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Forums/Armchair-GM

NYI STL fans in here.

Created by: bjprice
Team: 2018-19 St. Louis Blues
Initial Creation Date: Jun. 5, 2018
Published: Jun. 5, 2018
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Lets assume JT91 hits the market.

Fine.

But if he is to hit the market, chances are NYI will do whatever they can to get something in return.

Send TT to NYI? He's got fam in the org. He's semi redundant with Kyrou and Kostin coming of age within 24 months.

What do STL fans accept in return? A pre-condition of a conversation with JT91's agent and a list of requirements to sign? If those requirements are meet-able, do you make this transaction or let another team have the chance first?

If that were the case, STL and NYI fans, do you hate/love this?

That's a big body and a 1st round pick with a scary shot for the rights to a top 5 center.

Doubt any suitor for JT91 can beat a 21 year old 1st rounder with NHL experience.
Trades
STL
    Rights to UFA John Tavares
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2018
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    2019
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    2020
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    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    17$75,000,000$57,407,655$150,988$265,000$17,592,345
    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    $5,750,000$5,750,000
    LW, RW, C
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    $5,125,000$5,125,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 2
    $3,750,000$3,750,000
    RW
    UFA - 5
    $5,350,000$5,350,000
    LW
    UFA - 3
    $3,850,000$3,850,000
    C, LW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 4
    $900,000$900,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 1
    $3,500,000$3,500,000
    LW, C
    UFA - 2
    $842,500$842,500 (Performance Bonus$82,500$82K)
    C
    UFA - 1
    $741,667$741,667
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    $5,400,000$5,400,000
    LD
    NTC
    UFA - 1
    $6,500,000$6,500,000
    RD
    NTC
    UFA - 2
    $4,350,000$4,350,000
    G
    UFA - 3
    $2,900,000$2,900,000
    LD
    UFA - 1
    $5,500,000$5,500,000
    RD
    UFA - 4
    $722,500$722,500 (Performance Bonus$182,500$182K)
    LD/RD
    UFA - 2
    $1,150,000$1,150,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    $925,000$925,000
    RD
    UFA - 1

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    Jun. 5, 2018 at 5:07 p.m.
    #1
    Lets Go Blues
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    Teams can't talk to JT before July 1 without getting his rights though right? If NYI shops his rights and we pay up with Thompson (I'd even toss Jake Allen in to give them a starter), what happens if JT already made his mind up and was going to sign in San Jose or Colorado or somewhere? That's the snag IMO. If we were to get any indication that JT would want to play here for 7 years, I'd easily toss Tage and whoever else out there to lock him in. Might save some money over his open market price as well. I just don't think that's how it will play out. For NYI sake, they would be smart to get JT's opinion (and I guess since he has a NTC they would have to get his blessing) but I'm legit not sure if it's possible.
    MoreOfAnIslesGuy liked this.
    Jun. 5, 2018 at 5:09 p.m.
    #2
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    bjprice
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    Quoting: A_K
    Teams can't talk to JT before July 1 without getting his rights though right? If NYI shops his rights and we pay up with Thompson (I'd even toss Jake Allen in to give them a starter), what happens if JT already made his mind up and was going to sign in San Jose or Colorado or somewhere? That's the snag IMO. If we were to get any indication that JT would want to play here for 7 years, I'd easily toss Tage and whoever else out there to lock him in. Might save some money over his open market price as well. I just don't think that's how it will play out. For NYI sake, they would be smart to get JT's opinion (and I guess since he has a NTC they would have to get his blessing) but I'm legit not sure if it's possible.


    Ya I'd think DA would have to condition the deal on getting the agent to state what the requirements are, and if they include something STL can meet. If JT91 has no interest here we wouldn't do it - but if the requirements are only contractual - say he wants XYZ in signing bonus, XYZ in term and salary, and GMDA thinks we can make that happen, then is it worth TT to beat out MTL, SJS, etc.
    Jun. 5, 2018 at 5:09 p.m.
    #3
    Isles For Life
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    Why would we shop Johnny T's rights? I mean, he's a super solid player and generally not someone to shop, and now that he's publicly saying he's very interested in talks with NY, and with Snow gone and Lou in charge I seriously doubt T's gone. I think the JT hype is over and he stays here. Just saying.
    Jun. 5, 2018 at 5:13 p.m.
    #4
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    I wouldn't do that from the Blues perspective. If JT is going to be hitting the market, then he is more than likely going to field options from multiple teams no matter what. Trading a recent 1st round pick and one of the only RHS prospects we have just to talk to him a little earlier is too much of a risk.

    Even with adding JT to the lineup, the blues are still going to be looking for a top6 RW and Kostin/TT + 2018 1st could be the start for that player. A better option for the blues would be to use TT + 1st for RW help and then pitch JT that he will be the "missing piece" we need to really compete.

    If we were to receive a requirements list and fulfilling it meant he was almost certain to sign, then I would make the trade as a sign of good faith to JT about how much we wanted him, but just to increase the time we can talk to him by a couple weeks isn't worth that risk.
    Jun. 5, 2018 at 5:13 p.m.
    #5
    Lets Go Blues
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    Quoting: bjprice
    Ya I'd think DA would have to condition the deal on getting the agent to state what the requirements are, and if they include something STL can meet. If JT91 has no interest here we wouldn't do it - but if the requirements are only contractual - say he wants XYZ in signing bonus, XYZ in term and salary, and GMDA thinks we can make that happen, then is it worth TT to beat out MTL, SJS, etc.


    Right, that's the part that I don't know whether is legal or not... but it's definitely in JT's best interest to hit the open market (more money, go where he wants), so if NYI isn't going to re-sign him, not sure if he'd want to do them any favors. Plus he'd be crippling the team that he is joining if he gets traded. That said, he has an 8-team no-trade list so I guess it's not completely up to him.
    Jun. 5, 2018 at 5:23 p.m.
    #6
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    bjprice
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    Quoting: MoreOfAnIslesGuy
    Why would we shop Johnny T's rights? I mean, he's a super solid player and generally not someone to shop, and now that he's publicly saying he's very interested in talks with NY, and with Snow gone and Lou in charge I seriously doubt T's gone. I think the JT hype is over and he stays here. Just saying.


    This is just a purely hypothetical as a result of reading this: https://mynhltraderumors.com/top-10-potential-offseason-nhl-trade-candidates/2018/06/05/

    See number 1.

    The hypothetical is that NYI (you) will trade his rights. I understand there are a million reasons this wouldn't happen. But just assuming it does in this case...How would you feel about receiving Tage Thompson in return?
    Jun. 5, 2018 at 5:25 p.m.
    #7
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    bjprice
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    Quoting: A_K
    Right, that's the part that I don't know whether is legal or not... but it's definitely in JT's best interest to hit the open market (more money, go where he wants), so if NYI isn't going to re-sign him, not sure if he'd want to do them any favors. Plus he'd be crippling the team that he is joining if he gets traded. That said, he has an 8-team no-trade list so I guess it's not completely up to him.


    I'd imagine Doug Armstrong would tell Lam to put the agent on the call and require that before making the deal. Lou would have no standing to drive up a market without letting teams talk to the agent to determine if a signing were possible I do not believe - I cannot believe any GM would send a 1st rounder for a complete ?

    The only reason Lou would prevent teams from talking to the agent is if Lou knew that JT had only 1 team in mind.
    Jun. 5, 2018 at 5:40 p.m.
    #8
    Isles For Life
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    Quoting: bjprice
    This is just a purely hypothetical as a result of reading this: https://mynhltraderumors.com/top-10-potential-offseason-nhl-trade-candidates/2018/06/05/

    See number 1.

    The hypothetical is that NYI (you) will trade his rights. I understand there are a million reasons this wouldn't happen. But just assuming it does in this case...How would you feel about receiving Tage Thompson in return?


    Lou knows we need young talent, and Tage is definitely that but I feel like JT could receive a little more. In this hypothetical we wouldn't have much leverage, true, but maybe a Kyrou would make more sense imho (unless Lou is looking for an immediate roster skill boost.)
    Jun. 5, 2018 at 5:52 p.m.
    #9
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    bjprice
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    Quoting: MoreOfAnIslesGuy
    Lou knows we need young talent, and Tage is definitely that but I feel like JT could receive a little more. In this hypothetical we wouldn't have much leverage, true, but maybe a Kyrou would make more sense imho (unless Lou is looking for an immediate roster skill boost.)


    As a STL fan I'd do either, although I think Tage has a much higher ceiling - Kyrou was OHL mvp as a 4th year - I personally doubt many GMs value him highly.

    100% as a STL fan who makes a list of "NHL impact next 2 seasons" my prospect list for our team is:

    Thomas

    Thompson

    Mikkola

    Kostin

    Walman/Husso - depending on who gets opportunity.

    Kyrou doesn't make the list. 4th year OHL dominators are a coin flip.
    MoreOfAnIslesGuy liked this.
    Jun. 5, 2018 at 9:35 p.m.
    #10
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    Quoting: bjprice
    As a STL fan I'd do either, although I think Tage has a much higher ceiling - Kyrou was OHL mvp as a 4th year - I personally doubt many GMs value him highly.

    100% as a STL fan who makes a list of "NHL impact next 2 seasons" my prospect list for our team is:

    Thomas

    Thompson

    Mikkola

    Kostin

    Walman/Husso - depending on who gets opportunity.

    Kyrou doesn't make the list. 4th year OHL dominators are a coin flip.


    Kyrou is still highly regarded, even though your point of 4th year OHL players is true. Kostin has a higher ceiling than Thompson.
    Jun. 6, 2018 at 2:42 a.m.
    #11
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    Quoting: BluesGetTheCup
    Kyrou is still highly regarded, even though your point of 4th year OHL players is true. Kostin has a higher ceiling than Thompson.


    Let’s not forget he had 94 points the year before. It’s not like he just blew up this year.
    Jun. 6, 2018 at 9:25 a.m.
    #12
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    bjprice
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    Quoting: StLHockey
    Let’s not forget he had 94 points the year before. It’s not like he just blew up this year.


    True!

    I thinks he’s firmly in the “mid to late 1st round” value - a bargain at #35. But we can look at what guys beyond the 10th OA do for their NHL career and the vast majority are unsuccessful.

    You look @ a guy like Ty Rattie - prolific scorer at 4th year OHL, but then left there for a 5th year...was that a poor choice? Possibly. Then add on another year of AHL - 31 goals for him that AHL season - you’d think he could net 20 at the NHL level but that never happened. Next AHL season mixed with a small call up - scored at the same rate in the AHL.

    I’d almost imagine Ty Rattie’s Lack of NHL success was a product of Hitchcock’s system - that his playstyle simply didn’t fit what Hitchcock demanded out of wingers - he was relatively slow-ish, not a guy to win board battles.

    I’m absolutely not writing Kyrou off, only thinking his chance at NHL production over the next 2 seasons is fairly low relative to those guys I think are higher. So I think today Thompson has a much higher value to an opposing GM.
    Jun. 6, 2018 at 9:36 a.m.
    #13
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    bjprice
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    Quoting: BluesGetTheCup
    Kyrou is still highly regarded, even though your point of 4th year OHL players is true. Kostin has a higher ceiling than Thompson.


    I think the coolest part for me about Kostin is that while he was pushed down the lineup quite often (nearly first 60% of last year @ Rampage), by the end of the season he was getting critical power play and ice time.

    Shows to me the kid didn’t give up and proved to coaches who literally owed him nothing that he was the best choice in those situations.

    It wouldn’t be unreasonable to think kostin starts in the Rampage’s too 6 next season and gets his chance once the Blues have some injury openings on wing. Once that happens I promise I’ll be hyped as **** for whatever games those are.

    So maybe it is unfair for me to put Thompson above him, but I think he’s going to start the season in the NHL - so measuring NHL impact over the next 2 years - he gets a bump.
    Jun. 6, 2018 at 11:04 a.m.
    #14
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    Quoting: bjprice
    I think the coolest part for me about Kostin is that while he was pushed down the lineup quite often (nearly first 60% of last year @ Rampage), by the end of the season he was getting critical power play and ice time.

    Shows to me the kid didn’t give up and proved to coaches who literally owed him nothing that he was the best choice in those situations.

    It wouldn’t be unreasonable to think kostin starts in the Rampage’s too 6 next season and gets his chance once the Blues have some injury openings on wing. Once that happens I promise I’ll be hyped as **** for whatever games those are.

    So maybe it is unfair for me to put Thompson above him, but I think he’s going to start the season in the NHL - so measuring NHL impact over the next 2 years - he gets a bump.


    Perhaps - I honestly think we trade Thompson. If he starts in the NHL next year, and struggles again, gets sent down. He'll have substantially lower trade value. He's still a big unknown with slick hands and a heavy shot right now.

    Kostin has way more grit to his game, and showed during WJC that he has a ton of skill/great shot. Tage is also like 2 years older than Kostin which is wild.
     
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