Why would you give up Nylander ++ for Subban? He is not worth that..

Massive overpay for Subban, he's not worth Nylander ++. Also you get Subban, who is a RHD, and you don't play him on the right side??

Subban is an amazing player and would make TO a lot better of a team, with that said, you don't give up a 22 year old with point a game potential for a 29 year old who will likely be asking for Doughty money next season.

Subban will be another example of a player who is going to get way too much money at way too late of a stage in his career. He should sign a 2 year deal next at 8 million a season and then another 2 year deal at 6 and then 3 at 4 to finish off his career but someone will give him 8 years at 10 million a year and he'll be declining in each of those years.

You know he's signed for 4 More years right?

I was totally mistaken. I'll still stand by my remarks about trading a 22 year old for a 29 year old. Nylander has his entire prime ahead of him, Subban is leaving his.

The Leafs need a defenceman who knows how to play sound defense. Subban is not a guy they should be targeting.

Yes he is, Norris caliber dmen cost
Plus he gives cost certainty, Whereas Gardiner is a UFA
Even if stays at 4m him plus Nylander at around 7m, thats 2m less ( Cap Saving )
Plus I have a 4th coming back
Honestly It might not be enough, let alone too much

He is not worth Kucherov calibre 22-yr old player, 50pt defender and depth D.. Yes he is norris calibre defender, but he is offensive defender and LEAFS DONT NEED OFFENSIVE DEFENDERS..
If you are targeting Subban you are going after his shot, vision and generally speaking for his offence.. In terms of offence do you know Gardiner had just 4 points less than Subban in last 2 seasons and in this one Gardiner is going to overcome Subban offensively in terms of points. Gardiner may very likely have Carlson kind of season because its his contract year and he would play greatly. Just watch.. what is the 2 things Subban has that Gardiner hasnt? Hitting and name...

Precisely why I'm trading Gardiner

Good you're trading Gardiner. You still haven't got anybody coming back to clean up their own zone.

Just watch is right
Gardiner is a giveaway machine
A big part of the reason we lost in the first round

Offensive defencemen often giveaway the puck since they almost always have it. But I would not call Gardiner a turnover machine.. why? Since 2011/2012 season (not counting 12/13 season where Jake didnt played that much) until now PK Subban (who is norris calibre D) had 548 giveaways in 461 NHL games which results in 1.18 giveaway per game. Gardiner (who you called turnover machine and player who should be traded) had 465 giveaways in 477 NHL games which results in 0.97 giveaways per game. Thats just for your argument that Gardiner is turnover machine, that means Subban is too, Karlsson is too, Burns is too.. thats so dumb man.. And yes he was part of the reason why we lost in the 1st round, yes it was his worst game of his career but if you go down, go down as a team, and win as a team. This is what Babs was talking about with PAIN. These early exits. Yes they hurt but they teach you a lot. To not take great regular season for granted, to battle hard. Players who battled hardest in playoffs were the most productive.. Gardiner had nightmare of a game but we should throw it away, we should concentrate on our next playoffs, we should take this as a lesson! And learn from it! Expect everybody to be better. Even Babs.. stop bashing about Gardiner..