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An in-depth analysis of a Nylander trade

Created by: TanSor
Team: 2018-19 Minnesota Wild
Initial Creation Date: Oct. 21, 2018
Published: Oct. 21, 2018
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
I know this description is long, but I ask that you please read it to see where I'm coming from and my thought process behind the trades. I prefaced them with titles to make it a little more comprehensive and easier to refer to.

Why the Wild need Nylander:
The Wild have started picking up the pace and have looked better each game, but our transitioning is still disgustingly bad. We rely HEAVILY on dumping the puck and chasing it into the offensive zone (except for the rare opportunity when Granlund or Spurgeon carry the puck into the zone), but what use is playing "dump and chase" when we can't even fulfill the "chase" portion? The answer: a ton of turnovers and very little offensive zone time. We've found ways to score and win games but that continues to be an issue for us. I'm going to admit, paying Nylander $8M right now is an overpayment. I hold the belief that he is worth around $7-7.5M on an 8 year deal which is probably more than most people value him, but he is an absolute wizard at transitioning the puck and holding the offensive zone. He's PERFECT for this Wild team that has struggled to do just that the past few years. Add that to the fact he'd be playing center on this team and he has produced at a pretty impressive rate for being only 22 and that's why I'd be fine if we paid him $1-.5M over what he's worth. Call me crazy all you want, but I think in 1-2 years that contract will look great when he (hypothetically) became our 1C. Nylander is also a young right shot player. The Wild have been constantly peppered by announcers for the fact that they are the 5th oldest team on average in the NHL (with an average age of 27.9 years). Nylanders youth and speed makes us that much younger and faster. His right handedness is also a huge plus since we have struggled at times to score due to having too many lefties, especially on the power play. Coyle is our only right shot in our top 9, and we could really benefit bringing in at least one more (particularly a center). Nylander checks off every box in the need category for this team.

Why Dubas probably can't demand Dumba:
First of all, IF it comes down to Dubas being forced to trade Nylander, he won't have as much leverage in a trade for 2 reasons. One being that Nylander wants more than what Dubas is willing to pay (which effectively brings Nylander's value down in a trade by carrying a higher cap hit) and two being the December 1st deadline where Nylander is no longer eligible to play in the NHL for the season (which in turn kills Nylander's trade value this year and possibly in the future since GM's could label him as a "difficult player to negotiate with"). This is why Dubas couldn't demand someone like Dumba from the Wild in a hypothetical Nylander trade. I mention Dumba because for one, he is a 1RD which would fill TOR's needs, two he is relatively young, and three, he has been playing phenomenally this year. He is in a 3-way tie for most goals scored on the Wild thus far (he has 3 in 8 games) and is 2nd among all skaters on the Wild in ice time (averaging 24:35 per night). He has also been a physical monster, making 23 hits this season which is behind only Foligno (who has 24) on our team. It's safe to say he has proven he is worth of being a 1RD for this team. It's my belief that Dumba, Dubnyk, Granlund, and Zucker (and of course the NMC gang of Koivu, Parise, and Suter) are the untouchable players for us right now, based off of how they've been playing.

What defenseman could we trade:
So, in order to fit the Leafs needs of a defenseman, that leaves Spurgeon or Brodin. Brodin has looked far worse than Spurgeon, but that's not to say Brodin has been playing poorly (because he hasn't). Brodin is also a LHD, although he did once play RD on the top pairing with Suter and can play the position effectively. I think Brodin could be more attractive due to his age and contract (he's cheaper than Spurgeon and has an extra year), but if the Leafs want an immediate upgrade, they should seriously consider Spurgeon. Spurgeon is in an odd spot with the Wild right now. He's been playing pretty well, he has 4 points (1 goal) so far and he is 3rd among all skaters on the Wild in ice time averaging 22:40 per night. We haven't seen him block as many shots as we're used to, but I imagine that will pick up. The eye test will further show that Spurgeon has been solid. He's shut down plays and has been a beast along the boards to retrieve pucks. I think Spurgeon is a perfect fit for Toronto due to his defensive ability and also his ability to chip in offensively. He's your perfect do-it-all two-way defenseman that is really good at transitioning the puck (he's probably our 2nd best transition player behind Granlund) and he plays his heart out each shift. Losing him really hurts, but we have good depth at RD and I think we would come out OK if we lost him. I think Spurgeon would consider waiving his NTC to go to Toronto for two reasons. First, he has a much better chance at winning a cup there. Second, Toronto has Tyler Ennis. Ennis and Spurgeon are childhood best friends (and still are to this day, they work out together in the offseason) that used to dream of winning a cup together. The Athletic wrote a piece on this last year and if you're interested a quick google search should give you access if you have a subscription.

Additional pieces in the trade:
Now, trading Brodin or Spurgeon alone isn't going to be enough for Nylander. Sure, Nylander's value is hurt because of his contract demands but he'll still fetch a very nice return from Toronto. This opens up the question, what else would have to be added? Toronto should be in win-now mode with the pieces they have in place, this removes any picks or prospects as a center piece to a trade (although later picks/lesser prospects could be used to balance a trade) and means roster players coming back instead. The Leafs have no need for a pure center (such as Staal) but could use some help on the wing, particularly the LW. I believe there's two prime candidates for the Wild to add: Charlie Coyle and Nino Niederreiter. What is ironic about these two is that both dealt with major injury issues last year, which destroyed their point totals. Both could easily be 60 point players this year. Coyle has been just OK to start the year. He's had some good plays but hasn't been super noticeable on the ice at times. He has 4 points in 8 games which isn't great but isn't terrible. He's on a very cheap contract which is a big plus for a team like Toronto who will be strapped by cap in a year, but he also only has 2 more years left on his current deal and is a UFA when that expires. Coyle can also take draws and has experience at center, so if there happens to be an injury the Leafs would have a guy that could fill in at center effectively. Nino, on the other hand, has really struggled to start the year. He has 2 measly assists in 8 games. Not good for a guy with 3 consecutive 20 goal seasons under his belt (and was on pace for 4 last year had he not been injured) but Niederreiter has been extremely snake-bitten. He is 6th among all skaters on the Wild in total shots and has 0 goals. He's had good opportunities but just hasn't been able to bury anything. Nino has always been praised by Wild fans for his defensive ability, and he has shown flashes of that this year. I think Nino could really benefit by getting a change in scenery, but I'm not sure many teams will want his 4 year $5.25M contract. Nino can play either wing position effectively, which adds some versatility for the Leafs.

Hopefully that explains why I feel Spurgeon + Nino/Coyle would be good additions for the Leafs and why this makes sense for the Wild. I think if the Leafs did add anything, I would prefer a pick or Josh Levio. Leivo is stuck in the depth charts in Toronto where he'd be playing on the 3rd line on the Wild. He's also a right shot, which is something we don't have much of as I explained above.


Here are the trade options the Wild could offer:
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
8$8,000,000
Trades
1.
MIN
    Rights to William Nylander
    TOR
    1. Coyle, Charlie ($1,300,000 retained)
    Additional Details:
    Jared Spurgeon

    The Leafs take on $6,087,500 in cap in this scenario. This effectively helps them re-sign their young studs next year and gives them a very productive 1RD and a decent top 9 RW/C (Coyle can really play anywhere in the top 9) at a great price.
    2.
    MIN
    1. Leivo, Josh
    Additional Details:
    Rights to William Nylander
    TOR
    1. Niederreiter, Nino
    2. Spurgeon, Jared ($2,593,750 retained)
    Additional Details:
    The Leafs take on $6,918,750 in cap in this scenatio. Once again, this allows them to re-sign their studs. They are taking a bit of a risk here with Nino hoping he can get a jump offensively playing with Tavares or Matthews on either the LW or RW (he can play both).
    Buyouts
    Retained Salary Transactions
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2018
    2019
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the WSH
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    2020
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    2021
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the MIN
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    20$79,500,000$74,669,008$25,000$825,000$4,830,992
    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $7,538,462$7,538,462
    LW
    NMC
    UFA - 7
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $3,500,000$3,500,000
    C
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $5,750,000$5,750,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $5,500,000$5,500,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 5
    $8,000,000$8,000,000
    RW
    UFA - 6
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $650,000$650,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $916,666$916,666 (Performance Bonus$400,000$400K)
    LW, RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $5,500,000$5,500,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $925,000$925,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $2,875,000$2,875,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $1,000,000$1,000,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $687,500$687,500
    RW
    UFA - 2
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $7,538,462$7,538,462
    LD
    NMC
    UFA - 7
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $6,000,000$6,000,000
    RD
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $2,166,667$2,166,667
    G
    M-NTC
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $4,166,667$4,166,667
    LD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $2,250,000$2,250,000
    RD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $650,000$650,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $725,000$725,000
    LD/RD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $650,000$650,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Minnesota Wild
    $700,000$700,000
    RW, C, LW
    UFA - 1

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    Oct. 21, 2018 at 10:15 p.m.
    #1
    Formerly Jamiepo
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    Pretty sound reasoning, would also like to add that spurgeon is a little better in his own end which is what we would be looking for. I like the idea with Nino, he could be a good asset being able to play both sides.

    Hate to trade leivo but he will probably get a better spot with the wild which is what he deserves. Option 2 please
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    Oct. 21, 2018 at 10:20 p.m.
    #2
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    Quoting: Jamiepo
    Pretty sound reasoning, would also like to add that spurgeon is a little better in his own end which is what we would be looking for. I like the idea with Nino, he could be a good asset being able to play both sides.

    Hate to trade leivo but he will probably get a better spot with the wild which is what he deserves. Option 2 please


    Thank you! I completely agree about Spurgeon. Some Wild fans go as far to say Spurgeon is our best defenseman. I'm not sure I agree, but he's pretty close to Suter (although they play a different style) in terms of effectiveness in his own zone. He's such a great fit for Toronto since he is as good (if not better) defensively as Pesce/Tanev but can contribute offensively like Faulk (which seem to be the main targets on this site in a Nylander trade, excluding Parayko). He's older than those guys, sure, but he's only 28 with plenty of hockey left in him. Nino just adds icing to the cake.
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    Oct. 21, 2018 at 10:26 p.m.
    #3
    Formerly Jamiepo
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    Quoting: arousedcat
    Thank you! I completely agree about Spurgeon. Some Wild fans go as far to say Spurgeon is our best defenseman. I'm not sure I agree, but he's pretty close to Suter (although they play a different style) in terms of effectiveness in his own zone. He's such a great fit for Toronto since he is as good (if not better) defensively as Pesce/Tanev but can contribute offensively like Faulk (which seem to be the main targets on this site in a Nylander trade, excluding Parayko). He's older than those guys, sure, but he's only 28 with plenty of hockey left in him. Nino just adds icing to the cake.


    The leafs like the two way style players like zaitsev dermott and Reilly. I see spurgeon as a more mature version of dermott. We really don’t need someone on a long term deal either, his extra year is like an insurance policy on liljegren.

    In all likelihood I see nylander signing long term with the leafs but if he continues to be stubborn this is the sort of trade I could see. I also really liked the one @OldNYIfan put up with the devils. Severson and wood for nylander. Could be 2 plausible options. I doubt we let nylander play in Europe and just take the hit on a season where we would like to contend.
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    Oct. 21, 2018 at 10:45 p.m.
    #4
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    Quoting: Jamiepo
    The leafs like the two way style players like zaitsev dermott and Reilly. I see spurgeon as a more mature version of dermott. We really don’t need someone on a long term deal either, his extra year is like an insurance policy on liljegren.

    In all likelihood I see nylander signing long term with the leafs but if he continues to be stubborn this is the sort of trade I could see. I also really liked the one @OldNYIfan put up with the devils. Severson and wood for nylander. Could be 2 plausible options. I doubt we let nylander play in Europe and just take the hit on a season where we would like to contend.


    I have not seen that yet, I'll have to check that post out! That's a really fair comparison for Dermott. Dermott is a little bigger but from what I've seen they do play similarly. I think Nylander will end up signing eventually but I guess we will just have to wait and see. I do think the Wild are one of only a few teams that could give up what the Leafs need and will be able to sign his $8M asking price. We don't have any big money RFA's next year and Staal reportedly loves Minnesota and could take a discount if he got a NMC next year (assuming that Fenton wants to keep him). We already have our core locked up so there isn't much uncertainty about our future cap and the impact of Nylander's contract would be fairly small. I think Anaheim is a poor trading partner since they already have a ton of big contracts. The Blues have bigger needs on defense than offense as of right now (and don't really need Nylander after getting O'Reilly this offseason). The only other team I can see fitting the Leafs needs are the Canes, but I'm not sure they want to move Pesce since they have Aho, Teuvo, Necas, and Svechnikov to think about in a few years which makes Pesce's contract very valuable to them. Faulk alone isn't enough for Nylander and I'm not sure if there's any roster players the Canes could add to even out the value of a Faulk trade.

    I don't think Nylander will play in Europe this year either. The Leafs are definitely one of the teams primed for a cup run and losing out on either a premier offensive talent or an upgrade on the blue line this year is a big hit.
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    Oct. 21, 2018 at 11:49 p.m.
    #5
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    Is any team prepared to pay Nylander 8m? To me it seems high by about 1.5m. I believe there is a bigger issues here. Forget the trade and whether it is fair or not. If you're the Leafs do you want to trade your RFA because he can get more money elsewhere. Doesn't that set a precedent where Matthews and Marner knowing they can get more money from another team, don't sign their RFA contracts with the Leafs.
    I just can't see the Leaf wanting to give in to what appears to the high Nylander contract demands, regardless of a return a trade (at least at this time).

    arousedcat, you are quite correct when he say their appears to few trading partners for the Leafs, unless similar money comes back to Leafs in a trade. Canes and Minni...would be logical trade partners, but only if Leafs agree to trade Nylander.
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    Oct. 22, 2018 at 12:56 a.m.
    #6
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    Quoting: palhal
    Is any team prepared to pay Nylander 8m? To me it seems high by about 1.5m. I believe there is a bigger issues here. Forget the trade and whether it is fair or not. If you're the Leafs do you want to trade your RFA because he can get more money elsewhere. Doesn't that set a precedent where Matthews and Marner knowing they can get more money from another team, don't sign their RFA contracts with the Leafs.
    I just can't see the Leaf wanting to give in to what appears to the high Nylander contract demands, regardless of a return a trade (at least at this time).

    arousedcat, you are quite correct when he say their appears to few trading partners for the Leafs, unless similar money comes back to Leafs in a trade. Canes and Minni...would be logical trade partners, but only if Leafs agree to trade Nylander.


    As I said in my description, yes $8M is an overpayment right now but as a center he is more than capable of living up to that contract. We desperately need help transitioning the puck and keeping it in the offensive zone and if that means we must sacrifice $1M of cap, I'm 100% for it.

    As for your comment about RFA's, I don't think that's necessarily true although it's certainly 1 possible message Marner and Matthews could take away. You could also argue the opposite, though, that it sends a message to them saying "we aren't going to deal with players that aren't willing to be reasonable with our cap situation". I'm not trying to take a swing at Nylander, since I'm all for players making as much as they can in a negotiation, but Toronto can't afford to pay Nylander $8M, Marner $9M, and Matthews $12M. These guys have to realize what a salary cap means. Some teams can shell out big bucks and others can't. Toronto has an extremely bright future with the potential for multiple cups. I think Matthews, Marner, and even Nylander realize they most likely have a better chance at a cup in Toronto than anywhere else in the league (due to Toronto's ability to pay them and already signed talent). For that reason, I think it's entirely possible Matthews and Marner would understand if Dubas traded Nylander in order to pay them. There are maybe two other teams in the league that can afford Matthews and Marner next year in addition to in the future (Arizona and NYI). There might be another one or two, but most teams are already strapped with cap as is and they have some big names to sign down the road.

    At this point, all reports (whether accurate or not) have said Dubas will not trade Nylander. As December 1st approaches, I think the possibility of that happening grows. I'd be pretty surprised if he were traded (and also pretty upset if he weren't traded here), but anything is possible. If I were a betting man, though, my money would be that he signs a bridge deal and is a Leaf.
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    Oct. 22, 2018 at 9:52 a.m.
    #7
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    5 stars for all that typing
    I didnt even read it all but it looks impressive
    Good job
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    Oct. 22, 2018 at 11:00 a.m.
    #8
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    Quoting: Smitty426
    5 stars for all that typing
    I didnt even read it all but it looks impressive
    Good job


    Procrastination is a powerful tool, lmao, but thank you. tl;dr/ELI5 version is basically this: Nylander is a great fit for the Wild since he is so good at transitioning between zones (which is an area the Wild have struggled the past few years) and because of his contract demands Dubas can't get whatever he wants for Nylander in the trade market. Wild need a right shot forward and future 1C while Leafs need a RHD, so trading them our best RHD (Spurgeon) makes sense along with a forward since Spurgeon is almost 29 meaning we'd have to add more than just Spurgeon.
    Oct. 22, 2018 at 1:00 p.m.
    #9
    Once a Kings Fan Too
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    Great analysis by a guy with insight and ability. If I could think of more to say, I would.

    One note: I deserve no credit for constructing the Devils trade alluded to herein. @rtapp326 6 (I'm having trouble making the link work) originally posted it, and credit goes to him.
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    Oct. 22, 2018 at 1:01 p.m.
    #10
    hey look a squirrel
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    I like this a lot but remove Levio and add a 1st rounder instead IMO.

    Thoughts on expanding it to include Gardinder to Wild and Brodin to Leafs???
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    Oct. 22, 2018 at 1:05 p.m.
    #11
    Formerly Jamiepo
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    Quoting: palhal
    Is any team prepared to pay Nylander 8m? To me it seems high by about 1.5m. I believe there is a bigger issues here. Forget the trade and whether it is fair or not. If you're the Leafs do you want to trade your RFA because he can get more money elsewhere. Doesn't that set a precedent where Matthews and Marner knowing they can get more money from another team, don't sign their RFA contracts with the Leafs.
    I just can't see the Leaf wanting to give in to what appears to the high Nylander contract demands, regardless of a return a trade (at least at this time).

    arousedcat, you are quite correct when he say their appears to few trading partners for the Leafs, unless similar money comes back to Leafs in a trade. Canes and Minni...would be logical trade partners, but only if Leafs agree to trade Nylander.


    Quoting: arousedcat
    As I said in my description, yes $8M is an overpayment right now but as a center he is more than capable of living up to that contract. We desperately need help transitioning the puck and keeping it in the offensive zone and if that means we must sacrifice $1M of cap, I'm 100% for it.

    As for your comment about RFA's, I don't think that's necessarily true although it's certainly 1 possible message Marner and Matthews could take away. You could also argue the opposite, though, that it sends a message to them saying "we aren't going to deal with players that aren't willing to be reasonable with our cap situation". I'm not trying to take a swing at Nylander, since I'm all for players making as much as they can in a negotiation, but Toronto can't afford to pay Nylander $8M, Marner $9M, and Matthews $12M. These guys have to realize what a salary cap means. Some teams can shell out big bucks and others can't. Toronto has an extremely bright future with the potential for multiple cups. I think Matthews, Marner, and even Nylander realize they most likely have a better chance at a cup in Toronto than anywhere else in the league (due to Toronto's ability to pay them and already signed talent). For that reason, I think it's entirely possible Matthews and Marner would understand if Dubas traded Nylander in order to pay them. There are maybe two other teams in the league that can afford Matthews and Marner next year in addition to in the future (Arizona and NYI). There might be another one or two, but most teams are already strapped with cap as is and they have some big names to sign down the road.

    At this point, all reports (whether accurate or not) have said Dubas will not trade Nylander. As December 1st approaches, I think the possibility of that happening grows. I'd be pretty surprised if he were traded (and also pretty upset if he weren't traded here), but anything is possible. If I were a betting man, though, my money would be that he signs a bridge deal and is a Leaf.


    Clearly with the 8 year deal it would be the leafs signing him. On an 8 year deal I would think 7-7.5m is fair. On a 6yr deal 6-6.5m. If leafs sign nylander at 7.5m this may be a bit more than we would like to spend next season and I really feel that this is an offer we haven’t extended.

    If the leafs are able to sign him at 7.5m over 8 years would we keep him?
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    Oct. 22, 2018 at 1:15 p.m.
    #12
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    Quoting: Trickster
    I like this a lot.

    Thoughts on expanding it to include Gardinder to Wild and Brodin to Leafs???


    I've thought about this a lot actually. I do like the idea of it. Here's what I've come up with for pros and cons. There are probably more I can't think of off the top of my head, though.

    Pros:
    1. Gardiner gives us much more firepower from the blue line. "Replacing" Spurgeon with Pateryn (if you get what I mean, basically Pateryn would step up into a top 4 role with Spurgeon being traded) would be a big downgrade in offensive production. Adding Gardiner helps balance that immensely.
    1.5 Gardiner gives us an offensive LHD on the PP. Suter has played that role in the past and likely still would, but Gardiner gives us another option in that regard.
    2. Gardiner is from MN. I think this could be a big influence for an extension and it's possible he'd take a "hometown discount" if it came with a NTC.
    3. This could be a huge motivator for a Nylander trade on the Leafs side for the Wild. As I have laid out, Nylander is perfect for this team so anything that helps us land him is a big plus. Gardiner is a UFA and a lot of people aren't sure if he's in the Leafs long-term plans when his contract expires next year.
    4. We have the perfect defense partner for Gardiner: Greg Pateryn. Pateryn is a rock defensively, but the point production just is not there. I think Pateryn is the perfect defense partner for Gardiner since Pateryn can take care of the defensive responsibilities and Gardiner can do his thing. Sort of an "opposites attract" type scenario (defensive D with offensive D pairing).


    Cons:
    1. We'd be taking a huge risk changing up our top 4 from Suter, Dumba, Brodin, and Spurgeon to Suter, Dumba, Gardiner, Pateryn. It could work out, but it could also have a pretty catastrophic effect in the event it did not.
    2. Gardiner will probably get a decent upgrade in pay, we may or may not be able to afford that if we paid Nylander $8M per year. Maybe the Wild and Gardiner's camp have a handshake deal in place (since he can't actually sign a deal on pen and paper until later this year).
    3. Gardiner is older, although as I've said many times with Sprugeon 28 year olds still have plenty of hockey left in their career (barring career ending injury).
    4. We have no clear top 4 LHD in our prospect system to be Gardiner's eventual replacement. It would be imperative that we drafted one in the next 2 years (this years draft looks BAD for defenseman thus far).
    Oct. 22, 2018 at 2:12 p.m.
    #13
    Formerly Jamiepo
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    Quoting: arousedcat
    I've thought about this a lot actually. I do like the idea of it. Here's what I've come up with for pros and cons. There are probably more I can't think of off the top of my head, though.

    Pros:
    1. Gardiner gives us much more firepower from the blue line. "Replacing" Spurgeon with Pateryn (if you get what I mean, basically Pateryn would step up into a top 4 role with Spurgeon being traded) would be a big downgrade in offensive production. Adding Gardiner helps balance that immensely.
    1.5 Gardiner gives us an offensive LHD on the PP. Suter has played that role in the past and likely still would, but Gardiner gives us another option in that regard.
    2. Gardiner is from MN. I think this could be a big influence for an extension and it's possible he'd take a "hometown discount" if it came with a NTC.
    3. This could be a huge motivator for a Nylander trade on the Leafs side for the Wild. As I have laid out, Nylander is perfect for this team so anything that helps us land him is a big plus. Gardiner is a UFA and a lot of people aren't sure if he's in the Leafs long-term plans when his contract expires next year.
    4. We have the perfect defense partner for Gardiner: Greg Pateryn. Pateryn is a rock defensively, but the point production just is not there. I think Pateryn is the perfect defense partner for Gardiner since Pateryn can take care of the defensive responsibilities and Gardiner can do his thing. Sort of an "opposites attract" type scenario (defensive D with offensive D pairing).


    Cons:
    1. We'd be taking a huge risk changing up our top 4 from Suter, Dumba, Brodin, and Spurgeon to Suter, Dumba, Gardiner, Pateryn. It could work out, but it could also have a pretty catastrophic effect in the event it did not.
    2. Gardiner will probably get a decent upgrade in pay, we may or may not be able to afford that if we paid Nylander $8M per year. Maybe the Wild and Gardiner's camp have a handshake deal in place (since he can't actually sign a deal on pen and paper until later this year).
    3. Gardiner is older, although as I've said many times with Sprugeon 28 year olds still have plenty of hockey left in their career (barring career ending injury).
    4. We have no clear top 4 LHD in our prospect system to be Gardiner's eventual replacement. It would be imperative that we drafted one in the next 2 years (this years draft looks BAD for defenseman thus far).


    I’m almost sure gardiner would give you the hometown discount and probably not leave such a bad taste in anyone’s mouth about having to let him go.

    That’s the pro now the con... THE CAP

    We are depending on gardiner walking to pay our rfa’s and also... do we need brodin with Reilly and dermott... there is something to be said about being able to ice 3 good pairs. Less of a chance of us getting caught on a match up. Let me go over the numbers and see what I can do...
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    Oct. 22, 2018 at 2:14 p.m.
    #14
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    Quoting: Jamiepo
    I’m almost sure gardiner would give you the hometown discount and probably not leave such a bad taste in anyone’s mouth about having to let him go.

    That’s the pro now the con... THE CAP

    We are depending on gardiner walking to pay our rfa’s and also... do we need brodin with Reilly and dermott... there is something to be said about being able to ice 3 good pairs. Less of a chance of us getting caught on a match up. Let me go over the numbers and see what I can do...


    Very true. I forgot about that, Leafs may or may not be able to afford to pay their stud forwards if they got Brodin.

    Edit: I wonder what your thoughts are about a Brodin + Spurgeon trade for Gardiner + Nylander.... Might need a little balancing but that would be the basis of the trade.

    Edit 2: Nvm, I don't think that would work out cap-wise for either team.

    Edit 3: Lol so many edits, I think there might be a way if Toronto retained half of Gardiner's salary and the Wild retained half of Spurgeon's salary. The Wild wouldn't take on much cap this year but the Leafs would be saved from cap troubles next year. I will explore this later, I think.
    Oct. 22, 2018 at 2:19 p.m.
    #15
    Formerly Jamiepo
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    Quoting: arousedcat
    Very true. I forgot about that, Leafs may or may not be able to afford to pay their stud forwards if they got Brodin.

    Edit: I wonder what your thoughts are about a Brodin + Spurgeon trade for Gardiner + Nylander.... Might need a little balancing but that would be the basis of the trade.


    I don’t think gardiner would be a rental trade, too easy to sign a hometown boy and would be a good target for a sign and trade. The other issue is term if we were to get nylander on 8 and gardiner I would imagine 4-6years it would need to be balanced. Just looking at your cap situation now.
    Oct. 22, 2018 at 2:22 p.m.
    #16
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    Quoting: Jamiepo
    I don’t think gardiner would be a rental trade, too easy to sign a hometown boy and would be a good target for a sign and trade. The other issue is term if we were to get nylander on 8 and gardiner I would imagine 4-6years it would need to be balanced. Just looking at your cap situation now.


    I think I figured out a way to make that trade work for the cap, see my edits to my previous comment. He definitely couldn't be a rental if we traded Brodin, Seeler may never be good enough for a 2nd pairing role and we don't have anybody else in our system that fits that bill.
    Oct. 23, 2018 at 12:36 p.m.
    #17
    hey look a squirrel
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    How about Spurgeon, Brodin and Nino for Nylander, Gardiner, 1st rounder and say Neilsen + Bracco???
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    Oct. 23, 2018 at 12:49 p.m.
    #18
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    Quoting: Trickster
    How about Spurgeon, Brodin and Nino for Nylander, Gardiner, 1st rounder and say Neilsen + Bracco???


    I think the trade is fair value-wise, but I don't think Toronto can afford to take on that much cap. Most 2019/20 TOR armchair teams I've seen have Gardiner walking in free agency in order to sign Marner and Matthews (and Nylander too but for the sake of this hypothetical trade I'll exclude him). If Toronto took Brodin, they'd essentially have Gardiner's current contract for 3 more years (Brodin makes about 100k more than Gardiner and is signed for 3 years). Add in Spurgeon and Niederreiter, and you have more cap than what signing Nylander would give them. I think this comes back to the whole reason Toronto would trade him in the first place, to sign Matthews and Marner. If they take $10M in space this year along with an additional $4M in space next year, that leaves them in an even worse position next year than if they just signed Nylander. Even if the Wild retained half of Spurgeon's salary, they'd still be taking significant cap next year.
     
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