SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

TvR 3-way trade and Arizona

Created by: Willian_Cardoso
Team: 2018-19 Pittsburgh Penguins
Initial Creation Date: Oct. 19, 2018
Published: Oct. 21, 2018
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
I'm not sure abou trades value, but I think it'd be a good idea to solve Pens and others teams problems. Be my guest you guys to say that you agree or not...
Trades
1.
PIT
  1. van Riemsdyk, Trevor
Additional Details:
If Sheahan re-signs, Pens gets Carolina 2020 4th rd pick.
CAR
  1. Sheahan, Riley
  2. Simon, Dominik
Additional Details:
If Pens reaches SC Finals, Carolina gets Pens 2019 4th rd pick.
2.
PIT
  1. Foegele, Warren
  2. 2019 2nd round pick (CAR)
CAR
3.
4.
5.
6.
ARI
  1. 2019 4th round pick (PIT)
  2. 2021 4th round pick (PIT)
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2018
2019
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the VGK
2020
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
2021
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$79,500,000$68,893,334$0$1,052,500$10,606,666
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$734,167$734,167 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$8,700,000$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$1,875,000$1,875,000
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$9,500,000$9,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$6,800,000$6,800,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$746,667$746,667 (Performance Bonus$70,000$70K)
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,000,000$3,000,000
C, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,500,000$3,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$650,000$650,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$750,000$750,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$650,000$650,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$4,100,000$4,100,000
LD
UFA - 5
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$7,250,000$7,250,000
RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,750,000$3,750,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$2,300,000$2,300,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$675,000$675,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,250,000$3,250,000
LD
UFA - 5
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$2,137,500$2,137,500
LD/RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$650,000$650,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$650,000$650,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Oct. 21, 2018 at 9:11 p.m.
#1
Phil Swift
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2018
Posts: 594
Likes: 104
TVR isn't even that good. i don't know why so many people want him. with these trades the pens d core would be even worse
Oct. 22, 2018 at 12:57 a.m.
#2
AHL Emissary
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2017
Posts: 352
Likes: 65
Basically Maatta, Sheahan, and Simon for TVR and Foegele? Seems like a downgrade and a lot to give up for the sake of fixing handedness on D, and with the hot start this year and solid AHL season under his belt last year the Canes aren't moving Foegele right now.
Oct. 22, 2018 at 8:57 a.m.
#3
Thread Starter
Let's go Pens!
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 382
Quoting: Jake_H
Basically Maatta, Sheahan, and Simon for TVR and Foegele? Seems like a downgrade and a lot to give up for the sake of fixing handedness on D, and with the hot start this year and solid AHL season under his belt last year the Canes aren't moving Foegele right now.


Foegele to me has more upside and is more talented than Simon. TvR is more consistent than Maatta. Specially defensively. And Sheahan is just a bit better than Cousins, but he's a RFA and still a good bottom 6 C/LW. Oesterle is good ofensively and would give us more depth at D. So, I don't think those are bad trades at all. In fact, I think our D and offensve would improve.
Oct. 22, 2018 at 9:01 a.m.
#4
Thread Starter
Let's go Pens!
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 382
Quoting: Yinz3r
TVR isn't even that good. i don't know why so many people want him. with these trades the pens d core would be even worse


I respectfuly disagree. TvR is more consistent than Maatta in his blue line. So he'd improve our D, surely. We're allowing too many shots per game. Murray won't stop all the shots every game.

PS: I know Maatta has a good upside, but I think he needs some fresh air to his improve his chance to reach his potential.
Oct. 22, 2018 at 11:48 a.m.
#5
AHL Emissary
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2017
Posts: 352
Likes: 65
Quoting: Willian_Cardoso
Foegele to me has more upside and is more talented than Simon. TvR is more consistent than Maatta. Specially defensively. And Sheahan is just a bit better than Cousins, but he's a RFA and still a good bottom 6 C/LW. Oesterle is good ofensively and would give us more depth at D. So, I don't think those are bad trades at all. In fact, I think our D and offensve would improve.


Foegele might very well be more talented than Simon, which is why I don't see Carolina trading him when the immediate roster replacement is an older and worse version of the same player.

As for TVR and Maatta, the defensive upgrade isnt as big as you think. Van Riemsdyk hasn't been a big penalty killer historically, and his even strength time isn't a while lot different than what Olli's gotten, so you're giving up the much better offensive defenseman for a slight bump in defensive play a few shifts a night at evens. And that's without considering that Carolina runs a system prediacted on creating turnovers and boosting strong defensive metrics without necessarily winning games, so as much as Maatta's offense might be a result of playing in Pittsburgh so might TVR's apparent defensive skills be exaggerated by playing in Carolina. Again, doesn't seem worth the risk.

I don't know how you're measuring them, but I can't find anything to suggest that Cousins and Sheahan are remotely close to each other in terms of skill or results. Sheahan is a passable 3rd line center, Cousins has had a replacement level career outside of a 12 goal outburst. That's a clear downgrade.
Oct. 22, 2018 at 12:46 p.m.
#6
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2018
Posts: 5,351
Likes: 1,535
Cornering the market on waiver eligible D.
Oct. 22, 2018 at 2:06 p.m.
#7
Thread Starter
Let's go Pens!
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 382
Quoting: Jake_H
Foegele might very well be more talented than Simon, which is why I don't see Carolina trading him when the immediate roster replacement is an older and worse version of the same player.

As for TVR and Maatta, the defensive upgrade isnt as big as you think. Van Riemsdyk hasn't been a big penalty killer historically, and his even strength time isn't a while lot different than what Olli's gotten, so you're giving up the much better offensive defenseman for a slight bump in defensive play a few shifts a night at evens. And that's without considering that Carolina runs a system prediacted on creating turnovers and boosting strong defensive metrics without necessarily winning games, so as much as Maatta's offense might be a result of playing in Pittsburgh so might TVR's apparent defensive skills be exaggerated by playing in Carolina. Again, doesn't seem worth the risk.

I don't know how you're measuring them, but I can't find anything to suggest that Cousins and Sheahan are remotely close to each other in terms of skill or results. Sheahan is a passable 3rd line center, Cousins has had a replacement level career outside of a 12 goal outburst. That's a clear downgrade.


The point is that Carolina have much more depth on their wings than in their C. In fact, there's a huge hole in their C. So, bring Bjugstad as their 2nd line C would surely improve their offensive game, cause Rask becames a bust and he's far from being a good C to be placed as a 2nd C. So, I think Carolina can afford to lose one good winger to get a C.

As for Maatta and TvR, let's remember that TvR was pretty good playing for the Hawks as well. He's been consistent almost his entire career. To me, he's a underrated player.
Oct. 22, 2018 at 2:29 p.m.
#8
AHL Emissary
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2017
Posts: 352
Likes: 65
Quoting: Willian_Cardoso
The point is that Carolina have much more depth on their wings than in their C. In fact, there's a huge hole in their C. So, bring Bjugstad as their 2nd line C would surely improve their offensive game, cause Rask becames a bust and he's far from being a good C to be placed as a 2nd C. So, I think Carolina can afford to lose one good winger to get a C.

As for Maatta and TvR, let's remember that TvR was pretty good playing for the Hawks as well. He's been consistent almost his entire career. To me, he's a underrated player.


You fill Carolina's needs quite nicely and the Pens get a full compliment of right-handed defensemen, but at what cost to Pittsburgh? The Hurricanes get (by your estimation) a 2nd line center in Bjugstad, (by my estimation) a 3rd line center in Sheahan, and a decent depth piece in Simon, and all it costs them is an "underrated" 3rd pairing defenseman, a promising prospect with a hot hand, and a pick.

The Pens are giving up a top 4 defenseman, a valuable center that lets them roll lines and play Brassard where need be, and one of the only left-handed depth options to have chemistry with Sid if something happens to Guentzel, and the only guarantee they get in return is a depth defenseman that has to play over his head until Schultz returns. Maybe Foegele is the next Guentzel, maybe he goes to Wilkes-Barre and never sees the big ice again, he's not a known quantity. Maybe TVR has been hiding another gear in his development and can become the next Dumoulin, if only he wasn't already 27. Pittsburgh loses way too much value on this deal and gets far too little in return for it to make any sense.
Oct. 22, 2018 at 2:45 p.m.
#9
Thread Starter
Let's go Pens!
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 382
Quoting: Jake_H
You fill Carolina's needs quite nicely and the Pens get a full compliment of right-handed defensemen, but at what cost to Pittsburgh? The Hurricanes get (by your estimation) a 2nd line center in Bjugstad, (by my estimation) a 3rd line center in Sheahan, and a decent depth piece in Simon, and all it costs them is an "underrated" 3rd pairing defenseman, a promising prospect with a hot hand, and a pick.

The Pens are giving up a top 4 defenseman, a valuable center that lets them roll lines and play Brassard where need be, and one of the only left-handed depth options to have chemistry with Sid if something happens to Guentzel, and the only guarantee they get in return is a depth defenseman that has to play over his head until Schultz returns. Maybe Foegele is the next Guentzel, maybe he goes to Wilkes-Barre and never sees the big ice again, he's not a known quantity. Maybe TVR has been hiding another gear in his development and can become the next Dumoulin, if only he wasn't already 27. Pittsburgh loses way too much value on this deal and gets far too little in return for it to make any sense.


Bjugstad plays behind Barkov and Trocheck, 2 very good C, and he still got 49 points and 19 goals playing as a 3rd C in a team which haven't the much depth at their wings. At least till last season. So, in Carolina he'd be no-brainer their 2nd C and will have an immediate impact in their offense. Imagine he playing with Teuravainen and Svechnikov. Whatta exciting 2nd line it'd be!

As for Pens, well, I don't think Maatta is playing like a top-4 d-man in Pitt. At least not in terms of the quality of his game. However, I admit that he has a good upside and he could improve Panthers D at the same moment that he gets the lineup. That's why I think everyone would win in this trade. I still think that TvR shows he's a good D, who can play as a top-4 or 6 and help the Pens to improve the D. And finally, Foegele is an obvious improvement compared to Simon. So, Pens wins either.

PS: I know I won't change your mind. But I'm still giving my point anyway. lol
Oct. 22, 2018 at 4:04 p.m.
#10
AHL Emissary
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2017
Posts: 352
Likes: 65
Quoting: Willian_Cardoso
Bjugstad plays behind Barkov and Trocheck, 2 very good C, and he still got 49 points and 19 goals playing as a 3rd C in a team which haven't the much depth at their wings. At least till last season. So, in Carolina he'd be no-brainer their 2nd C and will have an immediate impact in their offense. Imagine he playing with Teuravainen and Svechnikov. Whatta exciting 2nd line it'd be!

As for Pens, well, I don't think Maatta is playing like a top-4 d-man in Pitt. At least not in terms of the quality of his game. However, I admit that he has a good upside and he could improve Panthers D at the same moment that he gets the lineup. That's why I think everyone would win in this trade. I still think that TvR shows he's a good D, who can play as a top-4 or 6 and help the Pens to improve the D. And finally, Foegele is an obvious improvement compared to Simon. So, Pens wins either.

PS: I know I won't change your mind. But I'm still giving my point anyway. lol


The problem you're not addressing is that the only team that wins any of these trades is the Canes. No knock on him but Maatta isn't displacing Yandle or Matheson any time soon, and there's no room for him to play down the right side, so the Panthers don't really have a pressing need for Olli. The Pens are giving up a key piece of center depth with no clear replacement (Grant and Cousins are not replacements for Sheahan), and yes Foegele is probably a long term upgrade on Simon but maybes and long terms aren't a good fit for a team with a core north of 30. The only thing that could save this from a Pens standpoint is if you were upgrading the D, which is a suspect argument at best. Maatta isn't great and he's not earning his money, but he's a good bit better and more valuable than van Riemsdyk and yet that's the main roster swap.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll