? Beaulieu for Hagelin I think is very possible.
If you could get Fabri, Kyrou and a 1st for O'Reilly that would be a great trade.

Wait are you saying McKenzie proposed this trade?

It looks interesting. Of course confuses health Fabbri, and what we are trading ROR for the future, but it is interesting.

If you could get Fabri, Kyrou and a 1st for O'Reilly that would be a great trade.

Wait are you saying McKenzie proposed this trade?[/quote]


On his podcast today he said that GMBOT is looking for a similar deal to the Richards to LA deal when he was 26. ROR is similar type player PHI got back B Schenn a top 5 prospect in league at time an Simmonds along wih 2 nd round pick. I think this STL is pretty close to that

Blues say no. ROR is very similar to Stastny so Blues are better off trying to resign him than trade futures for a 2c

This looks really good.

Say, there is an expansion game. Would you like to join as DET or ARZ. It has a bunch of players acting as gm's and expanding. Care to join?

Sorry didnt see this. If its still available I’ll take Arizona.

As a Blues fan I like this.

You win the trade if the giant Fabs question mark works, if not you still get a first and our top offensive prospect, so not like unfair. Meanwhile STL gets a known commodity with term to fill a roster gap.

ROR plays central division hockey.

Also, as I’ve said here for years, BUF is my 2nd team. Y’all gonna wreck soon enough.

ROR is nothing like Stastny. ROR is much more 2-way, like Toews-lite, where Stastny was an average playmaking 1C...somebody who tried to play Tavares’ game and wasn’t nearly good enough.

thanks i think its fair since you guys get the best player in the trade but we still get some peices back for the future. With Casey Mittelstadt likely tomtake the #2 C spot in 1-2 years there no sense in us keeping and paying ROR on third line for 7.5 mil. STL needs a C and is in more of a win now mode with Tarasenkon and Pietrangelo in their primes while BUF needs younger skilled players to surround Eichel and Dahlin with.

Exactly: it’s a great age fit for both teams and while STL does get the sure thing in ROR, the pieces going the other way all offer RFA control for years.

With Eichel, Middelstadt, and Reinhart you center depth is top tier for a decade. Add Risto and Dahlin on the backend...so good.

I have a really strong feeling something like this will happen: just fits both clubs objectives so well while not screwing each other over.

And given Reinharts play in the 2nd half of this season...

I was at Buf Stl in STL sometime in the winter and remember thinking “why is everybody giving this dude ****” because he made tons of plays behind our net and was so solid. Also I think Eichel raged out after we won in OT and wrecked his stick on the net :P

I’m fully on your damn bandwagon when you’re good in a year or two - your announcer is the best and your fan base is loyal af.

Stastny is a 2-way center who the Blues tried to force to be a Tavares like center. But since he's not that, he didn't work with Tarasenko very well. Stastny has always been a 2-way guy.

Ok.

That is why Colorado used him on their 1st scoring line and PP1 when he was putting up 78 points in 82 games, 71 points in 66 games, 79 points in 81 games, etc.

He was used and was successful as a playmaking center while being protected as a young skater. As Colorado exposed him to tougher and tougher minutes, he did not continue to excel above the competition, but was more than serviceable.

STL thought that would transition to Hitch's heavy fore-check system and it did not, because Stastny lacks the playmaking ability to overcome Central Division match-ups in the role of 1C when the line-up protection is gone, and Stastny was relegated to the heavy 2-way game which he was not known for, his body is not built for, and did not excel at.

Paul Stastny has not always been a 2-way guy (relative to using that term to describe actual 2-way centers such as the top 10 Selke candidates year in year out), and is not particularly good at it (relative to the elite competition of the NHL). He is nowhere near tough or consistent enough to play that game (for 82 games of a regular season and playoffs). I'm prefacing all of this because he is obviously very good at hockey, but he has never been good enough with his stick to take the puck away consistently, he is nowhere near fast or conditioned enough to cover both sides of the ice, and he is not good enough with his body to separate the puck from the opposition. For his time in STL he was just a skilled guy on the ice filling a role that his body and play style did not fit. Stupid to blame him - blame Hitch for his system, or Yeo for not escaping from it fast enough, if you think blame needs to be cast. But regardless, Stastny is, and would have been much more effective if used in an offensive based system as a playmaking center, not used as a 2-way plug on a forecheck heavy defensive minded club in a physical division.

TL;DR: if Stastny were a natural 2-way center as you’ve stated, then why did he not even land 40th on Selke ballots over 12 of his NHL seasons, including many on a stacked perineal playoff contender. The rhetorical answer is, because he is not a 2-way center. He’s just a guy who was forced into that role because his coach forced a style which demanded that - and in that time he was so poor at the role that he was not even acknowledged as being adequate at it.

If you compare him to actual 2-way guys like ROR who are good at taking the puck back, separating players from the puck, and playing in front of both nets, you will see why you are mistaken.

You can be a 2 way center and not be in the 10 delle nominees year end year out. Very few players can do that. Hitch had a heavy Trocheck, but it was a defense first system. Stastny is still a 2 way center. Is he one did the top defensive centers? No. Again, very few players are. Stastny had the great playmaking ability as well as being a very good defensive center. Defensively he was fine for the Blues. He couldn't do it offensively because you can't force chemistry on players. That's why he's a solid 2 C, not a 1 c. The problem with Stastny is he's older now in a league full of young speedsters. Just because he's not a top 10 center, doesnt mean he isn't a 2 way center. ROR is a solid defender as well, but he has struggled the last several years as well. That's why Colorado was willing to let him go.

You understand the term 2-way center yes? It is an actual set of attributes which define performance: The ability to control play through both offensive ability and defensive ability. You cannot be a 2-way center if you are not at least average at offense and defense. If you are pretty good offensively and replacement level defensively, you are not a 2-way center because your coach puts you in that role. A 2-way center has to be able to pressure the puck consistently and play in-front of both nets. That is just what they have to do to get that title.

It would be like calling a slow person fast because you make them run all the time. They may be running, but they are still slow.

I mean, think about it - STL has had one of the most successful defensive systems in the salary cap era - and STL's "2-way center" received essentially 0 recognition for 2-way play. How is that possible? He isn't a 2-way center. That is how.

ROR also left Colorado after an Avalanche (heh) of drama rumors surrounding multiple contract negotiations - Colorado was not willing to let him go - https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/nhl-rumors-might-avs-ryan-oreilly-be-staying-in-khl-longer/

ROR wanted to go.

Stastny fills both of those requirements for a 2-way center. If you can't see that, maybe you need to watch a little more of Stastny play. Again, he wasn't an elite center by any stretch (neither is O'Reilly by the way) but both are solid 2-way centers. At this point in their careers respectively, ROR is the more effective player. In part because he is younger. But getting him would just be like getting Stastny several years ago. It won't make a difference. Blues only hope Thomas can be that Bergeron/Couturier type of player. Will he is the question. And even though Plus/Minus isn't everything, if you're a negative player year in and year out, chances are you're not that great defensively. ROR was a positive player once in his career. That's pretty telling especially since he puts up decent offensive numbers. I've watched him play, he's not that much better than Stastny at this point in his career. He's a 2C at best just like Stastny. He wouldn't make that big of a difference on the Blues

Stastny played essentially 0 Short handed ice time the past 5 years = not 2 way

Stastny was brought in for more offensive draws than defensive draws the past 5 years = not 2 way

Stastny has very few body checks per season = not 2 way

Stastny has very few take aways relative to ice time per season = not 2 way

Stastny not recognized at anytime as a defensive forward for league awards which he could have been a 40th place vote getter which I would count and he wasn't = not 2 way

Stastny not profficient at blocking shots = not 2 way

Paul Stastny played 18-21 minutes every single night. Show me one way that he was even equal to a replacement level skater at defense, which is HALF of a "2-way" skater". You can't, because he isn't a 2-way skater as you said "he always was".

He wasn't "always" a 2-way skater (never was, and is not today). Colorado used him as a 1-way offensive playmaker and he thrived. I proved that.

Your original statement is that ROR is just a Stastny replacement because they are the same player.

You.

Are.

Wrong.

Stastny's inability to be a 2-way player as Hitch used him was covered by Backes who WAS a Selke WINNER.

ROR is a Backes replacement, not a Stastny replacement. You don't understand.

I guarantee you are too busy on STL Blues facebook raging about Berglund to reply. Doesn't matter. You don't understand hockey. A player isn't a 2-way player because you type it. There is a set list of things a 2-way player needs to at least be adequate at. Stastny was BAD at ALL of those things. BAD. So bad that the best defensive team in the league couldn't get him a ******* 40th place in the league nomination for the ******* award. He is BAD at defense. That is why he is a "later bro" UFA center on a team who REALLY needs a center.

Or **** it, I can take your logic and type "Fabbri is a 2-way center and we dont need ROR".

It doesn't matter than Fabbri isn't a 2-way skater.

Or that he isn't a center.

Or that he didnt even ******* play last year.

If I type hes a 2-way center then he is, based on your logic.

So we don't need ROR.

Go back to facebook. Go back to just typing Berglund sucks and getting your likes.

He did play on the penalty kill. Averaged over a minute in fact (ROR only 1:33 this year) and averaged over a 1:30 last season, did take defensive zone draws, especially towards the end of the game.
He took more offensive zone draws because the Blues put him on a line with Tarasenko and they had literally No one else to win draws!

Stastny was used at both ends of the ice. Yeah, Backes (not a winner. Selke finalist)was great to have there as another solid two way guy.
And if you actually watched Stastny you would see how good he was as a two-way guy. Hitch used him effectively as both. Yeo couldn't because he wanted him to be offense only.

You are right that in his first year he was used as more of an offensive guy. But that quickly changed because he had to adapt and he did! ROR isn't a Backes replacement. He'd be replacing Stastny. Actually, Stastny was morw acknowledged for his defensive game than his offense game here. Did you not watch? The one thing he did excel at here was helping out in his own end. He's not the best 2-way guy. That much is true, but he is a 2 way guy. To not acknowledge what he can do defensively is ludicrous.
Besides, really effective 2-way guys aren't a career -50 like ROR has been. Again, not saying Stastny is better than ROR at this point, but that's who ROR is replacing. You can disagree with that if you want, but if you look at Stastny's game, he is effective at both ends of the ice, with or without the puck.

And I wouldn't call ROR proficient at blocking shots. He's okay. Stastny had 38 this season and stayed around that number the last couple seasons despite missing chunks of time with injury. He may not have had the most takeaways, but he didn't give up the puck much either. He still had over 40 takeaways again. But having a two way style also requires being smart with the puck in your own end which he was. Again, he's not an elite center by any means. He's not in my top 20. But he is a two-way 200 foot center. At this point in his career he isn't nearly as effective.

I was wrong about Backes winning a Selke versus running up. Memorial cup beers beating me up.

But there is absolutely no defensive category where you can say "Stastny was average here". Not good, not above average, not even average.

Paul Stastny is bad at the defensive side of hockey based on the 14 years of career stats.

You can corsica.hockey any selke nominee and look at how Stastny is not in the same league over any stat over even his best year.

You can't just type "2-way player" and have it be true. There has to be some evidence. Some number.

I've held Blues season tickets for awhile...I've watched the games.

ROR is not a Paul Stastny replacement as you've typed. That just is not true.

He would fill the same ice time, but he's substantially better at the measurable defensive stats than Paul was while on one of the leagues worst defensive teams while Paul was atrocious on one of the leagues best defensive teams.

And by your argument every player is a 200 foot player, because you don't need any evidence to make the claim. Jaskin is a 200 foot 2-way center. So is Bouwemeister. So is Allen. I am a 200-foot center. It doesn't matter. If you can't provide any one thing to back it up besides just saying it then I can just say it about anything too.

No team is going to trade picks to take on the very costly Bogosian. Skinner isn't worth that in a trade. First that could be a lottery pick and IMO that's way too much money to offer him. Can't you wait a year and sign a UFA for that money and keep those valuable picks.

Let's see, I provided the fact he does play penalty killing minutes, he does takeaway pucks without giving them up. He's on the ice way more for goals for than goals against. So yeah, no evidence whatsoever.

I'm not saying he's an elite talent, but he is a two way center. Helps out in all areas, PK, PP, EV. Takes pucks away, doesnt give them up. He does block shots as evidenced by his numbers the last few years. But yeah, no evidence. What evidence have you given that proves he isn't? 78 points in his rookie season, That's it. Hitchcock applauded his two-way style in St. Louis. Again, Stastny was never an elite two way center which is what you seem to think i mean. I don't think he's an elite talent anymore. But he is a two way center by definition. Plays both ends, wins Faceoffs, plays PP, PK, takes pucks away and doesn't turn them over, and blocks shots. That's an overall game.

Take your evidence.

Compare it to any player you consider a 2-way player.

Pick any of them.

He plays paultry PK minutes, and did not do so until Backes left.

His takeaways are tiny relative to actual 2-way skaters.

He doesn't block shots, doesn't matter what you type.

He is not a 2-way skater.

Go back to facebook and berglund rants.

A) Don't even have facebook nor have I gone on a manor Berglund rant.
B) He still plays a 2-way style and while looking at the numbers help the cause, actually watching him play will yield the same results.
C) As he ages he's playing less. So while he's not playing as much, he still plays effectively.

Actually watch a full game and watch him away from the puck, and you'll notice he does all the little things right defensively which adds up to a bigger outcome. You're equating 2-way style and "perennial 2-way" play as the same thing. I am not. He's not Bergeron, Kopitar, Barkov or close to the level of elite two way players. But he is in fact a two way player himself.

no he doesn't, which is why hes a UFA without a team.

You said he always played a 2-way style, I proved he didn't, you just kept typing.

You said he is a 2-way player, I provided every single last quantifiable way to prove it which he is miserable at, you just kept typing.

And you will just keep typing.

MAGA?

Doesn't matter.