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Forums/Armchair-GM

Maybe?

Created by: zibby805
Team: 2018-19 Tampa Bay Lightning
Initial Creation Date: Jun. 27, 2018
Published: Jun. 27, 2018
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$1,000,000
2$1,000,000
2$1,000,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
8$7,500,000
Trades
1.
TBL
  1. 2019 7th round pick (NYI)
Additional Details:
Sign and Trade with Tavares?
2.
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2019
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the NYI
2020
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
2021
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
20$79,500,000$67,104,613$142,947$1,215,000$12,395,387
Left WingCentreRight Wing
$5,250,000$5,250,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 5
$8,500,000$8,500,000
LW, C
NMC
UFA - 6
$4,766,667$4,766,667
RW
UFA - 1
$5,300,000$5,300,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 4
$7,500,000$7,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 7
$686,667$686,667 (Performance Bonus$182,500$182K)
C, RW
UFA - 1
$1,000,000$1,000,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 1
$728,333$728,333 (Performance Bonus$182,500$182K)
C, LW
UFA - 2
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
$677,500$677,500
LW, C
UFA - 1
$1,000,000$1,000,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 1
$650,000$650,000
LW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
$7,875,000$7,875,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 7
$4,450,000$4,450,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
$3,500,000$3,500,000
G
UFA - 2
$4,700,000$4,700,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
$894,166$894,166 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
LD/RD
UFA - 2
$1,150,000$1,150,000
G
UFA - 2
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1

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Jun. 27, 2018 at 10:59 a.m.
#1
Tspky
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i don't think that gets tanev.

From the rangers, would you do this:

Cal Foote, Coburn, Callahan for zucc with 2 mill retained? without any other moves on the roster it would give you a little over 12 million to spend
Jun. 27, 2018 at 11:01 a.m.
#2
Banned
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You can't just dump a ton of cap on teams and not expect to pay to do so. You also need to take into account NTCs.
Jun. 27, 2018 at 11:05 a.m.
#3
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
You can't just dump a ton of cap on teams and not expect to pay to do so. You also need to take into account NTCs.


Exactly
Jun. 27, 2018 at 11:19 a.m.
#4
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Tavares with a $7.5 cap hit? Why would he take so little when other teams would give him $10+ a year? Never happen.
Jun. 27, 2018 at 11:24 a.m.
#5
SpencerTBL
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Quoting: delneggs
Tavares with a $7.5 cap hit? Why would he take so little when other teams would give him $10+ a year? Never happen.


1. I agree, 7.5 just won't happen.
2. Tampa can offer less money that leads to JT taking home more money due to income taxes (i.e. $10m in NY/TOR/etc could lead to him taking home about the same as $8.5m in Tampa).

Aside from both of these, Tampa can't sign him for 8 years anyway. NYI is the only team that is capable of doing so.
Jun. 27, 2018 at 11:31 a.m.
#6
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Quoting: SpencerTBL
1. I agree, 7.5 just won't happen.
2. Tampa can offer less money that leads to JT taking home more money due to income taxes (i.e. $10m in NY/TOR/etc could lead to him taking home about the same as $8.5m in Tampa).

Aside from both of these, Tampa can't sign him for 8 years anyway. NYI is the only team that is capable of doing so.


Lightning could do 8 yrs if there was the sign and trade done. I would see 9 AAV being the number of a comparable 10 AAV in other states, but I don't think Yzerman would pay more for Tavares than Hedman.
Jun. 27, 2018 at 11:48 a.m.
#7
SpencerTBL
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Quoting: jshherman
Lightning could do 8 yrs if there was the sign and trade done. I would see 9 AAV being the number of a comparable 10 AAV in other states, but I don't think Yzerman would pay more for Tavares than Hedman.


There has been a report out there that a sign and trade isn't an option for NYI/Lou. He's already said either he's returning to NY or he's going to walk somewhere else. See below:
https://www.tsn.ca/lamoriello-rules-out-tavares-sign-and-trade-1.1119779

If the Lightning want JT, Yzerman will 100% need to pay more for him than Hedman. Hedman took a discount to stay where he was, to play where he loved playing, and to sign for 8 years. JT will not have any of those same things going for him. There's zero chance of Tavares taking less than both Stamkos and Hedman to sign a shorter, cheaper deal for a new team.
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Jun. 27, 2018 at 11:58 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: SpencerTBL
There has been a report out there that a sign and trade isn't an option for NYI/Lou. He's already said either he's returning to NY or he's going to walk somewhere else. See below:
https://www.tsn.ca/lamoriello-rules-out-tavares-sign-and-trade-1.1119779

If the Lightning want JT, Yzerman will 100% need to pay more for him than Hedman. Hedman took a discount to stay where he was, to play where he loved playing, and to sign for 8 years. JT will not have any of those same things going for him. There's zero chance of Tavares taking less than both Stamkos and Hedman to sign a shorter, cheaper deal for a new team.


Except Tavares grew up with Stamkos and if he wants to come to TB, might need to play nice. Also, thats all well and good, but if there is a offer for NYI to get something it would be foolish vs Tavares walking away. I also don't think Tavares should sign such a long-term contract because it will not allow enough flexibility if the cup window closes or if he is no longer happy.
Jun. 27, 2018 at 1:23 p.m.
#9
SpencerTBL
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Quoting: jshherman
Except Tavares grew up with Stamkos and if he wants to come to TB, might need to play nice. Also, thats all well and good, but if there is a offer for NYI to get something it would be foolish vs Tavares walking away. I also don't think Tavares should sign such a long-term contract because it will not allow enough flexibility if the cup window closes or if he is no longer happy.


You'd also have to take into account the fact that a sign and trade for the Islanders would be devastating to the fans - and I think that's why Lou is not willing to do it. Sure, logically it makes the most sense if you know he's not coming back. But is it worth the insane backlash the team would get?

The "X Player" played with "Y Player" when they were kids/in junior/in NCAA/once at an all star game argument has been made a number of times for a number of players in the past. In reality, it ends up meaning very little to players. It may be enough to get a discount of half a million, maybe a million? But it's not enough to get him to take $7.5m in Tampa over the $10-12m he'd make in NY/TOR/SJ, even with FL's tax advantages.

With regards to him wanting to sign a shorter term deal, that doesn't make any sense for a player his age. Players of his talent level and his age want to maximize the length of their deals knowing that they're going to get paid a ton of money regardless. They want to guarantee that, if something crazy happens (career-altering injury, unexpected drop in skill, etc.) they are still going to be paid that large amount of money anyway. Injury risk inherently goes up as age increases. That's why you see so many of these long contracts "turn bad" for teams when a player ages. The players still want to be paid even though they know they're on the decline. Ultimately, players care about their/their family's future more than any hockey team's future. Say JT goes out next year and tears his ACL in the 20th game of the season, or he suffers a few concussions (both certainly reasonable possibilities). When Tavares is 35 and on the decline with a busted up knee or concussion worries, I'm sure he'd rather be making $10+m that he got from the 7 year deal he signed in 2018 than the $6-7 million (maybe?) he'd be making from the deal he signed in 2022 after his "short deal" ran out, regardless of if the team he's on is competing or not. I'm sure guys like Nathan Horton and Bobby Ryan are very happy they signed the long-term deals they signed.
Jun. 28, 2018 at 11:21 a.m.
#10
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Quoting: SpencerTBL
You'd also have to take into account the fact that a sign and trade for the Islanders would be devastating to the fans - and I think that's why Lou is not willing to do it. Sure, logically it makes the most sense if you know he's not coming back. But is it worth the insane backlash the team would get?

The "X Player" played with "Y Player" when they were kids/in junior/in NCAA/once at an all star game argument has been made a number of times for a number of players in the past. In reality, it ends up meaning very little to players. It may be enough to get a discount of half a million, maybe a million? But it's not enough to get him to take $7.5m in Tampa over the $10-12m he'd make in NY/TOR/SJ, even with FL's tax advantages.

With regards to him wanting to sign a shorter term deal, that doesn't make any sense for a player his age. Players of his talent level and his age want to maximize the length of their deals knowing that they're going to get paid a ton of money regardless. They want to guarantee that, if something crazy happens (career-altering injury, unexpected drop in skill, etc.) they are still going to be paid that large amount of money anyway. Injury risk inherently goes up as age increases. That's why you see so many of these long contracts "turn bad" for teams when a player ages. The players still want to be paid even though they know they're on the decline. Ultimately, players care about their/their family's future more than any hockey team's future. Say JT goes out next year and tears his ACL in the 20th game of the season, or he suffers a few concussions (both certainly reasonable possibilities). When Tavares is 35 and on the decline with a busted up knee or concussion worries, I'm sure he'd rather be making $10+m that he got from the 7 year deal he signed in 2018 than the $6-7 million (maybe?) he'd be making from the deal he signed in 2022 after his "short deal" ran out, regardless of if the team he's on is competing or not. I'm sure guys like Nathan Horton and Bobby Ryan are very happy they signed the long-term deals they signed.


I don't care what an article says, no way Lou would let JT walk and get nothing back if he can get a 1st/2nd line center and winger back. Sign and trade makes perfect sense even if its not with tampa because then JT saves face by taking care of NY because then they are still getting good players for him and NY needs a name to sell tickets. Look at the salary tax calculator 9 mil in new york is equal to 7.5 in tampa. I understand the report is ny offered 11, but that is because they are desperate not to lose him. not what hes actually worth.

As far as Tanev goes, maybe they would have to up the offer to what i put like adding koekkoek or another pick but Yzerman isnt trading foote. In fact there are rumors (just rumors) that Foote could make team out of camp.
Jun. 28, 2018 at 2:43 p.m.
#11
SpencerTBL
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Quoting: zibby805
I don't care what an article says, no way Lou would let JT walk and get nothing back if he can get a 1st/2nd line center and winger back. Sign and trade makes perfect sense even if its not with tampa because then JT saves face by taking care of NY because then they are still getting good players for him and NY needs a name to sell tickets.


Let me be clear: I agree with you about the logic of a sign and trade. Yes, without a doubt a sign-and-trade would be by far the best option for the Islanders from a team and operational standpoint if they are positive that he is not re-signing. That being said, there is a LOT that goes into a sign-and-trade that is irrelevant to it making sense to help the team out as much as possible.

1. The fans. A lot of fans are...not all that bright. Specifically, a lot of die-hard fans, casual fans and fans that are new and a team is trying to attract. They won't always understand the in-depth thought that goes into a sign and trade. If NY signs Tavares and then immediately flips him, they risk alienating all of these fans who see it as "trading away the franchise's best player". Is the team willing to deal with this backlash, especially given their current relationship with the fans (see: Barclay's Center)?

2. JT doesn't necessarily "save face" with NY with a sign and trade. In a sense, a sign and trade is essentially him refusing to sign and play with the Islanders. How is him saying "thanks, but no thanks" going to make him look good to the fans? I don't think there are many fans out there that are going to appreciate him essentially saying "nah, I'm good, I'll go elsewhere", and there aren't any fans out there that would rather have the assets that NYI would get for JT in a sign and trade than JT himself.

3. There's an argument to be made that the assets NYI would receive in a sign and trade really wouldn't be all that super significant. Think about it. Is JT going to sign a contract without some sort of NMC/NTC? Not a chance. Thus, (unless I'm misunderstanding something about contracts or the CBA) he's going to have to waive that clause to go to whatever team is involved in the sign and trade. If he's willing to waive the clause to go there, aside from potentially an 8th year on the contract, why wouldn't he just sign there as a UFA? And, if that's the case, why would a team that could theoretically just sign him as a UFA give up significant assets to do a sign and trade for him? And why would JT want to go to a team that has just given up significant assets in order to sign him if he wants to win?

4. This is the NHL. GMs don't always do the thing that makes the most sense in the public eye. Whether it's offer sheets, sign-and-trade deals, etc. The overwhelming majority of decisions that GMs make are very traditional in nature. Blockbusters rarely happen (unless your name rhymes with Park Lergevin and you're willing to get ripped off). When's the last time you can remember a sign and trade deal happening? Or even a transaction in any sense that was really out of the ordinary? They just don't happen very often. And they happen even less often when big name players are involved. Just because it makes sense to us doesn't mean it's likely.
 
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