so most Leafs fans dont want to give Nylander 8 million but you would take an aging RW who is slow.... and wont be on LTIR the whole season.
yes you get a Dman but you were already heading to cap Hell this just makes it tougher.

given TML have young players looking to get paid in the coming years Perry's contract going to TML isnt likely without minimum 30% retained.
there is no upside in taking an injured older player who over paid for Manson who in a straight up trade for Nylander would be one of many pieces involved before you even factor in the reward for taking Perry Contract.

when Gaborik ,Hossa and Mason were moved every team involved got rewarded with quality and a bit of quantity when they got Armia and 2 picks to take Mason and buy him out .
taking on Perry i think the conversation starts with Mason and Terry and ends with 2-3 picks minimum going buy the format of other cap dump moves in the past 12 months

I am curious. What is the plan next year, when we still have Perry on the books? And what about performance bonuses? If you account for those, we only have about 1.5 million in space, with Nylander signed (Manson takes up some of that, so say 4 million in space, which is still too little)

Trade Gardiner, trade Zaitsev (-$10 million). Take a tonne of chances to find 2nd pairing D among our prospects. Buy solid dependable 3rd pairing D on 3 year contracts, maybe they don't score but they have no giveaways and mistakes.

Perry will either be a steal and the Leafs Playoffs MVP behind Tavares, or he can retire early like Lupul without a penalty to the team

That is.... Wow not a good idea.....

Zaitsev and Gardiner at their best aren't good enough. They've held the team back and they aren't getting any better. They are too expensive for the role they fill, time to move on.

Perry, if he's healthy, cost incrementally more than Nylander but the savings on Manson relative to market-price dwarf that.

I don't see what's so hard to accept. JVR and Bozak moved on, Kadri stayed at a discount. Everyone else is letting Gardiner walk for nothing, like they can ignore the painful choices just like they ignore the painful losses they don't want to learn from. Accept the situation and make the most of it.


The only difference is I am saying get something in return. I like winning, winning is hard, so bring on the hard choices because the goal is to win it all. You can't stop halfway when you get cold feet, there's no going back to draft another 1st overall to make everything better



This is so ridiculous. Any Ducks fan would be criticizing this trade proposal 6 ways from Sunday and the basic Leafs fan mob are just so timid, they are afraid to consider anything remotely realistic. The Leafs fanbase is infested with a losing culture. Just the worst bubble in all of hockey

This works out very well for the ducks but destroys the leafs... all PB’s would carry over and if perry is good to go next season we are completely doomed....

Just read your explanation now try doing next year under the cap with a healthy perry and 5.4m in performance bonuses.... ship sunk....

The reality is that you probably will not be able to keep everybody. Signing Tavares assured you of that. Just pay Nylander. Sign Marner and Matthews next year. $40m in your top 4 forwards. Trade Kapanan, and fill in with solid veteran UFAs. May need to trade Marleau, Tavares now gives the veteran presence Marleau brought in the past.

buddy. you really gotta take a good look at perry's contract, and then ur own contract situation. unless the cap magiacally raises by like 10 mill, that trade wont work out. plus anahiem let theodore go, just to protect manson. he has a lot of value in their eyes. and his contract is realllllly good.

Oh we can keep everyone as long as we don't badly overpay like most people here want us to.

See the cap chart, explains the possibilities, without me having to type it all again.:
https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/877874
Leads to 11+11+7.5+6.25 = 35.75 for the big 4.
Young depth (kappy, brown, Hyman, Johnsson,etc) fills the rest of the roster. It is tight until Marleau leaves, but it does work.

Perry plays 1 playoffs

Then they Lupul him

Again. Where is Gardiner?

wtf is the blueline without him. There are prospects, but there are even more open spots to fill

Try not making the blueline even worse while signing the kids -- just accept a move has to be made and try to find the best one

Gards, 4 million for one of the top 16 dmen in the league (offensively): you say overpaid.....

I've had this argument with you multiple times on this site. Gards is nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE near as bad as you think he is, he is actually very good, and whoever signs him to a 6x6 July 1st will be very pleased, as long as he is not the shut down guy.

I should restate that, keep everyone who is under contract, Gards is likely gone unless he takes a discount and or a longer term contract.
I did not do lines in this (notice how there is only 13 players on the roster), it is just a cap chart for the big 3, and discussing the possibilities for their cap hits, nothing else.

You're valuing him as a Defenceman

not forward who has destroyed the Leafs playoffs single-handedly multiple times.


But play it your way, what are you going to be paying Gardiner next year in addition to your extensions of Nylander, Matthews, and Marner.
I think Gardiner has value, but I am looking for a way to improve the roster while accepting cap reality.
If Gardiner did take a pay cut to $2 million, incredible, but you still NEED to bring in somebody so that you have somebody other than Rielly who you trust to play in crucial moments

I think Gards walks for 6@6 at year end, I think in UFA he will get between 30-36 million. If the leafs are willing to go long, we can give him 34 million over 8 years for a modest raise of 4.25 aav, but that really requires some good contracts with the big 3, and the depth (I tried to see if it could work here, the answer is not likely, and also a 67 reference by pure chance: https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/828286), and it most likely wont happen.

Also, just looking back at that Carrick trade in the keep gards acgm made me lol

haha. idk. if u do that, that'll send a msg out to other players about how this specific org treats it players. we often forget about that

Really bad, incredibly bad.