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Forums/Armchair-GM

To All the leaf fans who want Pesce/ Hamilton

Created by: Caniac2000
Initial Creation Date: Jul 12, 2018
Published: Jul 12, 2018 at 11:48
Team: 2018-19 Carolina Hurricanes
Team Explanation
This is the realistic cost of what it's gonna take to get Pesce or Hamilton. I combined them to give you an idea of their true value. Now when people make a ACGM trading faulk to toronto, don't say "I'd rather have Hamilton/Pesce" because we'd rather have Matthews/Marner
Trades
CAR
  1. Matthews, Auston
  2. Marner, Mitchell
  3. Kapanen, Kasperi
TOR
  1. Hamilton, Dougie
  2. Pesce, Brett
  3. 2019 6th round pick (CGY)
  4. 2019 7th round pick (BOS)
Buyouts
  • Alexander Semin: $2,333,333
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Justin Faulk: $683,333 (14%)
  • Marcus Krüger: $308,333 (10%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2019
CAR
CAR
CAR
CAR
CAR
CAR
2020
CAR
CAR
CAR
CAR
CAR
CAR
CAR
2021
CAR
CAR
CAR
CAR
CAR
CAR
CAR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
22$79,500,000$59,619,999$0$8,132,500$19,880,001
Left WingCenterRight Wing
Zykov, Valentin
$675,000
LW
UFA - 2
Necas, Martin
$894,167
RW, C
RFA - 4
Svechnikov, Andrei
$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 3
Aho, Sebastian
$925,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Matthews, Auston
$925,000
C
UFA - 1
Teräväinen, Teuvo
$2,860,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Skinner, Jeff
$5,725,000
LW, RW
NMC
UFA - 1
Staal, Jordan
$6,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 5
Marner, Mitchell
$894,167
RW
UFA - 1
Kapanen, Kasperi
$863,333
RW
RFA - 1
Rask, Victor
$4,000,000
C
UFA - 4
Williams, Justin
$4,500,000
RW
NTC
UFA - 1
Martinook, Jordan
$1,800,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 1
Ferland, Micheal
$1,750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Slavin, Jaccob
$5,300,000
LD
UFA - 7
Faulk, Justin
$4,150,000
LD/RD
NTC
UFA - 2
Darling, Scott
$4,150,000
G
NTC
UFA - 3
De Haan, Calvin
$4,550,000
LD/RD
UFA - 4
van Riemsdyk, Trevor
$2,300,000
RD
UFA - 2
Mrázek, Petr
$1,500,000
G
UFA - 1
Fleury, Haydn
$863,333
LD/RD
RFA - 1
McKeown, Roland
$745,000
RD
RFA - 1

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Jul 12, 2018 at 11:50
#1
Ragsandbluesfan
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 17,817
Likes: 4,882
this
Caniac2000, jslongo and johnnyu22 liked this.
Jul 12, 2018 at 11:52
#2
Thread Starter
Miss the Thrashers
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 9,203
Likes: 1,990
Quoting: Ragsandbluesfan
this


^ <3
jslongo liked this.
Jul 12, 2018 at 11:55
#3
Canes Baby
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 3,926
Likes: 1,109
Matthews and Marner would slot in nicely on our 4th line smile
joshelkin, Caniac2000, Ragsandbluesfan and 1 other person liked this.
Jul 12, 2018 at 11:55
#4
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 292
The fact that you truly believe that is absolutely hilarious!
CaptainTavares liked this.
Jul 12, 2018 at 11:55
#5
Islanders Fan
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 5,095
Likes: 1,458
Don't think they're worth THAT much, but I'll agree Toronto ACGM's think they can get away with just about anything right now
Caniac2000 liked this.
Jul 12, 2018 at 11:59
#6
Canes Baby
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 3,926
Likes: 1,109
Quoting: DJSums17
The fact that you truly believe that is absolutely hilarious!


The fact that you think hes being serious is absolutely hilarious! xD Freakin Leafs Fans...
Caniac2000 liked this.
Jul 12, 2018 at 12:00
#7
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 21,974
Likes: 6,903
I hear what you are saying, there each fan base has their crazy super fans who think their 4th liners are god.

I've mentioned this several times, I don't see Carolina and TO being a good fit for trade partners. Its not a level playing ground.

Carolina sees an opportunity to rob TO since they apparently are desperate for a right handed defenceman and TO fans see an opportunity to rob Carolina since they have so much depth on defence.

However when you take a step back and look at the big picture, it makes trades between the two teams very difficult.

1) Toronto isn't desperate for defence, they will not over pay. Dubas is smart enough to know that trading someone like Nylander for a defenceman only makes sense if that team is overpaying in a big way.
2) Carolina needs forwards and scoring but they have a deep prospect pool on the verge of contributing and they won't be willing to over pay for a forward since they have cheaper options on the way.

So with those two thoughts in play, the only trade that makes any sense is a minor one where Faulk is brought in for a minor package.

With that being said, I fully believe Carolina can get a much better package from a team that is on the bubble and wants to make the playoffs.

Lets be honest, as the team stands now, TO is finishing 1st or second in the conference and will battle Tampa, or pass Tampa if they don't land Karlsson. There isn't a huge need to overpay since they are pretty much an absolute lock for the playoffs. Carolina on the other hand has missed the playoffs a lot recently but have those young guys on the way, they have Faulk they can use to improve but should wait till the right deal comes there way. They should look to teams like Edmonton, or Dallas or some of the other teams that keep just missing the playoffs. Those GM's will be under pressure to make the playoffs and will move bigger assets to improve their team.
Caniac2000 liked this.
Jul 12, 2018 at 12:09
#8
Next Gen
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,321
Likes: 266
AS a NYR fan i laugh at this, Marner and Mathews are already 65+ point players 2 seasons in and are only growing at young age of 20 and 21 while hamilton is 26 and a solid number 2 maybe a number 1 with mathews almost having the franchise tag and being a center it would be pesce and hamilton for mathews and maybe a 2nd or 1st at best you are heavily over valuing hamilton and pesces value.
CaptainTavares liked this.
Jul 12, 2018 at 12:15
#9
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 227
Likes: 26
hilarious troll post hahaha
Caniac2000 liked this.
Jul 12, 2018 at 12:22
#10
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 17,975
Likes: 5,320
Im by no means a Leafs fan but that is simply not true and you know it. This is trolling......
Jul 12, 2018 at 12:58
#11
Thread Starter
Miss the Thrashers
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 9,203
Likes: 1,990
Quoting: jslongo
Matthews and Marner would slot in nicely on our 4th line smile


Someone finally understands. <3
jslongo liked this.
Jul 12, 2018 at 12:58
#12
#LeafsFever
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 918
I loved this so much, that I am going to quote it: "give you an idea of their true value". If actual hockey people, that runs these teams, have such a tremendously difficult time with determining "true value", who are you to say you have the answer. If you are going to make such a bold remark, I think we'd all like to see a resume and references grin Assuming you are a Canes fan, your fan bias takes you out of the running straight away. Next, a lot of people around here provide replies with logical, thorough reasoning, so I will give you something to ponder. Doug Hamilton has now been traded twice, so not only can you see the value in which he is deemed, especially in this latest deal, but you have to wonder if there is more going on with him that what his stats indicate. And yes, I know there's been a lot speculated about his quirkiness and such, but as far as "true value goes", if the Canes got him for Elias Lindhom + Noah Hanifan, you need to minus the value of a top-6 power forward (Ferland) and a top defensive prospect (Fox). So, if we are saying that Hamilton > Pesce, then neither defender has value remotely close to that of either Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews. You can consider my Leafs bias all you'd like, but this isn't a Mike Hoffman situation. The Canes are not getting more for Hamilton by flipping him once they acquire him in hopes to bring in something more, that's not how deals work.
Jul 12, 2018 at 1:00
#13
Thread Starter
Miss the Thrashers
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 9,203
Likes: 1,990
Quoting: F50marco
Im by no means a Leafs fan but that is simply not true and you know it. This is trolling......


Quoting: johnnyu22
hilarious troll post hahaha


Quoting: Bloodykisame
AS a NYR fan i laugh at this, Marner and Mathews are already 65+ point players 2 seasons in and are only growing at young age of 20 and 21 while hamilton is 26 and a solid number 2 maybe a number 1 with mathews almost having the franchise tag and being a center it would be pesce and hamilton for mathews and maybe a 2nd or 1st at best you are heavily over valuing hamilton and pesces value.


Quoting: LoganOllivier
I hear what you are saying, there each fan base has their crazy super fans who think their 4th liners are god.

I've mentioned this several times, I don't see Carolina and TO being a good fit for trade partners. Its not a level playing ground.

Carolina sees an opportunity to rob TO since they apparently are desperate for a right handed defenceman and TO fans see an opportunity to rob Carolina since they have so much depth on defence.

However when you take a step back and look at the big picture, it makes trades between the two teams very difficult.

1) Toronto isn't desperate for defence, they will not over pay. Dubas is smart enough to know that trading someone like Nylander for a defenceman only makes sense if that team is overpaying in a big way.
2) Carolina needs forwards and scoring but they have a deep prospect pool on the verge of contributing and they won't be willing to over pay for a forward since they have cheaper options on the way.

So with those two thoughts in play, the only trade that makes any sense is a minor one where Faulk is brought in for a minor package.

With that being said, I fully believe Carolina can get a much better package from a team that is on the bubble and wants to make the playoffs.

Lets be honest, as the team stands now, TO is finishing 1st or second in the conference and will battle Tampa, or pass Tampa if they don't land Karlsson. There isn't a huge need to overpay since they are pretty much an absolute lock for the playoffs. Carolina on the other hand has missed the playoffs a lot recently but have those young guys on the way, they have Faulk they can use to improve but should wait till the right deal comes there way. They should look to teams like Edmonton, or Dallas or some of the other teams that keep just missing the playoffs. Those GM's will be under pressure to make the playoffs and will move bigger assets to improve their team.


Quoting: DJSums17
The fact that you truly believe that is absolutely hilarious!


I'm just saying that the leaf fans who think they can get Justin faulk for a puck and a KFC coupon is ridiculous. I realise this isn't all leaf fans, but I've seen enough of them saying "we could get Pesce or Hamilton for Nylander" and I just wanted to show you from a Carolina standpoint what a fair return for 2 of the better D men on the deepest blue line in hockey is. This is not trollig by any means, I just wanna get leaf fans to stop it cause it's all you ever see on any Canes post
johnnyu22 liked this.
Jul 12, 2018 at 1:01
#14
Thread Starter
Miss the Thrashers
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 9,203
Likes: 1,990
Quoting: MG1986
I loved this so much, that I am going to quote it: "give you an idea of their true value". If actual hockey people, that runs these teams, have such a tremendously difficult time with determining "true value", who are you to say you have the answer. If you are going to make such a bold remark, I think we'd all like to see a resume and references grin Assuming you are a Canes fan, your fan bias takes you out of the running straight away. Next, a lot of people around here provide replies with logical, thorough reasoning, so I will give you something to ponder. Doug Hamilton has now been traded twice, so not only can you see the value in which he is deemed, especially in this latest deal, but you have to wonder if there is more going on with him that what his stats indicate. And yes, I know there's been a lot speculated about his quirkiness and such, but as far as "true value goes", if the Canes got him for Elias Lindhom + Noah Hanifan, you need to minus the value of a top-6 power forward (Ferland) and a top defensive prospect (Fox). So, if we are saying that Hamilton > Pesce, then neither defender has value remotely close to that of either Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews. You can consider my Leafs bias all you'd like, but this isn't a Mike Hoffman situation. The Canes are not getting more for Hamilton by flipping him once they acquire him in hopes to bring in something more, that's not how deals work.


Read above dude^
Jul 12, 2018 at 1:04
#15
#LeafsFever
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 918
Quoting: Caniac2000
Read above dude^


Where am I reading?
Jul 12, 2018 at 1:06
#16
Thread Starter
Miss the Thrashers
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 9,203
Likes: 1,990
Quoting: MG1986
Where am I reading?


I'll copy and paste


I'm just saying that the leaf fans who think they can get Justin faulk for a puck and a KFC coupon is ridiculous. I realise this isn't all leaf fans, but I've seen enough of them saying "we could get Pesce or Hamilton for Nylander" and I just wanted to show you from a Carolina standpoint what a fair return for 2 of the better D men on the deepest blue line in hockey is. This is not trollig by any means, I just wanna get leaf fans to stop it cause it's all you ever see on any Canes post
Jul 12, 2018 at 1:17
#17
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 21,974
Likes: 6,903
Quoting: Caniac2000
I'm just saying that the leaf fans who think they can get Justin faulk for a puck and a KFC coupon is ridiculous. I realise this isn't all leaf fans, but I've seen enough of them saying "we could get Pesce or Hamilton for Nylander" and I just wanted to show you from a Carolina standpoint what a fair return for 2 of the better D men on the deepest blue line in hockey is. This is not trollig by any means, I just wanna get leaf fans to stop it cause it's all you ever see on any Canes post


Again, I understand where you are coming from. However, Matthews is worth Hamilton and Pesce and likely more. He's a generational talent franchise centre. There are maybe 5 of those in the NHL. A lot of teams have comparable defencemen to Pesce, he's not even close to being a top flight defenceman. He's a very good young defensive defenceman. But his ceiling is only so high. Hamilton is worth a lot more and you are right, Leaf fans have low balled trade offers for him a lot.

Again though I'll repeat that I just don't see any trades between these teams because Carolina needs to hit a home run with a defenceman trade and TO is a contending team that has no desperation to make a move.

So we are stuck with a Carolina team that needs max return trying to make a deal with a team that has zero desperation. Its just not a good trade relationship to be in.

Faulk will go to Dallas or maybe Tampa if Karlsson goes somewhere else. And they'll get a much greater return than TO will ever offer them. Its all about timing and circumstances.
Jul 12, 2018 at 1:18
#18
#LeafsFever
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 918
Quoting: Caniac2000
I'll copy and paste


I'm just saying that the leaf fans who think they can get Justin faulk for a puck and a KFC coupon is ridiculous. I realise this isn't all leaf fans, but I've seen enough of them saying "we could get Pesce or Hamilton for Nylander" and I just wanted to show you from a Carolina standpoint what a fair return for 2 of the better D men on the deepest blue line in hockey is. This is not trollig by any means, I just wanna get leaf fans to stop it cause it's all you ever see on any Canes post


I cannot speak for all Leafs fans, but your logic in creating this AGM makes absolutely no sense, if only because Doug Hamilton was literally JUST traded, so everyone is well aware of what his value was on the open market. I guess I understand what you may have been trying to accomplish, but if Matthews is being called a generational talent, and that is from NHL/hockey people league-wide, not just in Toronto, than there is absolutely nothing on the Canes roster that could match that value, unless it was a glorious package of some kind.
Jul 12, 2018 at 1:46
#19
Thread Starter
Miss the Thrashers
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 9,203
Likes: 1,990
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Again, I understand where you are coming from. However, Matthews is worth Hamilton and Pesce and likely more. He's a generational talent franchise centre. There are maybe 5 of those in the NHL. A lot of teams have comparable defencemen to Pesce, he's not even close to being a top flight defenceman. He's a very good young defensive defenceman. But his ceiling is only so high. Hamilton is worth a lot more and you are right, Leaf fans have low balled trade offers for him a lot.

Again though I'll repeat that I just don't see any trades between these teams because Carolina needs to hit a home run with a defenceman trade and TO is a contending team that has no desperation to make a move.

So we are stuck with a Carolina team that needs max return trying to make a deal with a team that has zero desperation. Its just not a good trade relationship to be in.

Faulk will go to Dallas or maybe Tampa if Karlsson goes somewhere else. And they'll get a much greater return than TO will ever offer them. Its all about timing and circumstances.


I'm not stupid I know Hamilton and Pesce aren't nearly worth Matthews or Marner, I'm just giving you an idea of how leafs fans are portraying a deal for a D man rn
Jul 12, 2018 at 1:51
#20
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 21,974
Likes: 6,903
Quoting: Caniac2000
I'm not stupid I know Hamilton and Pesce aren't nearly worth Matthews or Marner, I'm just giving you an idea of how leafs fans are portraying a deal for a D man rn


Its a product of the state of their roster. They are already a contender and have very little pressure to make any moves since they already made a major upgrade with Tavares. Carolina has way more pressure to make a move than TO since they need to improve a lot more to just make the playoffs let alone become a contender. So the negotiating power is completely in Dubas's hands. That being said, most trades on here aren't very fair.
Jul 12, 2018 at 1:54
#21
Thread Starter
Miss the Thrashers
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 9,203
Likes: 1,990
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Its a product of the state of their roster. They are already a contender and have very little pressure to make any moves since they already made a major upgrade with Tavares. Carolina has way more pressure to make a move than TO since they need to improve a lot more to just make the playoffs let alone become a contender. So the negotiating power is completely in Dubas's hands. That being said, most trades on here aren't very fair.


If Mrazek stops a beachball, Carolina are contenders. Mark my words. They are literally a goalie away
Jul 12, 2018 at 2:01
#22
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 21,974
Likes: 6,903
Quoting: Caniac2000
If Mrazek stops a beachball, Carolina are contenders. Mark my words. They are literally a goalie away


From contending for a playoff spot yes. For the cup? Not yet, they need way more scoring to compete with teams like TO and Tampa. They can roll out 4 lines that can score a tonne and even the best defences will be taxed. They are just too deep. Try to shut down Matthews and then you have to face Tavares, somehow manage to slow down those two and Kadri's line is out against 3rd liners. Stop the top 3 lines, well the 4th line will likely have 2 former 20 goal scorers.

Carolina will get there, but they have a couple of years of developing their forwards before they are a cup contender.
Jul 12, 2018 at 2:30
#23
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 17,975
Likes: 5,320
Quoting: Caniac2000
I'm not stupid I know Hamilton and Pesce aren't nearly worth Matthews or Marner, I'm just giving you an idea of how leafs fans are portraying a deal for a D man rn


Ok so Matthews and Marner of course but Nylander...now way? He's garbage? Are we talking about William Nylander here? OK there is an argument to be said that he is not quite on the same level as the other two but we're not talking the difference between Ryan Reaves and Mario Lemieux here..


Nylander is a 22 year old stud also. Him straight up for anyone of those dmen isn't a stretch. No one is forcing you to accept it but its not a bad offer either. You make it sound like its an insult. That's whats ridiculous.
Jul 12, 2018 at 2:31
#24
BigBeardBurns
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,350
Likes: 535
If this is a joke, it wasnt funny, but if u really believe this, I think there’s a guillotine somewhere in Toronto that has ur name on it...
Jul 12, 2018 at 2:35
#25
Thread Starter
Miss the Thrashers
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 9,203
Likes: 1,990
Quoting: BigBeardBurns
If this is a joke, it wasnt funny, but if u really believe this, I think there’s a guillotine somewhere in Toronto that has ur name on it...


Thanks bro <3
 
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