Forums/NHL Trades

(CHI / ARI) - Krüger, Entwistle, Maletta, Campbell for Hossa, Hinostroza, Oesterle

Who won the trade?
The chart has been hidden

Poll Options

 

Jul 23 at 1:11 PM
#51
All Together Now
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 12
Likes: 1
One thing that hasn't been discussed, the (unlikely) scenario where Hossa retires before his contract is done. If he does, then Chicago is hit by (if my math is correct) an $8m cap recapture penalty. And because he was traded, that amount is static until his contract term is done. Arizona can take the recapture penalty, the Hawks cannot. There is simply no room if Bowman signs anyone else (which is seeming less and less likely with each passing day).

Now, bear in mind that this is very unlikely, as everyone benefits if Hossa doesn't retire. The Yotes hit the salary floor, Hossa gets paid, and the Hawks get cap relief. Everyone wins...except Blackhawks fans.

You lost this trade. Giving up Hinestroza (an NHL caliber player with a point every other game last season) and Oesterle (a great defensive prospect who looks to make an impact within a few years) and a 3rd round pick for Kruger (a fourth-line center that you gave up last year for free) Entwistle (an unsigned AHL level player), Maletta (a decent prospect), Campbell (a 30-year-old who has less than 40 NHL games played and seems likely to only be called up in emergencies) and a 5th round pick? Doesn't look like Bowman won the trade. Is he trying to get fired? Because all of his moves this offseason could only be made by a GM that hates his job.

But I have no sympathies for you Hawks fans. After all, I bleed blue. So instead of being angry at Bowman, I'm laughing. Because this is HILARIOUS.
Jul 23 at 4:58 PM
#52
Sensible Commentary
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 584
Likes: 145
Quoting: Gearhead
One thing that hasn't been discussed, the (unlikely) scenario where Hossa retires before his contract is done. If he does, then Chicago is hit by (if my math is correct) an $8m cap recapture penalty. And because he was traded, that amount is static until his contract term is done. Arizona can take the recapture penalty, the Hawks cannot. There is simply no room if Bowman signs anyone else (which is seeming less and less likely with each passing day).

Now, bear in mind that this is very unlikely, as everyone benefits if Hossa doesn't retire. The Yotes hit the salary floor, Hossa gets paid, and the Hawks get cap relief. Everyone wins...except Blackhawks fans.

You lost this trade. Giving up Hinestroza (an NHL caliber player with a point every other game last season) and Oesterle (a great defensive prospect who looks to make an impact within a few years) and a 3rd round pick for Kruger (a fourth-line center that you gave up last year for free) Entwistle (an unsigned AHL level player), Maletta (a decent prospect), Campbell (a 30-year-old who has less than 40 NHL games played and seems likely to only be called up in emergencies) and a 5th round pick? Doesn't look like Bowman won the trade. Is he trying to get fired? Because all of his moves this offseason could only be made by a GM that hates his job.

But I have no sympathies for you Hawks fans. After all, I bleed blue. So instead of being angry at Bowman, I'm laughing. Because this is HILARIOUS.
mmmm, let's pump the brakes on these player evals for a sec (and I like the Coyotes more than the Blackhawks, in case we're going to sling around bias accusations).

Vinnie Hinostroza: "an NHL caliber player with a point every other game last season" while this is is true, and his point progression at the AHL level seems to indicate he's too good for the AHL, he's still only played 106 NHL games, so the sample size isn't *that* large. Chayka's taking the bet that McPhee did with Vegas: give some players buried in the depth chart an opportunity, and maybe they'll shine.

Jordan Oesterle: "a great defensive prospect who looks to make an impact within a few years" he's 26 and has played 157 AHL games and 80 NHL games over the past 4 seasons. I think it's safe to say he's out of "prospect" range and into "maybe he's just a depth guy" range. frankly, he's going to be the #7 on this Coyotes defensive roster, anyway; he's probably about on par with Kevin Connauton.

Marcus Krüger: "a fourth-line center that you gave up last year for free" ...true. don't make it sound like he's *that* washed-up, though; dude played with a sports hernia for, like, the entirety of last season.

MacKenzie Entwistle: "an unsigned AHL level player" it's a bit soon to make that claim, though his scoring numbers in the OHL aren't the most encouraging.

Jordan Maletta: "a decent prospect" ehhhhh he seems like the AHL-level player that you claimed Entwistle was, given his scoring numbers in the AHL over the past 2 years.

Andrew Campbell: "a 30-year-old who has less than 40 NHL games played and seems likely to only be called up in emergencies" Campbell's very much here only for the AHL roster; he was captain of the Roadrunners last year and of the Marlies for the 2 years before that.
Jul 23 at 8:18 PM
#53
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 19,388
Likes: 2,332
I believe the reason the Hawks had to give Arizona some sweeeteners is because of the possibility that Hossa is deemed medically fit at some time. Then he wouldn't be on IR and Arizona would be responsible for his cap, though just a nominal 1m a year in pay. Hossa could not afford Hossa's cap if he returned to play.
Some one mentioned the Leafs "shenanigans" with LTIR. It wasn't the cap hit but it was how Lupul was able to stay on LTIR for years. But that decision was made by Lupul and the NHL. Leafs were sweating last fall when Lupul had his medical, he failed so the Leafs got the cap benefit. If he passed medically the Leafs would have sent him to minors and the Leafs would have 4.25m cap hit. Of course Lupul didn't want to ride the buses in AHL, so his motivation to pass the medical was minimal.
Jul 23 at 11:49 PM
#54
Caps GM v3
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,234
Likes: 1,784
I will say this about the Hawks cap situation: as much as the team is in trouble right now and looks to be stuck in no man's land for some time, there's a reason that they're in this position. That reason is that they won three damn Cups in 6 years. That's better than any team can say in a long time. I'd love for my team to be in this scenario right now if we had three Cups this decade. They got their hardware, and now they're dealing with the issues that come with it. But at the end of the day, their names are on the Stanley Cup three times, so is it worth it? I think so.
A_K liked this.
Jul 25 at 6:59 PM
#55
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 19,388
Likes: 2,332
Quoting: krakowitz
I will say this about the Hawks cap situation: as much as the team is in trouble right now and looks to be stuck in no man's land for some time, there's a reason that they're in this position. That reason is that they won three damn Cups in 6 years. That's better than any team can say in a long time. I'd love for my team to be in this scenario right now if we had three Cups this decade. They got their hardware, and now they're dealing with the issues that come with it. But at the end of the day, their names are on the Stanley Cup three times, so is it worth it? I think so.


You're right. When Kanes and Toews got extended there was this thought the NHL was going to have to larger rising cap. Look what Wings did. When the cap didn't rise as much as expected, those two 10.5m contracts look somewhat daunting. Maybe the only bad cap decision the Hawks did was the final contract to Seabrook....that one hurts.
Aug 14 at 11:09 PM
#56
HawksFan28
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,070
Likes: 134
Edited Aug 14 at 11:38 PM
Quoting: Gearhead
One thing that hasn't been discussed, the (unlikely) scenario where Hossa retires before his contract is done. If he does, then Chicago is hit by (if my math is correct) an $8m cap recapture penalty. And because he was traded, that amount is static until his contract term is done. Arizona can take the recapture penalty, the Hawks cannot. There is simply no room if Bowman signs anyone else (which is seeming less and less likely with each passing day).

Now, bear in mind that this is very unlikely, as everyone benefits if Hossa doesn't retire. The Yotes hit the salary floor, Hossa gets paid, and the Hawks get cap relief. Everyone wins...except Blackhawks fans.

You lost this trade. Giving up Hinestroza (an NHL caliber player with a point every other game last season) and Oesterle (a great defensive prospect who looks to make an impact within a few years) and a 3rd round pick for Kruger (a fourth-line center that you gave up last year for free) Entwistle (an unsigned AHL level player), Maletta (a decent prospect), Campbell (a 30-year-old who has less than 40 NHL games played and seems likely to only be called up in emergencies) and a 5th round pick? Doesn't look like Bowman won the trade. Is he trying to get fired? Because all of his moves this offseason could only be made by a GM that hates his job.

But I have no sympathies for you Hawks fans. After all, I bleed blue. So instead of being angry at Bowman, I'm laughing. Because this is HILARIOUS.


Hossa's not going to retire, he's getting a million dollars a year for doing basically nothing... If he retired he wouldn't get the million - not to mention he would never do that to the Hawks... No player will ever do that considering it's a dick move and a players would be giving up lots of $$$ doing something foolish like that.
Aug 14 at 11:37 PM
#57
HawksFan28
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,070
Likes: 134
Quoting: krakowitz
I will say this about the Hawks cap situation: as much as the team is in trouble right now and looks to be stuck in no man's land for some time, there's a reason that they're in this position. That reason is that they won three damn Cups in 6 years. That's better than any team can say in a long time. I'd love for my team to be in this scenario right now if we had three Cups this decade. They got their hardware, and now they're dealing with the issues that come with it. But at the end of the day, their names are on the Stanley Cup three times, so is it worth it? I think so.


I think it's funny.....

The Hawks will be fine....

I got news for some - Hinostroza is nothing special - not only that but the Hawks have MANY MANY MANY prospects that have more than enough potential to be very very good bottom 6 players.... The only real problem the Hawks have is the fact they don't have any top goalie prospects, but other than that this team has a bright future - and when I say future I mean like being as good as they were in 2010 and beyond in the next couple of years....

The Hawks know how to develop players - Hinostroza is proof which is why I find this thread a bit ironic - because the same brass and system that drafted and developed him (6th round pick, 169th overall) has a boatload of prospects in the system that have WAY MORE TALENT than Hinostroza.... Look at the Hawks draft record, look at who they have drafted and WHERE the Hawks drafted.... The Hawks have no business having half the talent they do, but they do because they draft well and they give their prospects all the time they need to develop..

In 2018 alone the Hawks basically got 4 first round picks in Boqvist, Beaudin, Wise & Nordgren... Obviously Boqvist & Beaudin were first round picks, however Wise was projected to go in the first round but he got injured and that lowered his draft stock -- and Nordgren has first round talent he just doesn't have first round size, and the Hawks took advantage of that like they did with DeBrincat... In the 2018 draft alone the Hawks got 2 top 2 defenseman and 2 top 6 forwards .....

I've been following the Hawks and hockey in general for 30 years and I have seen some terrible teams, and hopeless teams that had no future -- the present Hawks aren't one of those teams.

As far as this season, the Hawks aren't nearly as bad as some make them out to be... I think Hawks haters really just like bashing the Hawks and this is the first time in their lives they've been able to criticize the Hawks without being laughed at.... The "issues" right now with this team is defense and goaltending, but defense is more like a wild card because it's more unknown than a problem.... Goaltending certainly is a problem. If Crow is done the Hawks may have a problem unless one of their later round goalie picks can come out of nowhere -- it's not impossible and I trust the Hawks brass when it comes to talent, and goaltending is one of those positions where a 7th round pick turns out to be better than the first goalie taken in the draft, but right now the Hawks have no one , but you never know perhaps Delia, Forsberg or Lankinen come to camp and stun, because to be honest I really doubt Crawford will be back, and if one of these kids can outplay Ward they may find themselves starting for the Hawks and getting the confidence that comes with being a starting goalie in the NHL.

With that said, the Hawks have some problems presently but NOTHING even remotely close to what could be considered hopeless or long-term..... In 5 years this will be 2012-13 all over again for the Hawks.
Aug 14 at 11:50 PM
#58
HawksFan28
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,070
Likes: 134
Quoting: palhal
I believe the reason the Hawks had to give Arizona some sweeeteners is because of the possibility that Hossa is deemed medically fit at some time. Then he wouldn't be on IR and Arizona would be responsible for his cap, though just a nominal 1m a year in pay. Hossa could not afford Hossa's cap if he returned to play.
Some one mentioned the Leafs "shenanigans" with LTIR. It wasn't the cap hit but it was how Lupul was able to stay on LTIR for years. But that decision was made by Lupul and the NHL. Leafs were sweating last fall when Lupul had his medical, he failed so the Leafs got the cap benefit. If he passed medically the Leafs would have sent him to minors and the Leafs would have 4.25m cap hit. Of course Lupul didn't want to ride the buses in AHL, so his motivation to pass the medical was minimal.


I see this trade as fair...... The Hawks missed Kruger's defense tremendously and it showed, not only that but the Hawks got Entwhistle, who is a big kid with great potential - he was someone Bowman wanted to draft... IMO, Bowman got everything he wanted..

I mean Hinostroza is as good as he will ever be - he's not going to develop anymore.... The Hawks got 4 million more in cap space, a player they could really use now and a nice prospect with decent upside, and they lost what? Hinostroza and Oesterle?... A 3rd line winger and a 5th-6th defenseman (at best).... Bowman got what he wanted, Chekya got what he wanted. It's a fair deal.

If it matters I like Hinostroza, but the Hawks got a decent return and I think they will be a better team with Kruger than with Hinostroza... On ice the Hawks needed a true shutdown center, and that's exactly what they got.
Aug 15 at 2:29 AM
#59
Caps GM v3
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7,234
Likes: 1,784
Quoting: HawksFan28
I see this trade as fair...... The Hawks missed Kruger's defense tremendously and it showed, not only that but the Hawks got Entwhistle, who is a big kid with great potential - he was someone Bowman wanted to draft... IMO, Bowman got everything he wanted..

I mean Hinostroza is as good as he will ever be - he's not going to develop anymore.... The Hawks got 4 million more in cap space, a player they could really use now and a nice prospect with decent upside, and they lost what? Hinostroza and Oesterle?... A 3rd line winger and a 5th-6th defenseman (at best).... Bowman got what he wanted, Chekya got what he wanted. It's a fair deal.

If it matters I like Hinostroza, but the Hawks got a decent return and I think they will be a better team with Kruger than with Hinostroza... On ice the Hawks needed a true shutdown center, and that's exactly what they got.


Let’s look at Chicago’s offseason, shall we?

Additions: Chris Kunitz, Marcus Kruger, Brandon Manning, Cam Ward
Subtractions: Vinnie Hinostroza, Jordan Oesterle, Anthony Duclair

And you expect this team to be a legit Cup contender? Stop, you’re making yourself look bad. Entwistle also has very limited NHL upside. Not sure what this “great potential” you see in him is, other than the fact that he’s a Blackhawk. Hinostroza scored at about a 40 point pace for an entire season, and you act like he’s nothing. This is on a team already needing secondary scoring. I don’t know why I even engage with you anymore, because you’re just going to explain these dumbass reasonings again
Aug 22 at 4:39 PM
#60
Go Jets Go!!
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 12
Likes: 3
Serious why do teams like Arizona help out cash strapped teams close to the cap? Punish those teams and let them not be able to sign free agents in the summer. I know you get extra assets in picks for taking on bad contracts but geesh. If teams would let them fight the cap then maybe those GM's/Owners might actually learn a lesson or two.... sigh.
Aug 23 at 9:05 PM
#61
Sensible Commentary
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 584
Likes: 145
Quoting: weirfanno1
Serious why do teams like Arizona help out cash strapped teams close to the cap? Punish those teams and let them not be able to sign free agents in the summer. I know you get extra assets in picks for taking on bad contracts but geesh. If teams would let them fight the cap then maybe those GM's/Owners might actually learn a lesson or two.... sigh.
Arizona "helped out" Detroit by taking on Pavel Datsyuk's contract and moving up from 20 to 16 to nab Jakob Chychrun. Detroit then pissed away all that cap space on Danny DeKeyser and Frans Nielsen. Chicago's managed to mostly prevent themselves from doing that, but Bowman used the cap space savings from Hossa to sign... Brandon Manning, Cam Ward, and Chris Kunitz.
Aug 24 at 10:02 AM
#62
Go Jets Go!!
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 12
Likes: 3
Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid
Arizona "helped out" Detroit by taking on Pavel Datsyuk's contract and moving up from 20 to 16 to nab Jakob Chychrun. Detroit then pissed away all that cap space on Danny DeKeyser and Frans Nielsen. Chicago's managed to mostly prevent themselves from doing that, but Bowman used the cap space savings from Hossa to sign... Brandon Manning, Cam Ward, and Chris Kunitz.


Exactly. Stop helping out other teams so they can fill out there roster. So frustrating. If you can't manage your cap properly you shouldn't be a NHL GM.
Aug 24 at 1:29 PM
#63
Sensible Commentary
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 584
Likes: 145
Quoting: weirfanno1
Exactly. Stop helping out other teams so they can fill out there roster. So frustrating. If you can't manage your cap properly you shouldn't be a NHL GM.
mmmmmmm, not quite my point. Chayka technically helped Holland and Bowman, but then they squandered that benefit with questionable decision-making. They may have filled out their rosters, but they did so inefficiently and with players that aren't projected to give them their money's worth. Sometimes, having more cap space than usual is a GM's worst enemy.
weirfanno1 liked this.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Submit Poll Edit