I was looking at some stats for my cap chart, and came across this:
Gards turnovers are league average for his type of Dman. He is average defensively... Let that sink in...
Now last year was a bad year for that, as gards set a new high for turn overs, but over his career he is average, and I expect he will return to his career average.

Gards giveaways (13-14 to 17-18): 68, 66, 74, 79, 105
Subban giveaways (10-11 to 17-18): 56, 88, 42 (lockout), 83, 112, 106, 58, 97
Ekholm giveaways (13-14 to 17-18): 33, 45, 54, 66, 70
Myers giveaways (09-10 to 17-18): 93, 67, 44 (50 games), 30 (40 games),41 (60 games), 54, 34 (50 games), 20 (20 games), 47, 10 (10 games), 77
Weber (08-09 to 17-18): 33, 52, 51, 46, 36, 50, 53, 39, 80, 31 (26 games)

Subban giveaways (10-11 to 17-18): 56, 88, 42 (lockout), 83, 112, 106, 58, 97

- Holy molly, No wonder MB traded him away!

The guy was a turnover machine his last season with MTL... he was a liability with his spinorama.

Does anyone have Weber's stats ?

This is a flawed way of looking at things.

1) All the other guys you mention are significantly better along the boards in their end in terms of getting the puck back
2) All of these other guys are also way better at boxing guys out in front and blocking shots.
3) using one defensive stat without supporting evidence isn't a good metric to use to prove a player is good or bad at defence.

If you use all the stats available and watch Gardiner play, he is the following player.

He has a terrific first past and has one of the best stretch passes in the game. He's not very fast but has good edge work he uses to elude guys. The marjority of his turnovers happen at the blue lines. He either is making an ill conceived pinch at the opposing blue line that results in a 2 on 1 or he's losing the puck when exiting his zone resulting in odd man rushes. He's terrible along the boards where smaller players routinely out muscle and out work him for loose pucks and he isn't very accomplished at boxing guys out in front of the net. All of those things make him poor defensively, its not his turn overs alone.

Weber (08-09 to 16-17): 33, 52, 51, 46, 36, 50, 53, 39, 80

Don't go down that path dude, there is zero stats that will do anything but make you depressed. Subban is 10000 times the player Weber is at this stage of his career. There is no way to paint it in a good light.

Can you point me to any stats for that? I do not know of any that deal with that, so it is hard to quantify. I'd be willing to be Gards is not far off the average.

Also, as soon as Weber got to MTL his turnovers jumped, while Subban's went down

That's better

80 turnovers is better? as soon as he got to MTL his turnovers jumped big time

Fake news

Nowadays, you guys only value the Dman who plays like a foward... Pts are one thing, but defensive game is another -> Weber is still considered one of the best defensive dman in the league.

Read these and you'll see that Gardiner isn't even registering on a lot of ways while the other guys you mentioned are all superior.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/definitive-ranking-nhls-top-40-defencemen-three-seasons-40-21/
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/definitive-ranking-nhls-top-20-defencemen-three-seasons/

-> Shittier defense also and a broken foot

- no LHD...

While Subban's number kept being terrible

Meh. He is not bad for sure, and when he has played he has been good, but just good. He is overpaid, on a bad contract (length), and is constantly injured. Last year he was over a turn over per game.

Already read those lol, look at last years version, see what the difference is. He had an off year, I want to see him, not having one.

Only by Hab fans and old school guys who like old school players. The reality is Weber didn't have many steps to begin with and now he's lost them. He can't keep up and its only going to get worse. His contract alone makes him one of the worst guys to have on your team.

I would argue that he is better than any dman on the leaf - prove me wrong

Subban has been a Norris finalist both years he has been in Nashville, Weber has been an injured liability.

Check out the following two links.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/definitive-ranking-nhls-top-40-defencemen-three-seasons-40-21/
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/definitive-ranking-nhls-top-20-defencemen-three-seasons/

damn they did not do 40 last year... so where can I find the underlying stats

An off year? It was his statistical best year ever offensively but his defence is so poor he's off the list entirely. Gardiner isn't terrible, he just is not good offensively and with the team TO has, they would likely not miss his offense at all at 5v5 and a better defensive player could be a lot more valuable for the team. Trade him to a team that has zero offense from the blueline.

Morgan Rielly... One of the best D in the game, is criminally underrated. His offence has always been noted, but not really seen as elite for some reason, and since Babs has come, he has quietly transitioned into one of the best TWD in the game. He was dragging the corpse of Ron Hainsey around and still scored 52 points (only 16 dmen did that), and he did that AS THE SHUT DOWN PAIR.

I meant an off year defensively lol.

Because he puts on a show - don't get me wrong I LOVED Subban with the habs... he was, sometimes, the only one giving me my money's worth - but he is not as good as everybody claims.

You do realized you've said nothing to refute his claims here, and are just disregarding everything that has been said as if it means nothing right?

Well pts on a high scoring team isn't that crazy -> try making 42pts on the MTL roster (Petry)

- points are not everything, Petry had 42pts but he was -26 and a liability.