SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Toronto Maple Leafs

Nylander is worth way more than people think

Oct. 9, 2018 at 12:17 p.m.
#26
Formerly Jamiepo
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2018
Posts: 21,155
Likes: 10,700
Quoting: herzausstein
Every time Nylander's contract numbers come up, I think of Filip Forsberg's current contract. He was 22 when he signed his 6x6 contract and coming off 63 and 64 point seasons with 30+ goals in the last season. Up to that point, Forsberg had played 177 games got 60 goals 72 assists 132 points. Nylander up to this point has 48 goals 87 assists 135 points through 185 games. Forsberg just edges Nylander out in the point production per game 0.746 points per game (Forsberg) vs 0.730 points per game (Nylander). So when looking at point production and age I'd say they're pretty much a dead match as comparable.

Forsberg's new contract kicked in the 16-17 season. At the time the cap was 73 mil. So his contract comes in at 8.2% of the salary cap. 8.2% of this years cap is 6,519,000. So for a 6 year contract i'd expect somewhere in the 6.75-7.0 million range (due to cost of living adjustments). Then to get up to an 8 year contract, add an additional quarter to half a million per contract year to buy out some UFA years. So 7.5M should be about right for an 8 year contract.

The problem isn't that Nylander isn't worth this amount. It's that if Toronto doesn't get good value for this contract they're going to have a hard time keeping the group together as currently built. Nylander's contract is going to set the standard for Marner/Matthews.


I’m sorry but I had to laugh when you said cost of living adjustments lol. Pretty sure the 500k extra will cover that... i’m Sure with only 6.5m a year nylander will be able to afford enough kraft dinner to keep his strength up lol.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 12:18 p.m.
#27
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Jamiepo
I’m sorry but I had to laugh when you said cost of living adjustments lol. Pretty sure the 500k extra will cover that... i’m Sure with only 6.5m a year nylander will be able to afford enough kraft dinner to keep his strength up lol.


I can't wait for a year or two from now when Nylander posts back to back point per game seasons and whatever he's signed for looks like a steal.
GenXHockey liked this.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 12:51 p.m.
#28
#LeafsFever
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,785
Likes: 932
It's always a bit of guess work, combined with a ton of projections, stats and other data to attempt to determine what a player's worth is currently, to what it should be down the road, 6, 7, 8 years even, potentially. And it's amazing, that even though both sides are working with the same data, the same comps, they come up with way different numbers. Nylander's camp can demand whatever they want, but the reality is that Nylander does not have a solid argument to be making more than David Pastrnk, even though, one could argue, that Pastrnk took a team friendly deal to stay in Boston. Additionally, the more the team wins without him, the less footing Nylander has to work with in this negotiation. I don't think this gets resolved before November. Matthews will not get more than McDavid, and I'd be surprised if he didn't take the exact same amount as Tavares. Marner might be the toughest negotiation of them all.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 1:09 p.m.
#29
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2016
Posts: 3,253
Likes: 1,805
Quoting: Jamiepo
I’m sorry but I had to laugh when you said cost of living adjustments lol. Pretty sure the 500k extra will cover that... i’m Sure with only 6.5m a year nylander will be able to afford enough kraft dinner to keep his strength up lol.


It has nothing to do with him being able to "afford" anything. Him and his agent would be looking at inflation, housing/food/general cost of living price differences between Nashville/Toronto. That's what a good agent would do. You may scoff at it but the player/agent are going to go after what they believe he's earned. it affects him now and his future earning potential.

Quoting: LoganOllivier
That is a hopeful fan from a different team thought right there. If they are a winner without him, then they are utterly dominant with him. Doesn't matter what anyone says, he's an elite offensive player who is far better all around then most guys say.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/definitive-ranking-nhls-top-20-right-wingers-three-seasons/

You just don't trade someone as good as Nylander for something less than his value.


You do if you want to be like Edmonton... (Don't be like Edmonton). Didn't say they'd have to trade for a lesser return, just that they may see this as an opportunity to improve an area that is lacking. That list does seem a little off (From Nashville has Smith at 18 but Arvidsson is nowhere in sight) but i'd agree that Nylander (particularly when his age is brought into things) is around top 10 with lots of room to grow since he's only 22. Would be silly to trade him unless you got a truly great piece back.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 1:16 p.m.
#30
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: MG1986
It's always a bit of guess work, combined with a ton of projections, stats and other data to attempt to determine what a player's worth is currently, to what it should be down the road, 6, 7, 8 years even, potentially. And it's amazing, that even though both sides are working with the same data, the same comps, they come up with way different numbers. Nylander's camp can demand whatever they want, but the reality is that Nylander does not have a solid argument to be making more than David Pastrnk, even though, one could argue, that Pastrnk took a team friendly deal to stay in Boston. Additionally, the more the team wins without him, the less footing Nylander has to work with in this negotiation. I don't think this gets resolved before November. Matthews will not get more than McDavid, and I'd be surprised if he didn't take the exact same amount as Tavares. Marner might be the toughest negotiation of them all.


You are listening to media guys speculate on stuff too much.

Nylander will sign in November, not because he's greedy or the team is low balling him, but because thats when the Leafs gain a bit of cap relief on the contract. The later into the season he signs the higher the first year cap hit is, and that number is subtracted from the average and then the remaining 7 years will have a lower cap hit than the overall average of the deal.

This is all a Dubas master plan, he'll get Nylander at a cap hit that is beneficial to the team and Nylander will get a deal he is happy with. I anticipate then Marner signing for pretty much the same deal, because these players are very close to the same level and then Matthews will sign shortly after that for a deal that is fair for him as well. Trust Dubas, he's a king.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 1:21 p.m.
#31
#LeafsFever
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,785
Likes: 932
Quoting: LoganOllivier
You are listening to media guys speculate on stuff too much.

Nylander will sign in November, not because he's greedy or the team is low balling him, but because thats when the Leafs gain a bit of cap relief on the contract. The later into the season he signs the higher the first year cap hit is, and that number is subtracted from the average and then the remaining 7 years will have a lower cap hit than the overall average of the deal.

This is all a Dubas master plan, he'll get Nylander at a cap hit that is beneficial to the team and Nylander will get a deal he is happy with. I anticipate then Marner signing for pretty much the same deal, because these players are very close to the same level and then Matthews will sign shortly after that for a deal that is fair for him as well. Trust Dubas, he's a king.


I doubt it's that simple, Logan. At this point, with how this young season has gone so far, the Leafs don't have issues scoring, it's keep the puck out of their own net and holding leads that the issue. I am of the opinion that what the Leafs need is solid defenseman and the only way we get that is by trading one of our young scorers. For obvious reasons, Nylander seems like the ideal choice to me.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 1:39 p.m.
#32
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: MG1986
I doubt it's that simple, Logan. At this point, with how this young season has gone so far, the Leafs don't have issues scoring, it's keep the puck out of their own net and holding leads that the issue. I am of the opinion that what the Leafs need is solid defenseman and the only way we get that is by trading one of our young scorers. For obvious reasons, Nylander seems like the ideal choice to me.


They need someone other than Hainsey to play with Rielly. That is the one thing they need more than anything else.

Rielly is a top pairing defenceman, he needs a real partner.
Hainsey has been utterly terrible so far this season, in all aspects of the game. He should not be in the lineup.
Zaitsev has been the Leafs best defender so far (well at least the most consistent)
Gardiner is the same as he's always been, he'll make 20 good plays a game and 5 mind blowing terrible ones. Ride him out until the end of the season and let him walk.
Dermott has looked like a rookie at times but has the speed to cover it up at least. I don't at all doubt he'll tighten things up quickly.
Ozhiganov also looks like a rookie out there, give him a little while to get the north american game figured out
Marincin/Holl who know what these guys will be, but either is an upgrade over Hainsey at least.

The real issue to my eyes is careless play in their own end. Not just the defence, its been the forwards too, Matthews has had a few really bad plays so far. Although Ennis was the weak link there for a while. The wingers still are always on their way out of the zone before the Leafs have full control of the puck and that is putting too much pressure on the defence.

So with all that said, trading Nylander for defensive help is going to look bad. He's an elite player and he'll be traded for an okay defenceman, regardless of what the improvement defensively is, you are losing elite offense for an improvement that can be made for far less. Christ Tanev, won't cost you Nylander, he may not even cost a roster player. Hell give a 1st rounder and Vancouver may even retain cap space.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 2:13 p.m.
#33
Just Keep Swimming
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 9,193
Likes: 5,554
Quoting: LoganOllivier
They need someone other than Hainsey to play with Rielly. That is the one thing they need more than anything else.

Rielly is a top pairing defenceman, he needs a real partner.
Hainsey has been utterly terrible so far this season, in all aspects of the game. He should not be in the lineup.
Zaitsev has been the Leafs best defender so far (well at least the most consistent)
Gardiner is the same as he's always been, he'll make 20 good plays a game and 5 mind blowing terrible ones. Ride him out until the end of the season and let him walk.
Dermott has looked like a rookie at times but has the speed to cover it up at least. I don't at all doubt he'll tighten things up quickly.
Ozhiganov also looks like a rookie out there, give him a little while to get the north american game figured out
Marincin/Holl who know what these guys will be, but either is an upgrade over Hainsey at least.

The real issue to my eyes is careless play in their own end. Not just the defence, its been the forwards too, Matthews has had a few really bad plays so far. Although Ennis was the weak link there for a while. The wingers still are always on their way out of the zone before the Leafs have full control of the puck and that is putting too much pressure on the defence.

So with all that said, trading Nylander for defensive help is going to look bad. He's an elite player and he'll be traded for an okay defenceman, regardless of what the improvement defensively is, you are losing elite offense for an improvement that can be made for far less. Christ Tanev, won't cost you Nylander, he may not even cost a roster player. Hell give a 1st rounder and Vancouver may even retain cap space.


I entirely agree. Its why I personally do not want a Nylander trade, but would be willing to accept one type of trade only. A Johnasen for Jones type trade. Problem is we have to wait another couple of years before we could swing that, so we need to get Nylander on a decent contract anyways.

On the current D part, I think when babs inevitably puts the 2nd pair as Rielly-Dermott is when we are going to see real improvement. I could also see Rielly-OZ or Reilly - Marincin (eww) as something he tries. Personally I thin we should do lines of:
Gardiner - Zaitzev
Rielly - Dermott
Marincin - Oz
Hainsey - Holl
Oct. 9, 2018 at 2:16 p.m.
#34
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Random2152
I entirely agree. Its why I personally do not want a Nylander trade, but would be willing to accept one type of trade only. A Johnasen for Jones type trade. Problem is we have to wait another couple of years before we could swing that, so we need to get Nylander on a decent contract anyways.

On the current D part, I think when babs inevitably puts the 2nd pair as Rielly-Dermott is when we are going to see real improvement. I could also see Rielly-OZ or Reilly - Marincin (eww) as something he tries. Personally I thin we should do lines of:
Gardiner - Zaitzev
Rielly - Dermott
Marincin - Oz
Hainsey - Holl


Gardiner isn't good, and I think his days in TO are numbered, I really would like to see him traded to Vancouver for Tanev but that won't happen. Its actually a very good hockey trade since Vancouver has ZERO offense from the blueline and could really use Gardiner.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 2:20 p.m.
#35
Just Keep Swimming
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 9,193
Likes: 5,554
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Gardiner isn't good, and I think his days in TO are numbered, I really would like to see him traded to Vancouver for Tanev but that won't happen. Its actually a very good hockey trade since Vancouver has ZERO offense from the blueline and could really use Gardiner.


Tanev is overrated, and you are severely underrating Gardiner.
Remember, there were 16 Dmen with over 50 points last year. The Leafs have 2.
Have Gards and Zaitzev play the sheltered minutes, and allow them to be offensive juggernauts (which is how Babs tries to play them), and have Rielly - Dermott be your shut down pair (again, how Babs plays them).
Gard's job on this team is to be offensive, Zaitzev's job is to take the puck from the other team and start the offence (which is literally what he does best). Let them do that and the few mistakes they make will not be too bad, considering the benefits.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 2:28 p.m.
#36
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Random2152
Tanev is overrated, and you are severely underrating Gardiner.
Remember, there were 16 Dmen with over 50 points last year. The Leafs have 2.
Have Gards and Zaitzev play the sheltered minutes, and allow them to be offensive juggernauts (which is how Babs tries to play them), and have Rielly - Dermott be your shut down pair (again, how Babs plays them).
Gard's job on this team is to be offensive, Zaitzev's job is to take the puck from the other team and start the offence (which is literally what he does best). Let them do that and the few mistakes they make will not be too bad, considering the benefits.


Gardiner's turnovers are just too much to deal with. I just think he's run his course. Yeah he scores a lot of points but he's terrible in his own end. I'd rather see someone who scores less but just plays a cleaner game than Gardiner is capable of.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 2:30 p.m.
#37
Just Keep Swimming
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 9,193
Likes: 5,554
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Gardiner's turnovers are just too much to deal with. I just think he's run his course. Yeah he scores a lot of points but he's terrible in his own end. I'd rather see someone who scores less but just plays a cleaner game than Gardiner is capable of.


Oh I agree, but how are we going to get that right now? Our prospects are not ready, and no one will give us a decent trade considering everyone wants what you do. If you want a direct replacement, look at Ekholm. Now ask what that will cost, and what pieces we need to lose for that to happen. Nashville does not need OFD considering..you know... Josi.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 2:34 p.m.
#38
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Random2152
Oh I agree, but how are we going to get that right now? Our prospects are not ready, and no one will give us a decent trade considering everyone wants what you do. If you want a direct replacement, look at Ekholm. Now ask what that will cost, and what pieces we need to lose for that to happen. Nashville does not need OFD considering..you know... Josi.


I don't want an ultra elite defenceman, that would cost way too much and the player will likely already be past his prime. What I would have done, is put Carrick in for Hainsey at the start of the preseason and tried to trade Gardiner for someone who would either be a stop gap to keep Sandin and Liljegren in the minors for 2 seasons or futures. Babs likes having a certain number of vets on hand, and play them regardless of them deserving their position. (Polak last year, Hainsey this year)

Spending a great deal of assets for an improvement that weakens the team in other areas makes zero sense to me.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 2:35 p.m.
#39
Just Keep Swimming
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 9,193
Likes: 5,554
Quoting: LoganOllivier
I don't want an ultra elite defenceman, that would cost way too much and the player will likely already be past his prime. What I would have done, is put Carrick in for Hainsey at the start of the preseason and tried to trade Gardiner for someone who would either be a stop gap to keep Sandin and Liljegren in the minors for 2 seasons or futures. Babs likes having a certain number of vets on hand, and play them regardless of them deserving their position. (Polak last year, Hainsey this year)

Spending a great deal of assets for an improvement that weakens the team in other areas makes zero sense to me.


I think you are throwing out far more than you realize for little gain...
Oct. 9, 2018 at 2:37 p.m.
#40
Just Keep Swimming
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 9,193
Likes: 5,554
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Gardiner's turnovers are just too much to deal with. I just think he's run his course. Yeah he scores a lot of points but he's terrible in his own end. I'd rather see someone who scores less but just plays a cleaner game than Gardiner is capable of.


Also, I'd like to add that Tavares turns over the puck almost as much, and you don't hear people complaining about that. Same with Gaudreau (using them thanks to my Cap chart, so I just have their numbers handy).
Giveaways:
Gards 16-17 - 17-18: 79-105
Gaudreau 2 years before contract: 78 - 90 giveaways
Tavares 16-17 - 17-18: 81-78 giveaways
Subban 16-17 - 17-18: 58 - 97
etc

We can make it work, and it is not as bad as you think.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 2:42 p.m.
#41
Just Keep Swimming
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 9,193
Likes: 5,554
Quoting: LoganOllivier
I don't want an ultra elite defenceman, that would cost way too much and the player will likely already be past his prime. What I would have done, is put Carrick in for Hainsey at the start of the preseason and tried to trade Gardiner for someone who would either be a stop gap to keep Sandin and Liljegren in the minors for 2 seasons or futures. Babs likes having a certain number of vets on hand, and play them regardless of them deserving their position. (Polak last year, Hainsey this year)

Spending a great deal of assets for an improvement that weakens the team in other areas makes zero sense to me.


I just realized, Ekholm also had 66 and 70 turn overs the last 2 years. The problem is very overblown, Gards mistakes are just very public? that is the wrong word.... more like in the spotlight due to his timing. A little bit f work and the right line combos can bring him down to average, which he is already, last season was abnormally high for him, which we can make work.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 2:42 p.m.
#42
Formerly Jamiepo
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2018
Posts: 21,155
Likes: 10,700
Quoting: herzausstein
It has nothing to do with him being able to "afford" anything. Him and his agent would be looking at inflation, housing/food/general cost of living price differences between Nashville/Toronto. That's what a good agent would do. You may scoff at it but the player/agent are going to go after what they believe he's earned. it affects him now and his future earning potential.



You do if you want to be like Edmonton... (Don't be like Edmonton). Didn't say they'd have to trade for a lesser return, just that they may see this as an opportunity to improve an area that is lacking. That list does seem a little off (From Nashville has Smith at 18 but Arvidsson is nowhere in sight) but i'd agree that Nylander (particularly when his age is brought into things) is around top 10 with lots of room to grow since he's only 22. Would be silly to trade him unless you got a truly great piece back.


The raise in cap more than covers cost of living.... so do we get to shoot him less for all of his endorsements? Can’t have it both ways. If you’re going to play in Toronto you will pay 50% taxes and you will make it up in endorsements.

I have never once heard of a cost of living increase in salary it just seems ridiculous on a long term contract... we are worried about cost of living now but don’t bother increasing it every year because reasons. Besides the fact of the strong us dolkar needs to be taken in consideration too. His 6.5m is 8.41m
Oct. 9, 2018 at 2:46 p.m.
#43
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Random2152
Also, I'd like to add that Tavares turns over the puck almost as much, and you don't hear people complaining about that. Same with Gaudreau (using them thanks to my Cap chart, so I just have their numbers handy).
Giveaways:
Gards 16-17 - 17-18: 79-105
Gaudreau 2 years before contract: 78 - 90 giveaways
Tavares 16-17 - 17-18: 81-78 giveaways
Subban 16-17 - 17-18: 58 - 97
etc

We can make it work, and it is not as bad as you think.


Oh I agree its not nearly as bad as people say it is. I am 100% fine with a minor move that just gets Hainsey out of the top 4. Dermott isn't ready yet and neither is Oz. Someone will need to be brought in to replace Hainsey. Tanev would be a major improvement if he can be had for a fair price.
Oct. 9, 2018 at 2:47 p.m.
#44
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Random2152
I just realized, Ekholm also had 66 and 70 turn overs the last 2 years. The problem is very overblown, Gards mistakes are just very public? that is the wrong word.... more like in the spotlight due to his timing. A little bit f work and the right line combos can bring him down to average, which he is already, last season was abnormally high for him, which we can make work.


His giveaways aren't the only problem, he isn't good at winning puck battles along the boards and is very below average at clearing the front of the net.
Oct. 10, 2018 at 9:09 a.m.
#45
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2016
Posts: 3,253
Likes: 1,805
Quoting: Jamiepo
The raise in cap more than covers cost of living.... so do we get to shoot him less for all of his endorsements? Can’t have it both ways. If you’re going to play in Toronto you will pay 50% taxes and you will make it up in endorsements.

I have never once heard of a cost of living increase in salary it just seems ridiculous on a long term contract... we are worried about cost of living now but don’t bother increasing it every year because reasons. Besides the fact of the strong us dolkar needs to be taken in consideration too. His 6.5m is 8.41m


Is that why Tavares cost 11M? Seriously he didn't get any sort of discount b/c the US$ vs Can or "endorsements". Fact is that you can't put a price tag on those things b/c they're too volatile. The US$ vs Can could change at a moments notice and endorsements can't be written into the contract so they're handshake deals at best that may or may not come to fruition. Nylander's contract will set the comparable for future RFAs as well so the NHLPA is going to want him to get as much as he can b/c that helps the future earnings of other players. You could sensibly argue for 6.5ish on a 6 year or shorter contract. The contract mentioned in this post is 8 years. Typically you'll see an adjustment of $500,000 +/- $125,000 (dependent on the caliber of the player and possible ceiling) for each additional ufa year bought out. If you want Nylander for less than 6.5M then i would say you will likely need a shorter contract.
Oct. 10, 2018 at 9:48 a.m.
#46
Formerly Jamiepo
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2018
Posts: 21,155
Likes: 10,700
Quoting: herzausstein
Is that why Tavares cost 11M? Seriously he didn't get any sort of discount b/c the US$ vs Can or "endorsements". Fact is that you can't put a price tag on those things b/c they're too volatile. The US$ vs Can could change at a moments notice and endorsements can't be written into the contract so they're handshake deals at best that may or may not come to fruition. Nylander's contract will set the comparable for future RFAs as well so the NHLPA is going to want him to get as much as he can b/c that helps the future earnings of other players. You could sensibly argue for 6.5ish on a 6 year or shorter contract. The contract mentioned in this post is 8 years. Typically you'll see an adjustment of $500,000 +/- $125,000 (dependent on the caliber of the player and possible ceiling) for each additional ufa year bought out. If you want Nylander for less than 6.5M then i would say you will likely need a shorter contract.


No...Tavares took a discount and left money on the table from San Jose. He was a UFA... people just don’t seem to understand what that mean. If Willy wants to play in the nhl he will need to sign a deal with the leafs. I still think it is going to be a 6 year deal for him. In case you haven’t noticed players are signed contracts based on what you do not where you play. This is why tax amount is inadmissible in arbitration hearings. Is it tougher to lure ufa’s in a high tax market... yes for sure. Does Toronto have to pay their players more... no not at all.

I’m going to have to call you out and tell you that you are dead wrong here. These are not how contracts are negotiated. Nylander is not looking for cost of living allowance... he is signing a deal 40m dollar deal. I’m sure there has been mention of the high taxes but this is not a point of leverage and nothing that is a sticking point. Toronto pays the same amount for their players as every other team. If you believe anything different please feel free to use cap friendly and show where Toronto is paying all of their players 25% more to make up for taxes.
Oct. 10, 2018 at 11:05 a.m.
#47
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2016
Posts: 3,253
Likes: 1,805
Quoting: Jamiepo
No...Tavares took a discount and left money on the table from San Jose. He was a UFA... people just don’t seem to understand what that mean. If Willy wants to play in the nhl he will need to sign a deal with the leafs. I still think it is going to be a 6 year deal for him. In case you haven’t noticed players are signed contracts based on what you do not where you play. This is why tax amount is inadmissible in arbitration hearings. Is it tougher to lure ufa’s in a high tax market... yes for sure. Does Toronto have to pay their players more... no not at all.

I’m going to have to call you out and tell you that you are dead wrong here. These are not how contracts are negotiated. Nylander is not looking for cost of living allowance... he is signing a deal 40m dollar deal. I’m sure there has been mention of the high taxes but this is not a point of leverage and nothing that is a sticking point. Toronto pays the same amount for their players as every other team. If you believe anything different please feel free to use cap friendly and show where Toronto is paying all of their players 25% more to make up for taxes.


The bolded part along with him being basically a 1 for 1 match for Filip Forsberg's RFA contract would put him at about 6.5M AAV for 6 years (Caphit % of the Cap the year the contract kicks in). This doesn't take inflation into account but one could argue that the rising cap handles the inflation so an adjustment isn't necessary. If you want 8 years, you'll have to pay more since you'll be cutting into UFA years and shortening his chance to get another big payday.

Also I never states they would pay additional 25% to make up for taxes. The "cost of living" i stated earlier was an adjustment from a base of 6.5M to 6.75M (3.8%) to 7M (7.7%). It may be a silly thing to argue for, I'm not a GM hence why some of my trade proposals are garbage, so i don't know what all exactly they go into during these discussions. I do know that when you try to standardize a salary against a rising payscale you're going to use % of the cap as the baseline. That's why there's a 500,000 difference between Forsberg's 6M and Nylander's 6.5M base. Both are 8.2% of the the cap in the year the contract takes place.
Oct. 10, 2018 at 11:20 a.m.
#48
Formerly Jamiepo
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2018
Posts: 21,155
Likes: 10,700
Quoting: herzausstein
The bolded part along with him being basically a 1 for 1 match for Filip Forsberg's RFA contract would put him at about 6.5M AAV for 6 years (Caphit % of the Cap the year the contract kicks in). This doesn't take inflation into account but one could argue that the rising cap handles the inflation so an adjustment isn't necessary. If you want 8 years, you'll have to pay more since you'll be cutting into UFA years and shortening his chance to get another big payday.

Also I never states they would pay additional 25% to make up for taxes. The "cost of living" i stated earlier was an adjustment from a base of 6.5M to 6.75M (3.8%) to 7M (7.7%). It may be a silly thing to argue for, I'm not a GM hence why some of my trade proposals are garbage, so i don't know what all exactly they go into during these discussions. I do know that when you try to standardize a salary against a rising payscale you're going to use % of the cap as the baseline. That's why there's a 500,000 difference between Forsberg's 6M and Nylander's 6.5M base. Both are 8.2% of the the cap in the year the contract takes place.


I only jumped in here when I saw your cost of living increase. Not something players really need to worry about.... that’s something us poor folks need to fight for.

Nylanders best comparisons for basic stats are forsberg and elhers and maybe Larkin. He will argue for more with advanced stats and projections. Dubas will argue back with must be nice to play with Matthews and be on a very competitive team. They will settle at some point with nylander dropping his ask. I think it will be somewhere between 6.25m to 6.75m on a 6 year deal. Marner and Matthews still need to get paid and nylander will set the standard for the team. With them both having the potential to blow nylanders numbers out the door. That is why no matter what happens dubas will sign nylander he will keep his price low and he will not trade him without a contract... and for that matter as much as we all talk about here... dubas will not trade nylander.
Oct. 11, 2018 at 10:28 p.m.
#49
Avatar of the user
Joined: Oct. 2017
Posts: 60
Likes: 5
Quoting: Jamiepo
I only jumped in here when I saw your cost of living increase. Not something players really need to worry about.... that’s something us poor folks need to fight for.

Nylanders best comparisons for basic stats are forsberg and elhers and maybe Larkin. He will argue for more with advanced stats and projections. Dubas will argue back with must be nice to play with Matthews and be on a very competitive team. They will settle at some point with nylander dropping his ask. I think it will be somewhere between 6.25m to 6.75m on a 6 year deal. Marner and Matthews still need to get paid and nylander will set the standard for the team. With them both having the potential to blow nylanders numbers out the door. That is why no matter what happens dubas will sign nylander he will keep his price low and he will not trade him without a contract... and for that matter as much as we all talk about here... dubas will not trade nylander.


The problem isn’t just signing M&M but Kapanen and then Dermott the year after. The Leafs have an elite offense but their defense isn’t good enough to challenge for the cup so I think they will end up trading him for a strong defender like Trouba
Oct. 11, 2018 at 11:56 p.m.
#50
Formerly Jamiepo
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2018
Posts: 21,155
Likes: 10,700
Quoting: aporter0509
The problem isn’t just signing M&M but Kapanen and then Dermott the year after. The Leafs have an elite offense but their defense isn’t good enough to challenge for the cup so I think they will end up trading him for a strong defender like Trouba


We will see what happens in the spring, pretty up in the air right now.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll