i mean.. I would take Puljujarvi for Burakovsky straight up at any minute. Put him with either Backstrom or Kuznetsov and he would shine..

If it's straight up, sure. But I think the Caps would have to add value to make that trade go through.

Yes. Pool Party has been plagued by not getting a solid opportunity in Edmonton. I would take Bura for him in a heartbeat.

I'm confused, if adding value to a Bura/Poolparty trade would be needed, wouldn't the posts doing a straight up trade be selling high not selling low?

I was going to say why start a new AGM post on this with absolutely no GM moves being made... as opposed to just posting a comment in the AGM that made the Edm/Was trade... But, your pointing out the backwardness of the argument is much better.

I agree that we shouldn't give up on Bura or sell low, but if Poolparty is the offer then the Caps better take that in a second. At best Bura is a 55+ points player, Poolparty has 80+ points in him.

Getting Puljujarvi away from a town that had top-5 draft pick expectations for him and into an international city where he might find two or three more Finnish people (I mean, isn't there an embassy he could hang out at if he gets homesick occasionally?) could help him step up his game. Each is currently 6th in their draft class in even strength goals. Burakovsky should get more goals this season, but Puljujarvi is younger and cheaper. I suggested this swap a couple weeks ago when the Caps were securely in playoff position and Edmonton wasn't, and neither player had a point yet. Now they each have one.

Now the Caps are slipping. They are tied for 4th in their division and 9th in the East. The Oilers have climbed to 4th/9th in theirs without the extra help. I'm not sure either side is as enthusiastic about this trade today. But maybe next summer, when the Caps' cap crunch gets real, if the two players still look comparable, with the difference in age and maturity still correlating to a difference in price that allows the Caps to afford Puljujarvi more easily than Burakovsky, maybe then they make a deal. If the Caps think Burakovsky needs a change of scenes, the value is pretty fair, and there's some possibility that Puljujarvi has awesome magical top five pick potential.

Or it's possible that he got a lot of points playing on a WJC line with Laine and a lot of people overrated him. He's never scored 20 goals in a season at any level. 20. Never. Or 15 goals. Or 30 points. He had a hot streak in the WJC on a good team. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=176931

Burakovsky, the year after he was drafted, got 41 goals and 87 points in just 57 games with the Eerie Otters. Another two years later he scored 17 goals in the NHL. Currently both are on pace for eight points this season, but fans of each team have seen signs for optimism in strong play, and recent promotions to 2nd line roles. I see more signs for optimism in Burakovsky's 16 NHL playoff points and 121 regular season NHL points as a 23 year old (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=152839) compared to Puljujarvi's 29 career NHL regular season points and zero playoff points as a 20 year old.

I thought the Caps were assured of a playoff berth and could afford to trade away talent for cap space for next year, and trade away an average prospect for a great one. But now I think I had both sides of that backwards. With the standings where they are, and with a little more research into Puljujarvi, I think the Caps hold onto Burakovsky for this season, unless they can trade him for a more proven NHL goal scorer at the same cap hit. So.... maybe a Lucic, Kovalchuk, or Saad at 50% retained. , or Simmonds at 25% off. Probably have to sweeten a little for Kovalchuk, since he's new and is the lone bright spot on the Kings, but if the Kings are serious about drafting Hughes, and their record so far this year says they have a shot, you wouldn't have to sweeten it too much. Maybe Kempny, Walker, and a 2nd?

I believe there was some speculation in the media about a deal involving these two players - maybe that's what the OP was responding to?

I thought that too, when I suggested it, because of Puljujarvi's draft position, WJC performance, and cap hit, and because I thought maybe Burakovsky only scored 41 goals and 87 points in juniors the year after he was drafted because he was on McDavid's line, and only scored 17 even strength goals in his second NHL season because he was on rookie Kuznetsov's line. But Puljujarvi has never scored 15 goals or 30 points in a season at any level. He had a great showing in the WJC on Laine's line, and hasn't replicated it anywhere else. They're both good complimentary players, but Burakovsky has more experience at that gig, significantly, and has shown he can play well in the Stanley Cup Final without any great players on his line, just Eller and Connolly. The Caps currently have an opening for a complimentary wing on Kuznetsov's line, and inexplicably haven't given Burakovsky a look. They also haven't given Jaskin a look there, even though he plays a similar checking style to WIlson, who worked well there in the playoffs, but speaks Russian.

If they get really desperate for goals, a top six of Ovechkin Kuznetsov Burakovsky, Vrana Backstrom Oshie has their best four offensive wingers each with the center they've had their best goal scoring season with (if you go by goal scoring rather than potential, then Connolly gets into that top four over Vrana, but Beagle's on LTIR and Vancouver aren't trading him yet--maybe Gagner?). Swapping Burakovsky and Oshie gives them more on an on-paper top line, and gives them a 2nd line of three proficient Swedish speakers, but I would hesitate to break up Backstrom and Oshie this year, and I think that putting Ovechkin and Oshie on the same line leads to fewer total goals between them. They combined for 66 together in 2016-17, and got more than 70 apart last year, with Oshie injured for a long stretch. Great goal scorers need a lot of chances to shoot, and that means the center has to pass to them a lot of the time. Burakovsky can be a decent playmaker. He can be an okay finisher. He's not going to take Kuznetsov's mind off of trying to pass to Ovechkin, the way that 30-goal-scorer T.J. Oshie standing open by the net might.

Interesting to compare Puljujarvi to Laine. Laine produces big points on the PP whereas JP doesn't get to play on the PP, and the rare times he does it's the 2nd unit led by Ryan Strome. Also, Laine plays in the top-6 generally (I heard he was recently demoted to the 4th line) while McLellan rarely plays JP in the top-6, most of his minutes are with Lucic and Strome on the 3rd line. Here are their production rates at 5v5 with skill centers:

DRAFT +1
Puljujarvi w/ McDavid: 2.86 (84:01)
Puljujarvi w/ Draisaitl: 1.67 (107:28)
Laine w/ Scheifele: 3.01 (538:42)
Laine w/ Little: 1.76 (340:13)

Despite the lack of TOI, JP is producing 95% of what Laine is when both players are in the top-6.

DRAFT +2
Puljujarvi w/ McDavid: 1.87 (256:57)
Puljujarvi w/ Draisaitl: 2.37 (101:22)
Laine w/ Scheifele: 1.13 (52:55)
Laine w/ Little: 1.58 (455:13)

Laine had his 1st line ice time cut drastically on sub-par production, a fact that is under-reported. Why? Probably because he continued to get cherry PP minutes, something his compatriot never did. Here we see Puljujarvi outproducing Laine handily when in the top-6.

DRAFT +3
Puljujarvi w/ McDavid: 9.28 (6:28) ***
Puljujarvi w/ Draisaitl: 0.00 (30:57) ***
Laine w/ Scheifele: 2.08 (28:52) ***
Laine w/ Little: 0.00 (105:28) ***

Laine's production in the top-6 got him demoted to the bottom-6, yet he remains on the 1st PP unit with Scheifele, Wheeler, Connor, and Byfuglien. Puljujarvi's 1-goal-in-6-minute pace with McDavid gets him sent to the pressbox. See the difference here? Coaching - it's a thing.

Has it reached the media. It's amazing how seriously people take conversations between fans. I'm a dad in Flyover who watches most of the Caps' games online, cheers for my local ECHL team, and looks up stats for fun. I suggested this because Washington and Edmonton fans were both frustrated with these two players. The idea also came up last winter on the Hockey's Future board (I found out when I googled it) last January.

As a Caps fan, following conversations about potential short sales on Burakovsky, I've watched people undervalue him consistently all this fall, trying to offer him plus players and high draft picks for Wm. Nylander, but laughing at the idea of a one for one. I thought Puljujarvi was a more valuable player.... but when you look back at his his stats, the whole value comes from the WJC, and when you look at his linemates there, it's not an individual effort, ever. Laine and Aho are already NHL superstars. Juolevi is another top prospect. Maybe Puljujarvi learned enough in a couple months playing with them to start putting up his own numbers elsewhere, but so far he hasn't put up 15 goals or 30 points in any season, in any league, at any level. He fits in well on a great power play with three great players, though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0vBmvS3o34

But in the WJC, he's doing great. He's making plays. He's making passes. He's weaving behind the net. He's using his speed. He's communicating with teammates, improvising plays, feeding off of Aho's motion and making goalies dizzy. In Edmonton, where it's been reported the team hired him an English tutor after a year, he isn't doing any of that. He's standing by the net and waiting for RNH or CMD to finish dancing and give him the puck for a tap in. He's less dynamic than Wilson in Washington. I tried to watch his Edmonton goal reel and just got bored half way through and had to stop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpPl58KQt0M

I've read that Finnish players take Swedish from 1st grade and Finnish from 3rd grade, and JP was born in Sweden, so his Swedish is probably better than his English, but from looking at the boring plays that he runs in Edmonton, where they're asking him to be just the guy who stands in front of the net every single play, that's not saying much. He could be a really good fit on a line with, say, Vrana and Eller, who both speak pretty decent Swedish. But I don't think the Caps need him in their top six. But if we've agreed he and AB are fair value for each other, the Caps should do it, and prearrange a flip to Carolina for A. Svechnikov, who is an ideal 1R, with playmaking and ridiculous shooting skills that perfectly compliment the creativity and all-around skill games that Ovechkin and Kuznetsov bring, and who speaks their language. Carolina should accept because JP and AHO were awesome together at WJC, and because JP and Svech have similar draft status. Caps can sweeten if necessary with AHLers. They've got extras.

Burakovsky (AB) got 17 even strength goals the last time he played a season mostly with Kuznetsov, when Kuznetsov was a rookie. Before trading AB for someone who probably doesn't fit on their top line, the Caps might try AB there, until Wilson comes back. Then if AB doesn't fit on the team with Wilson back, at least other teams can see that he still has some value, and can keep up with quick, talented, creative hockey players.

And here is Burakovsky's numbers beside Puljujarvi's:

DRAFT +1
Puljujarvi w/ McDavid: 2.86 (84:01)
Puljujarvi w/ Draisaitl: 1.67 (107:28)
Burakovsky: NO NHL TOI


DRAFT +2
Puljujarvi w/ McDavid: 1.87 (256:57) The bulk of this includes Lucic on the other wing. Without Lucic, McDavid-Puljujarvi saw their GF rate rise by over 50%.
Puljujarvi w/ McDavid [w/o Lucic]: 2.42 (74:34)
Puljujarvi w/ Draisaitl: 2.37 (101:22)
Burakovsky w/ Backstrom: 1.69 (212:54)
Burakovsky w/ Kuznetsov: 2.57 (46:45)

While you were putting this cool stuff together I was watching tape and commented above that Edmonton's coaches and/or Puljujarvi's lack of English skills make him play in Edmonton like he's totally slow and uncreative. He's just skating straight to the net, posting up in front of the net, and waiting for a tap in or a rebound. At the WJC he looked like almost as much of a playmaker as Aho or Laine, and much more so than Juolevi.

But how much of that is coaching and how much of that is that he was a lot better at talking to Aho, Laine, and Juolevi. The Canucks managed two of the most successful European careers in NHL history by just having the Sedins play with each other, so they could always talk to each other and learn from each other. Their adjustment to the NHL didn't require them to improve their English at all, so they started out as the same stars they were in Sweden. As they got older, the team shrugged and hired them a good Swedish winger for the other side. I've just watched every goal Puljujarvi has scored in the NHL and I didn't hear the announcer mention the name "Pekkarinen" once.

Edmonton is totally going to make a talented kid into a bust by taking a sink-or-swim attitude to learning a language, and not giving a top five draft pick top six minutes until his communication in a new language is on a level with his hockey skills.

In the AHL?

I love stats like these. Would you mind posting the link of how you create them?

I mean, I hate to ask you to post a comparison scrub or two, like Chiasson with McDavid, or Lucic with McDavid, when I could probably do it myself, and have fun learning along the way. The thing is, what I see in watching all of Puljujarvi's NHL goals is that they play him like Mark Tinordi's short-lived power play experiment. Tinner knew nothing about offense but he was big and tough and could screen goalies and hack at rebounds, so they had him do that and the power play briefly confused opponents and did well. In Puljujarvi's case I think the choice is by necessity from language deficits.

Here's a line tool: http://naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20172018&thruseason=20172018&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=EDM&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2017-10-04&td=2018-04-08&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8478402&p2=8479344&p3=8473473&p4=0&p5=0

Player with teammate: http://naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20142015&thruseason=20142015&stype=2&sit=5v5&stdoi=std&rate=y&v=t&playerid=8477444

To get the "Puljujarvi w/ McDavid [w/o Lucic]" numbers, I had to do a lot of manual work: I used the "line tool" to see where the Lucic-McDavid-Puljujarvi stats differed from the McDavid-Puljujarvi stats, then went to the nhl.com gamesheets to gather points and then watched goal videos to determine who was on the ice with CMD-JP when each goal was scored. Ergo:

2017-12-02 Puljujarvi scored with McDavid and Caggiula on the ice
2017-12-12 Puljujarvi scored with McDavid and Slepyshev on the ice
2017-12-23 a goal was scored with Puljujarvi, McDavid and Maroon on the ice (no points for JP)
2018-02-25 Puljujarvi assisted with McDavid and Maroon on the ice
2018-03-10 a goal was scored with Puljujarvi, McDavid and Strome on the ice (no points for JP)

All other points scored by Puljujarvi while McDavid was on last year also featured Lucic on. Lucic suppressed both players scoring, as you can see here:

http://naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20172018&thruseason=20172018&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=y&team=EDM&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2017-10-04&td=2018-04-08&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8478402&p2=8479344&p3=8473473&p4=0&p5=0

We're not worthy.

Haha. naturalstattrick is an excellent resource if you're into stats - enjoy!