SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/NHL Signings

Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares (7 Years / $11,000,000 AAV)

Was this a good signing?
The chart has been hidden

Poll Options


Jul. 2, 2018 at 1:37 a.m.
#51
Emotionally in 2018
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2016
Posts: 9,290
Likes: 3,387
Quoting: kaljakori
Competent bums. Okay, I'll give you Orlov as a legit #3 guy. After that? Niskanen, Orpik, Kempny and Djoos. Yep, competent bums.


The only bum there is Orpik. Advanced stats show that the Orlov-Niskanen pairing was one of the most effective shutdown pairings in the league and that Djoos was actually our second best defender throughout the year, even though he was stuck playing with Orpik after the Kempny trade. As for Kempny, he clearly was the stabilizing presence we needed to eat minutes, move the puck, and defend well within the system. Just because you don't pay enough attention to know the names doesn't mean that they're bums by any stretch.
Jul. 2, 2018 at 2:09 a.m.
#52
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 10,386
Likes: 2,880
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Regular season means nothing. Now you are paying a high cap hit and long term for Zaitsev. Offense wins games, Defense wins championships. You can't do anything when you have 1 really good defensemen and a bunch of bums around him.


giphy.gif
Jul. 2, 2018 at 2:14 a.m.
#53
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 10,386
Likes: 2,880
Quoting: krakowitz
Advanced stats show that the Orlov-Niskanen pairing was one of the most effective shutdown pairings in the league and that Djoos was actually our second best defender throughout the year


giphy.gif
Jul. 2, 2018 at 7:34 a.m.
#54
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2017
Posts: 698
Likes: 679
Quoting: krakowitz
The only bum there is Orpik. Advanced stats show that the Orlov-Niskanen pairing was one of the most effective shutdown pairings in the league and that Djoos was actually our second best defender throughout the year, even though he was stuck playing with Orpik after the Kempny trade. As for Kempny, he clearly was the stabilizing presence we needed to eat minutes, move the puck, and defend well within the system. Just because you don't pay enough attention to know the names doesn't mean that they're bums by any stretch.


competent
ˈkɒmpɪt(ə)nt/
adjective
adjective: competent

having the necessary ability, knowledge, or skill to do something successfully.
Jul. 2, 2018 at 12:56 p.m.
#55
BC
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 290
Likes: 56
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Toronto needed defense. Matthews/Kadri is already an Elite 1/2. I believe the money could've and should've went to the defense because now they have virtually no cap to improve the defense. Atleast JT will cover up the losses of JVR and Bozak


Yes they are low on cap space to improve their defence group. However having no cap space in the Leafs case isnt a problem as they are in cap heaven not cap hell as some would suggest. What i mean by this is the leafs have very few bad contracts all this cap money is spent on guys who are all very good assets on good contracts that can be moved with one phone call. Every team in the NHL wishes they were in the cap position Toronto is at this time.
Jul. 2, 2018 at 8:58 p.m.
#56
GO PENGUINS GO!
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2018
Posts: 129
Likes: 32
Why does Toronto have to get him??? Any other team but Toronto.
habs_fan123 liked this.
Jul. 10, 2018 at 12:27 a.m.
#57
HawksFan28
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2016
Posts: 1,076
Likes: 138
Quoting: Babcock_4_Mayor
If Dubas wants to play hardball with Nylander all he has to do is look no further than Nik Ehlers' deal in Winnipeg, who is set to make $6M per for the next 7 years starting in 2018-2019. So if the Leafs were to lock up Nylander for $6M per for 7 years, both players would make 7.5% of the $79.5M salary cap in 2018-2019. What makes these two players comparable is nearly everything. So using your metrics of age, potential and production for comparison you will see that Nylander and his agent are not in a position to demand $7.5M.

Age:
Both are 22 years old and were drafted in the first round of the 2014 draft (8th and 9th overall) and both signed their ELCs at age 18.

Production:
In two full seasons Ehlers scored 54 goals, 70 assists and 124 points (25 on the PP) in 164 games for 0.76 points per game, playing 16:30 minutes a night on average. In the same two seasons Nylander scored 42 goals, 80 assists and 122 points (38 on the PP) in 163 games for 0.75 points per game, playing 16:30 minutes a night on average. Both players have played with elite line-mates at both 5v5 and on the powerplay.

Potential:
Both players have the potential to be top line scoring wingers (which they already are). So judging by their past performance it is easy to project that both players will consistently score within the 60-70 point range over the course of a full season.

Thus, since many of the contracts in the league are decided by comparable player contracts, a precedent has already been set that a winger of Nylander's caliber, at his age, is objectively worth $6M per year. What statistics can his agent bring to the table that would merit his client being paid more? Maybe David Pastrnaks contract? lets see.

Pastrnak is also 22 years old and signed his ELC at 18.
In the same two full seasons, he has scored 69 goals, 81 assists, and 150 points (50 on the PP) in 157 games for 0.96 points per game. Making it likely that he gets 70-80 points a year in a full season.
He makes $6.6M per season which started in 2017-2018 meaning he made 8.8% of the $75M salary cap, which for Nylander would only come out to $6.9M per year. However, based on production and potential it does not appear that he deserves as much as Pastrnak.


Nylander is probably going to be traded for a cost controlled defenseman...... Funny how he's not signed yet.

I mean the notion that Toronto fans believe the leafs can somehow defy the salary cap is pretty amazing - especially when it's simple math..........But yea I forgot, those young kids don't care about getting paid market value.....

And it's funny, you keep on referring to contracts that were signed a while ago...... There is a reason why Crosby only makes 8.7 million - right because he signed his contract 5 years ago when 8.7 was tops in the league...

You're joking yourself if you think this is all going to workout without any cap issues at all....

Nylander will probably be traded -- and you can bet if some GM's want to get nasty they give Nylander an offer sheet and really force Toronto's hand, the same can be done next summer with Matthews and Marner if theyr'e not signed to extensions........ And to be honest with you, If I'm Lou - you can bet your ass I will offer-sheet anyone of them considering they lost Tavares for nothing....
Jul. 10, 2018 at 9:23 a.m.
#58
tmljk22
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 296
Likes: 109
Quoting: HawksFan28
Nylander is probably going to be traded for a cost controlled defenseman...... Funny how he's not signed yet.

I mean the notion that Toronto fans believe the leafs can somehow defy the salary cap is pretty amazing - especially when it's simple math..........But yea I forgot, those young kids don't care about getting paid market value.....

And it's funny, you keep on referring to contracts that were signed a while ago...... There is a reason why Crosby only makes 8.7 million - right because he signed his contract 5 years ago when 8.7 was tops in the league...

You're joking yourself if you think this is all going to workout without any cap issues at all....

Nylander will probably be traded -- and you can bet if some GM's want to get nasty they give Nylander an offer sheet and really force Toronto's hand, the same can be done next summer with Matthews and Marner if theyr'e not signed to extensions........ And to be honest with you, If I'm Lou - you can bet your ass I will offer-sheet anyone of them considering they lost Tavares for nothing....



It’s funny how you think Nylander not being signed right now is a big deal. I don’t know if you remember but on July 10 last year, names like David Pasternak, Ryan Johansen, and Colton Parayko, all RFAs we’re not signed. None of which got offer sheeted because the price for them are too high. And everyone thinks Nylander will be traded for a RHD though odds are he won’t. Dubas talks about how he wants to keep the “Big Three” together and that doesn’t include a trade away.

The leafs put up 105 points last year with the Defense they have now and without John Tavares. Sure you lose 30+ goals in JVR and 15 in Bozak, but that gets replaced with John Tavares, Mitch Marner playing with increased skill, Auston Matthews playing against second pairing Defense as well as a 30 goal scorer in Kadri playing on the third line.

Tell me why you would break up this offensive core if your team is already in a position to succeed.
Babcock_4_Mayor liked this.
Jul. 10, 2018 at 11:38 a.m.
#59
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 41
Likes: 9
Quoting: HawksFan28
Nylander is probably going to be traded for a cost controlled defenseman...... Funny how he's not signed yet.

I mean the notion that Toronto fans believe the leafs can somehow defy the salary cap is pretty amazing - especially when it's simple math..........But yea I forgot, those young kids don't care about getting paid market value.....

And it's funny, you keep on referring to contracts that were signed a while ago...... There is a reason why Crosby only makes 8.7 million - right because he signed his contract 5 years ago when 8.7 was tops in the league...

You're joking yourself if you think this is all going to workout without any cap issues at all....

Nylander will probably be traded -- and you can bet if some GM's want to get nasty they give Nylander an offer sheet and really force Toronto's hand, the same can be done next summer with Matthews and Marner if theyr'e not signed to extensions........ And to be honest with you, If I'm Lou - you can bet your ass I will offer-sheet anyone of them considering they lost Tavares for nothing....


You're only lying to yourself if you think i compared Nylander's contract to contracts that were signed a while ago. I only referred to two contracts, Pastrnak (SIGNING DATE: September 14, 2017) and Ehlers (SIGNING DATE: October 4, 2017) only one year ago so how does this compare to bringing up Crosby's contract? Did you also notice how these players were signed in the fall and not immediately after July 1st, funny how they weren't traded. Also I'm not suggesting that the leafs rip these players off and somehow defy the cap like you seem to think. You originally set the parameters for "market value" (remember age, production, potential and comparable contracts?) All i did was use those metrics to show that Nylander's market value was not as high as some people like to point out, especially not at this point in his career where he has no contract leverage as he is just finishing his ELC, has no arbitration rights and is an RFA whose only play is to sit out until he gets what he wants, which in the end will only hurt his value especially if he sits the full year. Btw the Islanders don't have the picks necessary to offersheet Nylander unless they re-acquire their own second and third rounders. And plus, even if they did offer sheet any of these players you realize they would have to sign it for it to mean anything right? Why would any of these kids leave what has the potential to be a perennial Stanley Cup contender to play for a team who currently looks like they would lose to the Marlies? Would they really do that for a few extra million bucks, none of these 3 players are even 22 years old yet, they have over a decade to make more money than they could ever know what to do with.
Jul. 10, 2018 at 11:50 a.m.
#60
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 41
Likes: 9
Quoting: HawksFan28
Nylander is probably going to be traded for a cost controlled defenseman...... Funny how he's not signed yet.

I mean the notion that Toronto fans believe the leafs can somehow defy the salary cap is pretty amazing - especially when it's simple math..........But yea I forgot, those young kids don't care about getting paid market value.....

And it's funny, you keep on referring to contracts that were signed a while ago...... There is a reason why Crosby only makes 8.7 million - right because he signed his contract 5 years ago when 8.7 was tops in the league...

You're joking yourself if you think this is all going to workout without any cap issues at all....

Nylander will probably be traded -- and you can bet if some GM's want to get nasty they give Nylander an offer sheet and really force Toronto's hand, the same can be done next summer with Matthews and Marner if theyr'e not signed to extensions........ And to be honest with you, If I'm Lou - you can bet your ass I will offer-sheet anyone of them considering they lost Tavares for nothing....


Look at the current RFAs who are still unsigned:
Mark Stone
Ryan Murray
Ryan Spooner
Jacob Trouba
Cody Ceci
Elias Lindholm
Kevin Hayes
Matt Dumba
Brock Nelson
Connor Hellebuyck
Tom Wilson
Jason Zucker
William Karlsson
Brady Skjei
Brandon Montour
Dylan Larkin
Jordan Schmaltz
Noah Hanifin
Mark Jankowski
Miles Wood
Jimmy Vesey
Sam Reinhart
Nick Ritchie
Jake Virtanen
Darnell Nurse
Ryan Hartman
Josh Morrissey
Anthony Mantha
Ryan Pulock
Shea Theodore
William Nylander

Buckle up everyone! the rest of the summer is gonna be super exciting when all of these guys get traded since they haven't been re-signed yet!
tmljk22 and Random2152 liked this.
Jul. 10, 2018 at 3:35 p.m.
#61
tmljk22
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 296
Likes: 109
Edited Jul. 10, 2018 at 3:40 p.m.
Quoting: Babcock_4_Mayor
Look at the current RFAs who are still unsigned:
Mark Stone
Ryan Murray
Ryan Spooner
Jacob Trouba
Cody Ceci
Elias Lindholm
Kevin Hayes
Matt Dumba
Brock Nelson
Connor Hellebuyck
Tom Wilson
Jason Zucker
William Karlsson
Brady Skjei
Brandon Montour
Dylan Larkin
Jordan Schmaltz
Noah Hanifin
Mark Jankowski
Miles Wood
Jimmy Vesey
Sam Reinhart
Nick Ritchie
Jake Virtanen
Darnell Nurse
Ryan Hartman
Josh Morrissey
Anthony Mantha
Ryan Pulock
Shea Theodore
William Nylander

Buckle up everyone! the rest of the summer is gonna be super exciting when all of these guys get traded since they haven't been re-signed yet!


Dont forget they will get offer sheeted before they get traded?
Jul. 11, 2018 at 7:16 p.m.
#62
HawksFan28
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2016
Posts: 1,076
Likes: 138
Quoting: Babcock_4_Mayor
Look at the current RFAs who are still unsigned:
Mark Stone
Ryan Murray
Ryan Spooner
Jacob Trouba
Cody Ceci
Elias Lindholm
Kevin Hayes
Matt Dumba
Brock Nelson
Connor Hellebuyck
Tom Wilson
Jason Zucker
William Karlsson
Brady Skjei
Brandon Montour
Dylan Larkin
Jordan Schmaltz
Noah Hanifin
Mark Jankowski
Miles Wood
Jimmy Vesey
Sam Reinhart
Nick Ritchie
Jake Virtanen
Darnell Nurse
Ryan Hartman
Josh Morrissey
Anthony Mantha
Ryan Pulock
Shea Theodore
William Nylander

Buckle up everyone! the rest of the summer is gonna be super exciting when all of these guys get traded since they haven't been re-signed yet!


Buckle up, cant wait for the Toronto riots next summer! - because that's whats going to happen when Leafs fans wake up from their delusion and realize the salary cap applies to Toronto too.

"The Auston Matthews Riots"

Funny part is, a few months ago I implied that Toronto "technically" could sign Tavares and posters called that "crazy" because of the cap hell thing, but now it's not "crazy"...

Oh yea, that's right - Matthews, Marner & Nylander are going to sign sweetheart deals because you know - hockey's not a business in Toronto - it's about "hockey" and pleasing "the fans"....

There is no way in hell Toronto ISN'T going to have to move a few big contracts to fit these guys in - at the very least Marleau and Kadri.....

The better the Leafs do, the more these kids are going to get paid which is funny....

I don't know why Leafs fans just cant admit that this is their best opportunity to make a deep run because next summer they're going to have some problems...

I mean Nikita Kucherov just signed for 9.5 million - Matthews is going to want 13M, Marner 9M at least.... The notion that Nylander will sign a long-term deal for anything less than 7.5 is insanity....

Toronto is in a pretty unusual position right now and next summer.... If they sign Nylander to a long-term deal NOW, then next summer they're going to have issues getting BOTH Matthews & Marner signed - especially if the Leafs win the Cup.....

You cant bet Nylander wants a long-term deal, but he's not going to lock himself down for the next 8 years at 6.5 per, because he knows that he will be worth 8-9 million in 4 years...
Jul. 14, 2018 at 9:24 a.m.
#63
Buljujarvi
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2018
Posts: 4,209
Likes: 2,552
Toronto for the Atlantic division 18-19
tmljk22 liked this.
Dec. 1, 2018 at 6:03 p.m.
#64
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 41
Likes: 9
Quoting: HawksFan28
The notion that Nylander will sign a long-term deal for anything less than 7.5 is insanity....



Hey man look how wrong you were
Saskleaf liked this.
Jan. 30, 2021 at 10:02 a.m.
#65
Go leafs go
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2020
Posts: 13,179
Likes: 9,152
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Toronto needed defense. Matthews/Kadri is already an Elite 1/2. I believe the money could've and should've went to the defense because now they have virtually no cap to improve the defense. Atleast JT will cover up the losses of JVR and Bozak


With Brodie (along with Muzzin and Rielly, and even Holl now), and a 47 goal scorer in Tavares, I think the leafs are fine awesome face .
Jan. 30, 2021 at 3:42 p.m.
#66
WentWughes
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2016
Posts: 10,653
Likes: 10,231
Quoting: Saskleaf
With Brodie (along with Muzzin and Rielly, and even Holl now), and a 47 goal scorer in Tavares, I think the leafs are fine awesome face .


and 0 playoff wins since I said this. Yep, Toronto are doing very well
Jan. 30, 2021 at 5:22 p.m.
#67
Go leafs go
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2020
Posts: 13,179
Likes: 9,152
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
and 0 playoff wins since I said this. Yep, Toronto are doing very well


They weren’t the favourites against Boston and they deserve a buy because of this pandemic thing. They are fine. Worth noting the jabs are no better off.
Jan. 30, 2021 at 6:11 p.m.
#68
Go leafs go
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2020
Posts: 13,179
Likes: 9,152
Quoting: Saskleaf
They weren’t the favourites against Boston and they deserve a buy because of this pandemic thing. They are fine. Worth noting the jabs are no better off.

*habs.

Also, they won 3 games against the bruins and 2 against the jacket since getting Tavares.
Jan. 31, 2021 at 1:01 a.m.
#69
WentWughes
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2016
Posts: 10,653
Likes: 10,231
Quoting: Saskleaf
They weren’t the favourites against Boston and they deserve a buy because of this pandemic thing. They are fine. Worth noting the jabs are no better off.


I mean technically we won a playoff round last year so that counts for something, but both teams have been ****e lately. Either way Toronto has not benefitted from this signing
Jan. 31, 2021 at 10:08 p.m.
#70
Go leafs go
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2020
Posts: 13,179
Likes: 9,152
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I mean technically we won a playoff round last year so that counts for something, but both teams have been ****e lately. Either way Toronto has not benefitted from this signing


I suppose it's up for debate due to his cap hit, but you can't deny Tavares has been a beast since signing that deal. He's lived up to that deal.
Jan. 31, 2021 at 10:10 p.m.
#71
sen krak fan
Avatar of the user
Joined: Oct. 2020
Posts: 4,393
Likes: 1,517
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I mean technically we won a playoff round last year so that counts for something, but both teams have been ****e lately. Either way Toronto has not benefitted from this signing


They won a play-ins round, not playoffs.
Saskleaf liked this.
Jan. 31, 2021 at 11:59 p.m.
#72
WentWughes
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2016
Posts: 10,653
Likes: 10,231
Quoting: Brad21
They won a play-ins round, not playoffs.


Ok, well then Toronto missed last year. They haven't improved since signing Tavares. It's still the same.
Feb. 1, 2021 at 8:32 a.m.
#73
Not yet trannycided
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2017
Posts: 6,607
Likes: 2,012
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Ok, well then Toronto missed last year. They haven't improved since signing Tavares. It's still the same.


I was thinking of old GM Game trades. Remember when I traded you Kirill Kaprizov + Tyler Ennis for Henrik Borgstrom? Man does that look silly now...
Feb. 1, 2021 at 1:09 p.m.
#74
sen krak fan
Avatar of the user
Joined: Oct. 2020
Posts: 4,393
Likes: 1,517
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Ok, well then Toronto missed last year. They haven't improved since signing Tavares. It's still the same.


I glad someone agrees with me about Tavares.And I know Toronto missed the playoffs last year.The really pooped the bed.As they have since Tavares came.
Feb. 1, 2021 at 1:39 p.m.
#75
WentWughes
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2016
Posts: 10,653
Likes: 10,231
Quoting: EmpressKayla
I was thinking of old GM Game trades. Remember when I traded you Kirill Kaprizov + Tyler Ennis for Henrik Borgstrom? Man does that look silly now...


Pretty crazy to look back on
PrincessChloe liked this.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Loading animation
Submit Poll Edit