SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/NHL

Cody Ceci is Insane

Jul. 30, 2018 at 5:31 p.m.
#1
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 7,711
Likes: 2,820
Cody Ceci wants 6M per year for his next contract. Let that sink in. He wants to get paid as much as Matt Dumba and more than Jacob Trouba. Luckily, Ottawa aren't as insane as Ceci offering 3.35M. Let me break this down.

Cody Ceci, a defenseman that does this (graph below), wants to get paid more than 2/3 defenseman such as Manson, Trouba, McDonagh, Skjei, Leddy, etc.

cecixco93

Getting paid 6M will make him tied for the 17th highest paid defenseman behind Yandle, Pietrangelo, and Karlsson and tied with Boychuk, Green, and Johnson. He would also get paid more than Hamilton, Keith and Niskanen.

For even more of a comparison, his contract would take about 7.5% of the cap space which is around the same as Dumba, Parayko, and Jones. Yes, a guy that puts up horrible Corsi and Fenwick, drags his team down offensively and defensively and not being able to supress shots if his life depended on it wants as much as the previously mentioned players who have proven themselves both offensively by racking up points and putting up solid defensive numbers.

Brayden Coburn at 3.7M is starting to sound good....
Jul. 30, 2018 at 5:53 p.m.
#2
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2017
Posts: 123
Likes: 59
He will probably get 4,675 million for one year. The arbitrator will split the difference. But everyone in Ottawa will want to get overpaid after how badly they were treated.
Jul. 30, 2018 at 6:32 p.m.
#3
Black Lives Matter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 29,915
Likes: 4,649
Quoting: BoltsPoint21
Cody Ceci wants 6M per year for his next contract. Let that sink in. He wants to get paid as much as Matt Dumba and more than Jacob Trouba. Luckily, Ottawa aren't as insane as Ceci offering 3.35M. Let me break this down.

Cody Ceci, a defenseman that does this (graph below), wants to get paid more than 2/3 defenseman such as Manson, Trouba, McDonagh, Skjei, Leddy, etc.

cecixco93

Getting paid 6M will make him tied for the 17th highest paid defenseman behind Yandle, Pietrangelo, and Karlsson and tied with Boychuk, Green, and Johnson. He would also get paid more than Hamilton, Keith and Niskanen.

For even more of a comparison, his contract would take about 7.5% of the cap space which is around the same as Dumba, Parayko, and Jones. Yes, a guy that puts up horrible Corsi and Fenwick, drags his team down offensively and defensively and not being able to supress shots if his life depended on it wants as much as the previously mentioned players who have proven themselves both offensively by racking up points and putting up solid defensive numbers.

Brayden Coburn at 3.7M is starting to sound good....


I don't want to learn how to read those stats ... i don't understand them. Ceci is a good player with top 4 potential. I've always thought Ceci has underrated potential, as i've mentioned many times. However, he hasn't proven that he's a 6M type player yet. He knows he's not getting 6M per year. He's not a draft bust yet, but he might be going in that direction.
Jul. 30, 2018 at 6:45 p.m.
#4
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 7,711
Likes: 2,820
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I don't want to learn how to read those stats ... i don't understand them. Ceci is a good player with top 4 potential. I've always thought Ceci has underrated potential, as i've mentioned many times. However, he hasn't proven that he's a 6M type player yet. He knows he's not getting 6M per year. He's not a draft bust yet, but he might be going in that direction.


Bottom left means low amount of shot generation and terrible shot suppression. Top right means high amount of shot generation and terrible shot suppression.

The red is x player without Ceci.
The blue is Ceci without x player.
The black is Ceci with x player.

The chart says Ottawa is better without Ceci
Jul. 30, 2018 at 6:49 p.m.
#5
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 7,711
Likes: 2,820
Quoting: BoltsPoint21
Bottom left means low amount of shot generation and terrible shot suppression. Top right means high amount of shot generation and terrible shot suppression.

The red is x player without Ceci.
The blue is Ceci without x player.
The black is Ceci with x player.

The chart says Ottawa is better without Ceci


In easier to read stats for you, Ceci's CF% rel and FF% rel is among the worst on a very poor Ottawa.
Jul. 30, 2018 at 6:50 p.m.
#6
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 7,711
Likes: 2,820
Red = higher amount of shots
Blue = lower amount of shots

cecixco93
cecixco93
Jul. 30, 2018 at 7:16 p.m.
#7
Habs/Pens fan
Avatar of the user
Joined: Oct. 2017
Posts: 852
Likes: 273
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I don't want to learn how to read those stats ... i don't understand them. Ceci is a good player with top 4 potential. I've always thought Ceci has underrated potential, as i've mentioned many times. However, he hasn't proven that he's a 6M type player yet. He knows he's not getting 6M per year. He's not a draft bust yet, but he might be going in that direction.


Ceci, is used wrong in Ottawa, he's a good number 4. Boucher used him in a shut down role or dragging Phaneuf a**. If I were his coach I'd put him in a sheltered role with a good defensive defenseman (Dumoulin). He's more of an offensive defenseman than a shutdown guy. He also plays too much.
Jul. 30, 2018 at 7:17 p.m.
#8
Habs/Pens fan
Avatar of the user
Joined: Oct. 2017
Posts: 852
Likes: 273
However 6 million is ridiculous.
Jul. 30, 2018 at 8:04 p.m.
#9
Emotionally in 2018
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2016
Posts: 9,290
Likes: 3,387
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I don't want to learn how to read those stats ... i don't understand them. Ceci is a good player with top 4 potential. I've always thought Ceci has underrated potential, as i've mentioned many times. However, he hasn't proven that he's a 6M type player yet. He knows he's not getting 6M per year. He's not a draft bust yet, but he might be going in that direction.


You realize that what you’re saying has absolutely no meaning since you can’t accept these other opinions? I always prefer to use the eye test over analytics, but for players that I don’t watch all that much, these charts are extremely useful. But it doesn’t matter if you use the eye-test or analytics. He’s not good.

He wants more money than Colton Parayko, Seth Jones, Jacob Trouba, Dougie Hamilton and Brady Skjei, just to name a few. This is a player that I wouldn’t pay any more than $1M to be in a #6 role at most. You need to be willing to listen to what other people have to say instead of shooting down the argument because you say he’s underrated, even though I don’t think you know a thing about the player.
PrincessChloe and LicMysak liked this.
Jul. 30, 2018 at 8:51 p.m.
#10
Black Lives Matter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 29,915
Likes: 4,649
Quoting: BoltsPoint21
Bottom left means low amount of shot generation and terrible shot suppression. Top right means high amount of shot generation and terrible shot suppression.

The red is x player without Ceci.
The blue is Ceci without x player.
The black is Ceci with x player.

The chart says Ottawa is better without Ceci


I said i don't want to learn how to read those stats ... it's too confusing lol.
Jul. 30, 2018 at 8:53 p.m.
#11
Black Lives Matter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 29,915
Likes: 4,649
Quoting: krakowitz
You realize that what you’re saying has absolutely no meaning since you can’t accept these other opinions? I always prefer to use the eye test over analytics, but for players that I don’t watch all that much, these charts are extremely useful. But it doesn’t matter if you use the eye-test or analytics. He’s not good.

He wants more money than Colton Parayko, Seth Jones, Jacob Trouba, Dougie Hamilton and Brady Skjei, just to name a few. This is a player that I wouldn’t pay any more than $1M to be in a #6 role at most. You need to be willing to listen to what other people have to say instead of shooting down the argument because you say he’s underrated, even though I don’t think you know a thing about the player.


I think he has underrated potential. It's too early to call him a draft bust. What i said in that post is pretty much that he's a bottom pairing d-man that is not worth anywhere near 6M.
Jul. 30, 2018 at 9:02 p.m.
#12
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 7,711
Likes: 2,820
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I said i don't want to learn how to read those stats ... it's too confusing lol.


Everything is clearly labeled... Just because you don't want to learn doesn't mean it's not important in player evaluation.
rangersandislesfan liked this.
Jul. 30, 2018 at 9:49 p.m.
#13
Sensible Commentary
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2016
Posts: 910
Likes: 536
Quoting: BoltsPoint21
Everything is clearly labeled... Just because you don't want to learn doesn't mean it's not important in player evaluation.
not that I'm primarily jumping to RAIF's defense, but I will make a note that hockey analytics Twitter has trouble more often than not with clearly communicating concepts through their visualizations to laypeople in a good way.

that being said, Micah Blake McCurdy's visualizations are probably the easiest to figure out of the many types that float around. and anybody that "doesn't want to learn" how to understand these visualizations should at least try instead of sitting there and asking to be spoon-fed conclusions.
Jul. 30, 2018 at 9:56 p.m.
#14
Sensible Commentary
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2016
Posts: 910
Likes: 536
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I think he has underrated potential. It's too early to call him a draft bust. What i said in that post is pretty much that he's a bottom pairing d-man that is not worth anywhere near 6M.
I wouldn't assume Cody Ceci has deluded himself into believing he's worth $6 M. I think he's just trying to make the most of a system that doesn't lean towards readily giving players money, and he's exercising all of his CBA-given rights in order to get as much money as he can.

money, of course, is not everything in life, but if the system's very clearly trying to stiff you so that owners can line their own pockets even more than they already are, then you absolutely should not just lie down and let it happen.
rangersandislesfan liked this.
Jul. 30, 2018 at 11:59 p.m.
#15
Emotionally in 2018
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2016
Posts: 9,290
Likes: 3,387
I will say this — he realistically knows he isn’t getting $6M. He’s most likely trying to start negotiations as high as he can, to hope when they “meet in the middle” it’s as high as possible. But that doesn’t change the fact that this is a ridiculous starting point
Jul. 31, 2018 at 12:51 a.m.
#16
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2015
Posts: 59,072
Likes: 22,466
Quoting: seb
He will probably get 4,675 million for one year. The arbitrator will split the difference. But everyone in Ottawa will want to get overpaid after how badly they were treated.


Arbitrators just don't "split the difference". If that's the case, Ceci should have asked for 14m. But I like you reason why he should be overpaid, kinda like shift premium for working midnights.
rangersandislesfan liked this.
Jul. 31, 2018 at 1:00 a.m.
#17
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2017
Posts: 9,552
Likes: 3,052
Cody Ceci isn’t insane. He’s a smart bast*** looking to cash in on as much dough as possible. Props
DragonRaptorHybrid and Caufzi liked this.
Jul. 31, 2018 at 6:21 a.m.
#18
I'm a Skatman
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 295
I wish we would stop judging players for their arbitration requests EVERY SINGLE TIME
Hockeylover360, DragonRaptorHybrid, rebecca and 1 other person liked this.
Jul. 31, 2018 at 10:43 a.m.
#19
Below Market Value
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2015
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 1,324
I understand starting out with a high asking price, but wew Ceci that is very high relative to what he brings. I agree he is used poorly; he should be a 3rd pairing, sheltered minutes, OZ only, PP2 defenseman. The problem is he doesn't generate a lot of shots even though he is generally an offensive defenseman, so he needs to be very sheltered if you want to get any value out of him. I'm talking Sergachev levels of sheltered.
Jul. 31, 2018 at 10:44 a.m.
#20
Below Market Value
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2015
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 1,324
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I said i don't want to learn how to read those stats ... it's too confusing lol.


Top right = good
Bottom left = bad

You do the math.
Jul. 31, 2018 at 9:12 p.m.
#21
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2017
Posts: 345
Likes: 234
Ottawa will likely look for a 1-year deal and look to flip Ceci at the Trade Deadline.

All Ottawa can do is tank like the Sabres and hope to win a lottery (or three) in the coming years. The Senators may be icing some historically bad teams in the coming years and have no one to blame for it except themselves (with a weaker Cdn dollar thrown in for good measure).

It comes at a time when they are looking for funding for a new arena (as their current arena is literally a 30m (without traffic)drive from downtown and Ottawa isn’t that big to begin with). I hope that they can weather this storm as their history and franchise strength is not as long and strong as other teams. Sure the Quebecers will start circling soon, with the new arena in downtown Quebec City. Bettman would likely approve of a move of a Canadian team to another Canadian City more than a move of a US team.

Beyond his value as a trade commodity, there is nothing to be gained by sticking with Ceci who - as the illustrations shows - is not a net positive player. Objectively speaking his value is in the 3.5-4.5M range as a serviceable 2nd pairing defender. They may take 2y and try to ride out some of the next 2 years with him, even if the cap hit is a bit higher. And I don’t blame Ceci for wanting extra money to be part of a losing squad. He is certainly not going to be acquiring playoff time, or a shot at the Cup so there isn’t much left to play for in Ottawa at this point.

He isn’t a top-pairing defender but he knows that in Ottawa he may be the best they have - at least for the next 2 years - so he will leverage that.
Jul. 31, 2018 at 9:46 p.m.
#22
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2016
Posts: 2,079
Likes: 433
Quoting: rebecca
Ottawa will likely look for a 1-year deal and look to flip Ceci at the Trade Deadline.

All Ottawa can do is tank like the Sabres and hope to win a lottery (or three) in the coming years. The Senators may be icing some historically bad teams in the coming years and have no one to blame for it except themselves (with a weaker Cdn dollar thrown in for good measure).

It comes at a time when they are looking for funding for a new arena (as their current arena is literally a 30m (without traffic)drive from downtown and Ottawa isn’t that big to begin with). I hope that they can weather this storm as their history and franchise strength is not as long and strong as other teams. Sure the Quebecers will start circling soon, with the new arena in downtown Quebec City. Bettman would likely approve of a move of a Canadian team to another Canadian City more than a move of a US team.

Beyond his value as a trade commodity, there is nothing to be gained by sticking with Ceci who - as the illustrations shows - is not a net positive player. Objectively speaking his value is in the 3.5-4.5M range as a serviceable 2nd pairing defender. They may take 2y and try to ride out some of the next 2 years with him, even if the cap hit is a bit higher. And I don’t blame Ceci for wanting extra money to be part of a losing squad. He is certainly not going to be acquiring playoff time, or a shot at the Cup so there isn’t much left to play for in Ottawa at this point.

He isn’t a top-pairing defender but he knows that in Ottawa he may be the best they have - at least for the next 2 years - so he will leverage that.


Ottawa doesn't have a first round pick next year. If they acquire a first round pick via trade it's almost assured to be lottery protected.
Jul. 31, 2018 at 11:22 p.m.
#23
Former Hockey Fan
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2017
Posts: 13,144
Likes: 10,516
Quoting: BoltsPoint21
Bottom left means low amount of shot generation and terrible shot suppression. Top right means high amount of shot generation and terrible shot suppression.

The red is x player without Ceci.
The blue is Ceci without x player.
The black is Ceci with x player.

The chart says Ottawa is better without Ceci


Part of the reason Ottawa is better without Ceci is probably that if he's not on the ice, Erik Karlsson most likely is. I do agree that Ceci's asking for too much, though.
Jul. 31, 2018 at 11:42 p.m.
#24
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2017
Posts: 345
Likes: 234
Quoting: Bflo_Soldier
Ottawa doesn't have a first round pick next year. If they acquire a first round pick via trade it's almost assured to be lottery protected.


Yes, of course. In retrospect I am sure Dorion is regretting that move. With Karlsson & some other pieces on the team for at least part of 2018/19 I don’t think the nadir here yet - but come 2019/20 and 2030/21 well, all bets are off on how bad those teams will be.
Aug. 1, 2018 at 12:12 a.m.
#25
Black Lives Matter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 29,915
Likes: 4,649
Quoting: Bflo_Soldier
Ottawa doesn't have a first round pick next year. If they acquire a first round pick via trade it's almost assured to be lottery protected.


The Isles got a non-lottery protected 1st round pick from Calgary last year in the Hamonic trade.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll