Like I said he’s had and overpaid like Wilson

I've proved you wrong in every area your saying tom Wilson didn't produce but you still ignore it there now point in talking to you


he clearly produced in juniors. I just showed you this

3.25 million is almost 2 million less than Wilson and at best Johnson is a bottom pairing guy that won't hurt you. At worse, he's a bottom pairing guy who shouldn't play against good opposition.

At best Wilson is a bottom 6 forward who can do adequate work higher in the lineup but lacks the skills to justify playing with such good linemates. At worst Wilson is a 4th liner physical energy guy who can provide energy with big hits throughout the game.

You should me how he scored the 5th most points on his team one year in Junior. That occured after he was drafted making him an over ager. The only thing you are proving is that you are going to overlook all evidence showing this is a mistake and cling to outlier information to make the case that Wilson is definitely going to score 30 goals and be a 60 point guy! Because he's never done that before but he's only 24 so he has upside. Where is this upside? Where did he show it? When he was 15? He's 24 and hasn't shown this high end scoring ever again. But now that he's making over 5 million a season, I guess we'll see the real Tom Wilson.

You again are turning your back to the point buddy. Zucker was drafted for scoring, and he was a scorer in every level he played and then became a scorer in the NHL. Wilson isn't that, he's a guy who was a grinder and now you are expecting him to be a scorer.

I sent you his junior stats he was drafted based off those numbers where he was above a ppg player holy **** you are so dumb .........wilson I literally did the work for you score 44 goals and 23 goals in juniors....he didn't go to college or play Ahl........

I can't with you I really can't only thing I can say AGAIN is at the same age zucker was out produced by Wilson by 12 points

What matters is Major Junior, and the AHL.

He never went to the AHL but he never was a prolific scorer in Major Junior. His best year coming after he was drafted where he wasn't the best on his team. And yet you are sitting here saying he scored a lot when he was 15! So did Alexander Daigle. You're just a jilted fan who supports the caps no matter what, this year you lifted the cup and that was awesome. But that doesn't mean all your players are all stars. Wilson should be paid 3 million tops. He's proven himself to be a bottom 6 physical winger and you can find 5 of them for the same price as Wilson. Many of those guys will be much better penalty killers or better skaters and could argue to be worth more than Wilson.

But seriously, don't use ammo unless you are willing to live with the counter points that come with using outlier info as your basis for making him look like a scorer.

The comparable when I think of Wilson is Uncle Leo. A game changer, sure. Penalty killer, yeah. Scored a half decent season of points a few years back, yup. Worth a penny over 3 mill? Not a chance man. Game changers are fine, but he is easily being paid the salary of two of those players. They should have put that money towards a center/defense/or secondary scoring. You can't even say this guy gives you secondary scoring. I just dont get it man. No matter how you slice it, thats an over pay.

The comparable when I think of Wilson is Uncle Leo. A game changer, sure. Penalty killer, yeah. Scored a half decent season of points a few years back, yup. Worth a penny over 3 mill? Not a chance man. Game changers are fine, but he is easily being paid the salary of two of those players. They should have put that money towards a center/defense/or secondary scoring. You can't even say this guy gives you secondary scoring. I just dont get it man. No matter how you slice it, thats an over pay.

The comparable when I think of Wilson is Uncle Leo. A game changer, sure. Penalty killer, yeah. Scored a half decent season of points a few years back, yup. Worth a penny over 3 mill? Not a chance man. Game changers are fine, but he is easily being paid the salary of two of those players. They should have put that money towards a center/defense/or secondary scoring. You can't even say this guy gives you secondary scoring. I just dont get it man. No matter how you slice it, thats an over pay.

It's an overpayment, but Wilson is much better than all the haters make him out to be. If he continues to develop at a reasonable rate, he'll be an effective top-6 winger with a dominating physical game. The contract is a gamble, but one with a good chance to pay off.

The reason why I disagree is this. Hyman from the leafs. Hyman is a decent guy in the face off circle, quietly put up over 40 points, kills penalties and above all else "he's a player that creates space and retrieves pucks, aggressive forechecking". Leafs get all of that (and yes I am comparing them and saying Hyman is better except for the "getting into opponents heads" argument I've been seeing everywhere) and they're spending well bellow 3 mill. Thats all I am saying.

hyman played an entire year w Matthews ......wilson is going to get that chance this season. also hyman is going to get paid after his current bridge deal which Wilson already had.

And in 3 years when that deal is up for Hyman, he'll sign another one around 3 million a year or he'll walk because the Leafs know that Matthews and Tavares are the reason he scores points. What he is by himself is a defensively sound, aggressive forechecker who can keep up with anyone and works hard. He also is an extremely good penalty killer. He's basically everything you are arguing Wilson to be but is price accordingly. Hyman is not worth more than 2.5 million. Ever.

ha I disagree but again well see how he does in a 1st line role for 82 games not just 25 + playoffs

What are you disagreeing with? That Hyman won't get more from the Leafs than what he's worth? Or that Hyman isn't worth only 2.5 million? I don't understand what you are disagreeing with here?

hyman plays top line he simply signed a bridge deal leafs will pay him 4 million Imo...if they don't someone will. Reeves got close to that so yeah he will.....

And the Reeves contract is hilariously bad. The Leafs had a Tom Wilson on their team, his name was Matt Martin, and they traded him because he wasn't good enough to make their roster let alone the top line. Hyman will not make more than he does because the Leafs develop players so they'll replace Hyman with a cheap replacement the moment he prices himself out of his position.

Also Hyman's current contract isn't a bridge deal, its a fair market value deal. All his points are attributed to his linemates and he gets paid for the job he does, not the job others do for him.

haha again well see I mean bridge deals look a lot like this........I highly doubt his next deal is close to this one

Which is why I say TO won't bring him back then. Here is the how you build a winning team. You get a core of elite players, then you surround them with players that can help them win but are affordable. Its not too hard to find depth, but its very hard to find the elite players. Especially elite centres. When you find them, they are the ones who earn the money. If you instead give big term and money to support guys who quickly have a lineup of contracts that can't be traded because they are not even close to what the player offers. Chicago has done this several times with guys like Kruger we can use as an example. Playoff heros who get huge money that they can't live up to. If Wilson scores even what he did last year, he's overpaid. For this deal to make any sense he has to develop into a 20-30 goal scorer when he's shown he's a 10 goal scorer on the 4th line.

Hyman is never going to be a top winger, he's never going to be more than what he is. Which is a very good penalty killer and an elite forechecker. Those skills will make him a millionaire but they shouldn't give him 5 million a season, that would be hilariously bad.

haha build off this

to core

jt ........11 million
Matthews 11 million
Nylander 8 million
marner 8 million
Reilly 5 million
Zaitsev 4.5 million
Andersen 5 million


so 52.5 million tied up in 4 forwards and 2 dman AND a goalie...... and those 2 dmen 1 is great the other is average......so that leaves you 30 million to sign 15 players roughly assuming the cap goes up to 82 million ......yeah that works when your core isn't getting max contracts

this also doesn't include that overpayment for pm

You are literally the only person on this planet who considers Zaitsev part of the core.

But I don't see a problem there. Toronto has the best centre ice depth in hockey. They will have the best offence in hockey. And their defence is better than what Pittsburgh had when they won 3 years ago. Justin Schultz was their number 1 that year and he'd be number 4 on TO right now.

Also get used to this model of team building because it will become the norm in the near future.

Pittsburgh had a similar design but have spent some poor money recently. (Jack Johnson) But they had elite players and when a younger player price themselves out of the teams payroll structure they were traded. (James Neal) TO will do the same thing and since they spend so much money and resources on developing players they'll constantly have a pipeline of good players to make the team strong.

If Kapanen scores 30 goals in a contract year, they can trade him for cheaper and younger assets who can step in and benefit from playing with the elite forwards TO has for the long term.

When the best burn you can come up with is TO has too many great players, you are kind of making the counterpoint for the other side of the argument.

hahaha "Toronto has the best centre ice depth in hockey" Pittsburgh kills tml its not even close. I'm embarrassed for you. the caps are on the same level as tml. might actually have a leg up

Crosby > jt
malkin> Matthews
brassard> kadri
she hands > ..... Lindholm

yeah.......

kuzy = Matthews
backstrom = jt
eller < kadri
Boyd ??? Lindholm

I was generous and saying = bc it would be bias to go one over the other

How long will Crosby and Malkin be super elites? They are great players still but they are in their 30's, these players have played their best hockey. Not saying its necessarily happening this season but eventually and not too far into the future they won't be considered among the best in the game.

Tavares has never had a good linemate. He's made decent players look great. (Matt Moulson, Okoposo, Josh Bailey, Anders Lee) What is he going to do playing with an elite offensive talent like Mitch Marner? Matthews has scored the 13th most 5v5 goals over the past 3 years. HE'S PLAYED IN ONLY 2 OF THOSE 3 SEASONS.

Matthews has accomplished a lot more in his first 2 seasons than Kuznetsov did and Backstrom is moving into his 30's, how long will he be an all star.

Tavares = Backstrom (I'm being fair with that assessment because Backstrom had the privilege of having the best goal scorer ever on his line for most of his career. Tavares hasn't had that luxury but has still put up comparable points)
Matthews > Kuznetsov and this will become more apparent every year moving forward. Matthews will be a top 5 player in the world within 3 years. Kuznetsov has peaked, he's great don't get me wrong, he's just not going to get much better than what he is now. Matthews will get much better.
Kadri > Ellers This one isn't even close. Kadri has scored back to back 30 goal seasons. End of discussion.
4th liners really don't matter when you have 3 centres as good as TO has.

haha backstrom broke 100 points and just 2 years ago finished in the top 5 in points. have Matthews done that yet?

last 2 season

backstrom haas the 10th most points
kuzy is 25th
Matthews is 34th?

oh yeah they both won a cup kuzy lead his team in points also

good point dummy again