Ottawa or Detroit, AKA the worst teams in the nhl

fair enough, I did forget about Detroit -- lots of old, expensive, broken bodies.

Though I don't think Ottawa trades Chabot for the Leafs' entire blueline

Dallas, they are playing two Leaf rejects, Polak and Carrick. Certainly Montreal, Dallas, Chicago and Detroit. They allowed more goals than the Leafs when the too teams played.

Klingberg + Heiskanen 2 top pair D on their ELCs.
Lindell + Honka are equivalent to Dermott + Liljegren
Methot trumps any further debate


Also Carrick was not the worst defensively for the Leafs, but they committed to Zaitsev + Ozzy.
Polak, I have no idea what their GM was thinking but I guess the Leafs have Hainsey just to be that veteran guy as well.

small sample, but Leafs WITH Gardiner this season
5 on 5 % of shots while score close

1. San Jose 64.46%
3. Vegas 61.74%
13. Dallas 52.55%
18. Leafs 49.60% (for reference, it was 13th/16 or 46.19% in last year's playoff hockey)
20. Detroit 47.67%
24. Washington 41.18%

Leafs without Gardiner probably fall to where Washington has been to start this season, without the hangover excuse or extensions in the rearview mirror. Just above an Anaheim with 7 guys on LTIR, or NYR who are beginning their own scorched earth Shanaplan.


So Leafs without Gardiner are about as good as NYI's defence today, although the Leafs have a brighter future. So NYI and DET are 2 teams that would swap bluelines with the Leafs. Not the worst in the league, but it's a glaring problem compared to the rest of the team and it's receiving no attention. Unless a star forward is traded, Gardiner walks and no one new comes in -- which everyone seems to be fine with, just keep sweeping the problem under the rug

Here are some stats in regards to this season and the Leafs defensively.

So far this season the Leafs are allowing only the 11th-most high danger chances against, 13th-most scoring chances on net against, 16th-most scoring chances against, and 22nd-most passes to the slot against in the NHL, so they’re fairly close to average.

Is the defence as terrible as everyone on here says it is? The answer is an absolute no. They are average. And some strong team defence would likely move them into the top quarter of the league.

This is why Dubas isn't worried about trading Nylander, a 1st and Liljegren to appease fans. Just settle down everyone.

Klingberg isn't on his ELC. But a heck of fib try to win your point.

Going to multi-quote you all here:
Lets go down the list yeah?
Winnipeg: Congrats, you found one of the best D cores in the league.
Washington: Statistically, about the same as the leafs, but the Leafs D core is much much cheaper.
Vegas: Worse than he Leafs. Being completely run over this year. They played a good team defence last year (using the trap), and that has broken down. This core has been exposed. Schmidt and Theodore are nice pieces tho.
Vancouver: Worse than he Leafs.
Tampa Bay: Overrated D. Hedman and Serg. Otherwise meh, McDonnah is not bad. Still better than the Leafs in some aspects, but the Leafs are better offensively. Slight advantage to Tampa. Also, Hedman should not have won Norris. Not even a top 10 Dman statistically last year.
St. Louis: Payako, Petrangelo are good. Otherwise its okay. Better than Leafs.
San Jose: 2 Norris winners and Vlasic this one is not even close, nor should it be. Better than Leafs.
Pittsburgh: Worse, and it is not even close. Letang is only slightly better than Gards at this point (offensively good, prone to turnovers, more physical), and Maata is too slow.
Philly: Two top prospects, otherwise crap. Ghost and Proverov will be great, but they are largely still in the same boat as the Leafs. In the near future, I will give them the edge, but overall, assuming everyone pans out on both team, it is pretty even. (Tor has better bottom 4, Philly has better top 2).
Ottawa: Worse than TOR. They have Chabot and not really much else. Chabot will be a stud, but I liken him to Rielly (given a few years development).
Rangers: Mixed bag. Shatty is crap, McQuaid is meh at best, Staal is ageing rapidly. Skjei is decent (I see him as a good 2LD), as is Poink, but overall missing top end talent. I am giving this one to the Leafs.
Islanders: Worse, and it isn't even close. Give your head a shake if you don't think this. There is a reason JT left.
Devils: I will be honest, I do not know a bunch about this core, I will defer this one.
Nashville: Congrats, you found one of the best D cores in the league.
Montreal: In a worse situation overall. Mete and Juulsen could become very good, Weber is still good when not injured, otherwise its meh at best. I am giving to the Leafs as Rielly is the deciding factor. Also, that Weber contract.. eughhh.
Wild: Better than the Leafs. Sutter, Spurgeon, Dumba... yeah.
LA: Has a great top end talent, not super enthusiastic about the rest of the core right now. Will defer as I do not know enough to make an accurate judgement.
Florida: I will give it to them. D is built for a different game, but I'd take FLA's D over TOR personally.
Edmonton: Bigger names, worse D. Leafs take this one. Nurse should be nice, Klefbom is good, and Larsson is okay. No real top end talent and rest of core is a drag. Rielly > Klef, Gards = Nurse (different play styles but in terms of value all else equal), Larsson > Zaitzev. TOR's depth is much better (Oz, Dermott, etc).
Detroit: Worse. Old guys slowly being ground into dust. A sad end to the Empire.
Dallas: An interesting lineup. Polak and Carrick make the depth worse. I think Rielly is going to break out this year, but for now, Klingberg > Rielly (slightly). Good prospects coming in. I'm calling even. Very similar core construction.
Jackets: Top end talent beats the leafs, full of depth Carlsson, Nuti, Savard. Better than Leafs.
Colorado: Good young talent. Solid top guys. Off the top of my head. Gards ~= Barrie (Barrie better at D, Gards better at O) Johnsson excellent shut down, Girard excellent pickup. In near future certainly better, right now its tough. Edge to Colorado as Rielly = Johnsson (diff players but value wise), Girard > Dermott.
Chicago: Worse. Big names, mostly ageing core. Keith is still okay, Joki looks good, but too many anchors.
Carolina: Better, just full of depth. Nice top end.
Calgary: Good top 4, better than Leafs.
Buffalo: Gards = Risto, Rielly = ? Good depth but Tor's is farther along developmentally. Leafs have it.
Boston: Ageing core, Chara is still decent, but overused. McAvoy will be a stud. Decent depth all around. Boston has it.
Arizona: OEL and Hjal are good, otherwise Meh. I'm calling about even. OEL > Rielly (but not by a huge amount), Gards < Hjal (again, not by much). Depth goes to TOR.
Anaheim: Yeah, ANA has a stacked D core.

Score:
13 teams are better than the Leafs (ANA,BOS,CAL,CAR,COL,CBJ,FLA,MIN,NSH,SAN,STL,TBL,WPG)
4 about even (ARI,DAL,PHI,WSH)
2 I deferred on due to lack of knowledge (LA,NJD)
11 Teams are worse than the Leafs (BUF,CHI,DET,EDM,MTL,NYI,NYR,OTT,PIT,VAN,VGK)

Would you look at that, about League average... who would have thought.

Just noticed that this was for next year, w/o Gards. I think The D weakens a bit, but that Dermott will make up for it. He is developing nicely. Will be at least as good as gard D wise next year, and will only get better. At his career height I think Dermott gets 40 ish points, and is only slightly worse offensively.

I think the author is just an anti leaf troll despite his name.

Yeah, I have come to that conclusion also. I just cant help myself. Him and Pharrow....

[
quote=Random2152;606471]Yeah, I have come to that conclusion also. I just cant help myself. Him and Pharrow....[/quote]

I just put non sensical posters on my ignore list. I go back to them later to see if their ways have changed. I obviously enjoy the banter and sometimes even the passionate conflict, but if I think a guy is deliberately argumentive or just constantly ignores facts......adios. There are enough well meaning folks on the site who I enjoy reading their opinions.
We seem to have a number of "large volume posters" who I wonder if they see any games except their home teams. No appreciation of other teams players at all.

Nice break-down of things again ( on top of "Big 3" contracts one )

Personally, I just don't believe in blocking people. If I don't like it, just ignore. Often I take the bait anyways because that's just the way I am. For example, I am currently arguing in the Shattenkirk trade (Leafs ACGM) about whether Shatty is any good (OP wants to trade Nylander plus for Shatty lol).