I think the Karlsson trade is pretty reasonable, but I'm not sure if Colorado does that deal for Johnson. I don't think Stralman gets you Simmonds+.

That's a hell no from Colorado.

Johnson is an above average 2nd line centre, I think 1st + B prospect is actually a really good deal for Colorado if you look at other comparable players and their returns.
Simmonds and Stralman are both pending UFAs with pretty similar value. I only added Laughton because defenseman are inherently more valuable than wingers.
Thanks for the feedback!

Why? I thought it was a pretty reasonable trade, and fits a big need (Secondary scoring)

Timmins isn't a B level prospect. We're taking on Johnson's contract (to help out TBL) and not sending any salary back. Taking on salary limits your return. Grubauer trade being a prime example. Other teams were offering a first, but not willing to take on Orpik's contract.

You're not exactly "taking on salary" as if it's a capdump. Johnson's deal is fair value for his production.

way too much for Johnson who has to be moved for cap reasons.

Timmins is as untouchable as it comes to that prospect pool,

bc Tampa needs to get rid of Salary to fit in EK, Point, and Kucherov, they wouldnt be in a position to get a haul demand for him. As good as Johnson is, he would be considered a cap dump. Tampa doesnt have the leverage to get full value back

Call it a cap dump if you want, but Johnson's contract is fair value for his production. Also remember that Colorado should be inclined to help get Karlsson to Tampa as it increases their chances of the Ottawa pick becoming top 5 or better.

That pick is going ot be top 5 either way, Johnson will be 28 to start the season and they arent giving up their most NHL ready D prospect and 1st round pick. If they were going to do that they would be going after Jeff Skinner isntead. Johnson isnt some big time sexy pick up for a team that would have to dump salary to make a major trade and keep their RFAs next year.

Sorry but you are asking way too much for a guy that Bolts would have to trade either way. They wont get full value from them and especially wont be getting it from the Avs who are trying to build something special

Taking on salary is taking on salary. You get production, but at the end of the day, it all comes down to dollars. We have a number of RFAs to resign next year, so COL can't just take on salary without thinking about it.

If Avs fans hate the trade so much, Johnson can go somewhere else, Colorado just seemed like a good fit to me because they don't have much outside the first line and they would be inclined to help get Karlsson out of Ottawa. There are teams out there that would pay more than my proposal for Tyler Johnson.

All of this is useless unless Tyler Johnson waives his NTC.

From Johnson's perspective, why would he go from a top 4 team in the league - that's also a tax friendly zone and has great weather, etc., - to a rebuilding, 1-line team that hasn't been consistent since before the 04/05 lockout?

Avs have a lot of cap space, I don't think adding 5M Johnson is gonna screw up your long term plans. What if you swapped Colin Wilson for Paajarvi with Ottawa? Get a slightly worse player for a reduced cap hit? Would that make this trade better?

they spent the last few years rebuilding their pipeline, getting young talent and building it all up together as playoff contender starting int he next year or 2. They arent going to throw it all away now bc someone thinks they dont have any talent. They played 5 rookie forwards last year, so yeah you might not think they have much in depth....but they are rookies and some may be who they are, some are going to develop and progress even further.

Remember at one time Tampa a a triplet line of unknowns, thats how young players work in this league. Some do develop into talent. Why are the Avs screwed with their forwards or are you over looking that rookies can get better?

Detroit fans shouldnt be throwing stones at any other teams rebuilds or prospect pools. Might want to look into the mirror about your team first

Johnson's NTC was a big thing I took into consideration when making this, it was the main reason I included Colorado, because he obviously wouldn't waive for Ottawa. Colorado is a promising young team, and he would get more minutes there than in Tampa.

Even with Jost, Compher, etc improving, Colorado has weak forward depth. Also I never said that they're screwed with their forwards, I don't know where you're getting that. But they do need to add to that forward group if they plan on competing soon. Also I wouldn't exactly call a recent 2nd rounder and a mid first throwing away your young talent. And Johnson is not ancient either, as you said he's 28 so he still has at least 6-7 years of being a great centre.

recent 2nd rounder who was just named one of Canadas best dmen at World Juniors (along with Makar), was one of the leaders on the power house OHL greyhounds coming off an impressive season. Sorry but you are trying to undervalue Timmins by calling him a 2nd rounder, hes not just "a second rounder" . I always enjoy that strategy on this site...I am trying to trade my guy but tell you how awesome and great he is but the pieces that another team dont want to give up...lets just belittle them a bit so they dont sound that great.

If your player is so great and the other teams stuff is so meh, why do you want them in the first place....funny how that works

avs have tried for years trying to build up a strong D pipleine and they are not going to give up one of their promising pro ready Dmen for Tyler Johnson, especially when Tampa doesnt have leverage in trade talks if they will be hard against the cap.

I'm not trying to bring down Timmins' value lol, but like I said trading a 2nd rounder isn't destroying your pipeline. He's a good prospect but he is still a prospect and you're getting an NHL player. NHLer > Prospect.
Anyway, I don't know why you're so hung up on Timmins. It can be a different prospect. What about Nicolas Meloche? He's also a recent 2nd rounder I believe, but he hasn't raised his stock as much as Timmins.

I would say Timmins is more of an A- than a B, and Tyler Johnson had one season as an above average 2nd line centre, and then followed it up with three years of average or below average, so I would disagree on still calling him an above average 2nd line centre.

Fair enough if you think that. Would replacing Timmins with Meloche make it better? Avs fans seem to really like Timmins.

Hes not a 2nd rounder, you arent liste and doing it again. Timmins would be redrafted easily into the 1st round now of his draft year after what he has done since then. And there are legit prospect nerds who would have Timmins ahead of Cal Foote in the D prospect rankings from that draft.

Just one example
https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/2017-nhl-draft-do-over-panel-of-scouts-execs-and-gms-redo-the-first-round

Meloche yeah he can be moved bc he doesnt have as high as ceiling as Timmins.

Perfect then. Proposal's been changed from Timmins to Meloche. Hopefully that makes it better.

4 cups in 10 years; best dynasty of the past 20 years; numerous hall of famers...

We're allowed to rebuild, and yes we're in trouble. Will be 3-5 years before we can consider the playoffs again. However, Detroit's current status doesn't prevent me from critically appraising trades/signings with other organizations.