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A new perspective to an old idea Nylander

Created by: TanSor
Team: 2018-19 Minnesota Wild
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 12, 2018
Published: Nov. 13, 2018
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Spurgeon offers a huge upgrade over Zaitsev. Now, I'm not saying Zaitsev is a terrible player, but Spurgeon is far superior both offensively and defensively. Spurgeon would become the 1RD Toronto is looking for.

Nino could really use a change in scenery. He has shown he can produce 20+ goal seasons and he could hit the 30 goal mark playing in Toronto. His contract is a bit of a risk if he doesn't show up on the score sheet (he has been incredibly snake-bitten this year despite playing well), which is why I added Zaitsev from the Leafs (since Zaitsev's contract is also a little risky due to the term). Nino has the benefit of being able to play both sides and could be a nice LW for Matthew or Tavares.

Coyle was injured almost the entire year last year causing a dip in production, but he's still a solid middle 6 forward. He'd be a big upgrade to Brown and would probably slot in next to Kadri on the 3rd line (once Matthews returns). Toronto is getting him at a hair over what they are paying now, which is why I added the pick from Toronto.



To sum it up:

Rumors are that Toronto needs help with their depth scoring. Toronto addresses exaclty that here and gets two wingers that have put up near 60 point seasons in the past. They also add a top pairing RD to address their defensive needs. The 5th is to add a little bit more value to Toronto to balance out the fact they'd lose a 4th here.

MN gets a young stud forward to help them get younger and more skilled along with a serviceable top 4 defenseman with a sketchy contract, a bottom 6 winger, and a slightly better draft pick.



Cap implications for Toronto is laid out in the trade below. I went back and forth between giving MN a 3rd or a 4th from Toronto but ultimately decided on the 4th. Let me know if you think I should swap it or alter the trade slightly to make it more fair.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
7$7,500,000
Trades
MIN
  1. Brown, Connor
  2. Zaitsev, Nikita
  3. 2019 4th round pick (STL)
Additional Details:
Rights to William Nylander
TOR
  1. Coyle, Charlie ($1,000,000 retained)
  2. Niederreiter, Nino
  3. Spurgeon, Jared
  4. 2019 5th round pick (MIN)
Additional Details:
Here's how this helps Toronto's salary position:
Toronto wants to sign Willy near $6.5M (I believe this is the number they feel comfortable with to be able to re-sign Matthews and Marner and all their other RFA's) so I'll use that number.

Leafs cap between these 3 Leafs players next year using $6.5M for Willy:
$13,100,000

Leafs cap next year if they got these Wild players (using $1M retention for Coyle):
$12,637,500

So Leafs save a little less than $500k by making this trade which helps their flexibility even more. If they signed Willy to the $7.5M I'd be willing to give him, this number increases to $1.5M in savings which is about what 2 depth players cost.
Buyouts
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2018
2019
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the STL
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
2020
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
2021
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the MIN
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$79,500,000$76,300,258$25,000$825,000$3,199,742
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$3,500,000$3,500,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$5,750,000$5,750,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$7,538,462$7,538,462
LW
NMC
UFA - 7
$7,500,000$7,500,000
RW
UFA - 6
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$916,666$916,666 (Performance Bonus$400,000$400K)
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$5,500,000$5,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,100,000$2,100,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$2,875,000$2,875,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$1,000,000$1,000,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$687,500$687,500
RW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$7,538,462$7,538,462
LD
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$6,000,000$6,000,000
RD
UFA - 5
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$2,166,667$2,166,667
G
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$4,166,667$4,166,667
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 6
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$650,000$650,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$725,000$725,000
LD/RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RD
UFA - 3
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$700,000$700,000
RW, C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$650,000$650,000
RD
UFA - 1

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Nov. 13, 2018 at 12:48 p.m.
#1
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If Toronto needs help with Depth scoring, then is there a better addition than one William Nylander?

This is why trading him is the absolute worst case scenario. He's a top player and is so hard to replace.

Props though for actually giving him a higher contract. Everyone else on here is offering him right around the same price as the Leafs are apparently willing to go. Why would he sign for a lower cap hit with other teams than the Leafs?
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Nov. 13, 2018 at 12:51 p.m.
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The only way Matthews only signs a team discount of 6.5 is if Dubas is in reality a magical wizard that can mess with players minds to his will lol, which btw so far doesn't seem to be the case.
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Nov. 13, 2018 at 12:53 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
If Toronto needs help with Depth scoring, then is there a better addition than one William Nylander?

This is why trading him is the absolute worst case scenario. He's a top player and is so hard to replace.

Props though for actually giving him a higher contract. Everyone else on here is offering him right around the same price as the Leafs are apparently willing to go. Why would he sign for a lower cap hit with other teams than the Leafs?


First of all, he hasn't confirmed his asking price, and it's irresponsible to speculate.

Second, yes, there are lots of other guys who could get 40 points on a third line with Kadri.
Nov. 13, 2018 at 12:54 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: JelloPony
The only way Matthews only signs a team discount of 6.5 is if Dubas is in reality a magical wizard that can mess with players minds to his will lol, which btw so far doesn't seem to be the case.


Or if his comparables include guys like Jason Zucker, who scored a dozen more goals than him last year, and a few more points, on a much weaker team? Because if you look right up above, the RFA contract that Zucker signed, that's an absolute ceiling for what Nylander could possibly be asking for.....
Nov. 13, 2018 at 12:56 p.m.
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
If Toronto needs help with Depth scoring, then is there a better addition than one William Nylander?

This is why trading him is the absolute worst case scenario. He's a top player and is so hard to replace.

Props though for actually giving him a higher contract. Everyone else on here is offering him right around the same price as the Leafs are apparently willing to go. Why would he sign for a lower cap hit with other teams than the Leafs?


Could not agree more. A Nylander signing is the best solution for the Leafs depth scoring, ironically. All of my Nylander trades are based on the assumption that Toronto is unwilling to sign him at the $7.5M price point that I would be willing to do (which I think it is pretty clear they are). Trading him is obviously is not the best-case scenario for the Leafs but if they are forced to trade him I think this is a realistic option.

You're absolutely right, I always chuckle to myself when I see trades for him only for the poster of said trade to sign him for under or near $6.5M. He'd be on the Leafs today if he were willing to take that. Hell, I think he'd be on the Leafs if both parties are willing to take around $6.75M, Dubas could figure something out next year. He might have to trade away a contract like Brown to make it work but it's certainly doable under $7M. The whole reason Toronto would trade him is because he wants more money they can afford and by signing him to that amount, they wouldn't be able to keep Matthews and Marner.
Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:00 p.m.
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Quoting: Eli
Or if his comparables include guys like Jason Zucker, who scored a dozen more goals than him last year, and a few more points, on a much weaker team? Because if you look right up above, the RFA contract that Zucker signed, that's an absolute ceiling for what Nylander could possibly be asking for.....


You like to use Zucker as a comparable, but I don't see it. Sure they have similar points the year prior to the year they needed extensions, but Zucker only had one 60+ point season at age 26 after struggling immensely in the NHL prior to that, while Nylander has basically been a star the moment he entered the league and he's only 22. As somebody who watched Zucker develop, he was such a frustrating player his first few years. He eventually found his game but it's a completely different case to Nylander who has never struggled in the NHL. Add in the age factor and it isn't close IMO. Also Nylander can play center, which raises his value even further.
Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:11 p.m.
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Nylander (not getting into my disdain for that salary number) would be a RW on this roster not a center. Koivu/Staal are better centers and there aren't enough wings to make a quality 3rd line. It's a decent top-6 team and 2 4th lines. Greenway and JEE are coming along, but 40p for either of them is close to dreaming.

I'm not fond of the Spurgeon for Zaitsev swap. It's unneeded imo. It'll just create another Reilly/Olofsson situation but for RD in the future. It also will be another expansion draft headache for MN and their d-men.

Brown for Coyle could work. I'm don't really like either of them, but I'm sick of seeing Coyle kill all momentum when the puck gets near him. Losing the center option Coyle brings hurts a little, but I'd take it.

Nino is starting to find his game. It's still not where it should be but he's making his presence felt on the ice. I'd still look to trade Zucker before Nino: better return, and I really don't like Zucker's 5 year contract.
Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:17 p.m.
#8
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I dont like moving Zaitsev, imo hes one of our better D.
We need to add to our Rhd without subtracting him.
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Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:20 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: arousedcat
You like to use Zucker as a comparable, but I don't see it. Sure they have similar points the year prior to the year they needed extensions, but Zucker only had one 60+ point season at age 26 after struggling immensely in the NHL prior to that, while Nylander has basically been a star the moment he entered the league and he's only 22. As somebody who watched Zucker develop, he was such a frustrating player his first few years. He eventually found his game but it's a completely different case to Nylander who has never struggled in the NHL. Add in the age factor and it isn't close IMO. Also Nylander can play center, which raises his value even further.


His age gives him more working years left. They're allowed to reference goals, too. Zucker put up over 30. Nylander tops out at 22, so far. McDavid doesn't get 12M for being the youngest guy in the NHL with 120 points. He gets 12M for being the only guy in the NHL with 120 points. Since there have been RFAs and UFAs, the UFAs have made more, while the RFAs have paid dues to try to earn those big contracts later.
Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:21 p.m.
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Quoting: wabit
Nylander (not getting into my disdain for that salary number) would be a RW on this roster not a center. Koivu/Staal are better centers and there aren't enough wings to make a quality 3rd line. It's a decent top-6 team and 2 4th lines. Greenway and JEE are coming along, but 40p for either of them is close to dreaming.

I'm not fond of the Spurgeon for Zaitsev swap. It's unneeded imo. It'll just create another Reilly/Olofsson situation but for RD in the future. It also will be another expansion draft headache for MN and their d-men.

Brown for Coyle could work. I'm don't really like either of them, but I'm sick of seeing Coyle kill all momentum when the puck gets near him. Losing the center option Coyle brings hurts a little, but I'd take it.

Nino is starting to find his game. It's still not where it should be but he's making his presence felt on the ice. I'd still look to trade Zucker before Nino: better return, and I really don't like Zucker's 5 year contract.


I can get behind the Nylander at RW idea, I still think he'd be the best option to be our future 1C and he should play center here but he's been very good at RW.

I'm not sure how grabbing Zaitsev complicates the expansion draft... If they use the same template as last time (7 forwards, 3 defenseman, and a goalie) this makes the decision so easy. We have tons of good RD prospects and belpedio will probably be close to ready for NHL minutes next year. For forwards you protect Koivu, Parise, Staal (assuming we re-sign him), Zucker, Granlund, Nylander, and Greenway which exposes Eriksson Ek and for defenseman you protect Suter, Dumba, and Brodin exposing Zaitsev. Seattle would probably pick Eriksson Ek which wouldn't be ideal but it's not a huge loss by any means.

I just view Zucker's speed as a far too valuable asset to this team. We aren't a fast team, we can look fast by making good passes but we would lack a true speedster if we lost Zucker. Zucker is also the closest thing we have to a pure goal-scorer and he's developed some awesome chemistry with Granlund. I just view Nino as the odd man out, he has been better recently but he could thrive in a place like Toronto.
Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:23 p.m.
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Quoting: Trickster
I dont like moving Zaitsev, imo hes one of our better D.
We need to add to our Rhd without subtracting him.


I figured somebody would say that. Losing Zaitsev isn't ideal for you but Spurgeon is definitely an upgrade. I've proposed so many trades that sent a combination of all of these Wild players to Toronto without trading for Zaitsev and I figured something new would be nice.
Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:25 p.m.
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Quoting: Eli
First of all, he hasn't confirmed his asking price, and it's irresponsible to speculate.

Second, yes, there are lots of other guys who could get 40 points on a third line with Kadri.


True, speculation is 99% of this entire conversation and the media calls it reporting. Its such a joke and its so annoying to have to listen to all the time. LOL

Yeah there are a lot of guys who could get 40 points on the third line with Kadri. Nylander would likely get 60-80 with anyone who can put the puck in the net. He's really a great player and not just a 60 point winger. He's extremely talented. Which is why I say he is the absolute best addition TO could make this season.
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Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:25 p.m.
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Quoting: arousedcat
You like to use Zucker as a comparable, but I don't see it. Sure they have similar points the year prior to the year they needed extensions, but Zucker only had one 60+ point season at age 26 after struggling immensely in the NHL prior to that, while Nylander has basically been a star the moment he entered the league and he's only 22. As somebody who watched Zucker develop, he was such a frustrating player his first few years. He eventually found his game but it's a completely different case to Nylander who has never struggled in the NHL. Add in the age factor and it isn't close IMO. Also Nylander can play center, which raises his value even further.


The only time Zucker has struggled immensely is after the got concussed in the outdoor game a few years ago. You seem to be forgetting that Zucker was in Yeo's doghouse because he didn't buy enough into his all defense all the time system (see Vanek and Nino also), and he got no PP time. I'll give you the age difference between the two of them and getting their NHL start. Nylander is a better passer than Zucker ever will be. Zucker has a better shot though.
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Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:26 p.m.
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Quoting: arousedcat
Could not agree more. A Nylander signing is the best solution for the Leafs depth scoring, ironically. All of my Nylander trades are based on the assumption that Toronto is unwilling to sign him at the $7.5M price point that I would be willing to do (which I think it is pretty clear they are). Trading him is obviously is not the best-case scenario for the Leafs but if they are forced to trade him I think this is a realistic option.

You're absolutely right, I always chuckle to myself when I see trades for him only for the poster of said trade to sign him for under or near $6.5M. He'd be on the Leafs today if he were willing to take that. Hell, I think he'd be on the Leafs if both parties are willing to take around $6.75M, Dubas could figure something out next year. He might have to trade away a contract like Brown to make it work but it's certainly doable under $7M. The whole reason Toronto would trade him is because he wants more money they can afford and by signing him to that amount, they wouldn't be able to keep Matthews and Marner.


I think 7.5 should be the absolute top price the Leafs should be willing to pay Nylander. If he gets that offer from someone else, unless the return is nuts, I'd just pay Nylander that offer and figure out next year afterwards.
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Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:27 p.m.
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Quoting: wabit
The only time Zucker has struggled immensely is after the got concussed in the outdoor game a few years ago. You seem to be forgetting that Zucker was in Yeo's doghouse because he didn't buy enough into his all defense all the time system (see Vanek and Nino also), and he got no PP time. I'll give you the age difference between the two of them and getting their NHL start. Nylander is a better passer than Zucker ever will be. Zucker has a better shot though.


Can you please post this story, in longer, more detailed form, as a Caps build, titled "hope for Burakovsky?"
Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:28 p.m.
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Quoting: Eli
His age gives him more working years left. They're allowed to reference goals, too. Zucker put up over 30. Nylander tops out at 22, so far. McDavid doesn't get 12M for being the youngest guy in the NHL with 120 points. He gets 12M for being the only guy in the NHL with 120 points. Since there have been RFAs and UFAs, the UFAs have made more, while the RFAs have paid dues to try to earn those big contracts later.


That's fine, my point still stands. Nylander is only 22 and has been a far more consistent player than Zucker. Using McDavid's situation doesn't even compare here unless we're talking about Matthews. Does Matthews get $11-12M per year for being a ppg player last year? Cause if we're using that argument he should be more around $10M. Matthews will get that much money since he'll be a close to 100 point player in the future. He's injured this year so he probably won't put up 100 points. Zucker was an RFA when he signed his contract... so I don't see what you're saying with your last sentence.
Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:30 p.m.
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Quoting: arousedcat
That's fine, my point still stands. Nylander is only 22 and has been a far more consistent player than Zucker. Using McDavid's situation doesn't even compare here unless we're talking about Matthews. Does Matthews get $11-12M per year for being a ppg player last year? Cause if we're using that argument he should be more around $10M. Matthews will get that much money since he'll be a close to 100 point player in the future. He's injured this year so he probably won't put up 100 points. Zucker was an RFA when he signed his contract... so I don't see what you're saying with your last sentence.


If Matthews doesn't get 80 points this year, I have to think he signs a bridge deal for a few years around 8M, maybe five years? Teams have tried paying players for potential. It doesn't always work. http://www.nhl.com/ice/m_news.htm?id=676316
Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:40 p.m.
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Quoting: arousedcat
I can get behind the Nylander at RW idea, I still think he'd be the best option to be our future 1C and he should play center here but he's been very good at RW.

I'm not sure how grabbing Zaitsev complicates the expansion draft... If they use the same template as last time (7 forwards, 3 defenseman, and a goalie) this makes the decision so easy. We have tons of good RD prospects and belpedio will probably be close to ready for NHL minutes next year. For forwards you protect Koivu, Parise, Staal (assuming we re-sign him), Zucker, Granlund, Nylander, and Greenway which exposes Eriksson Ek and for defenseman you protect Suter, Dumba, and Brodin exposing Zaitsev. Seattle would probably pick Eriksson Ek which wouldn't be ideal but it's not a huge loss by any means.

I just view Zucker's speed as a far too valuable asset to this team. We aren't a fast team, we can look fast by making good passes but we would lack a true speedster if we lost Zucker. Zucker is also the closest thing we have to a pure goal-scorer and he's developed some awesome chemistry with Granlund. I just view Nino as the odd man out, he has been better recently but he could thrive in a place like Toronto.


Umm Parise, Staal? Zucker wishes he could be the goal scorers they are now. Not many players can luck their way into what breaks down to ~30g/yr career averages over the span of 900+ games. Zucker is a 1-trick pony with his speed, he's about average at everything else.
Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:42 p.m.
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Quoting: wabit
Umm Parise, Staal? Zucker wishes he could be the goal scorers they are now. Not many players can luck their way into what breaks down to ~30g/yr career averages over the span of 900+ games. Zucker is a 1-trick pony with his speed, he's about average at everything else.


I see don't see Staal putting up close to 40 goals ever again and Parise hasn't been a goal scorer the past few years due to his injuries (excluding his very good stint at the end of last year). I'm not saying Zucker is our pure goal scorer, but he's been close to that.
Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:48 p.m.
#20
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Quoting: Eli
Can you please post this story, in longer, more detailed form, as a Caps build, titled "hope for Burakovsky?"


Burakovsky will hit his 300th game this year; it's time for him to show what he is as a player. I go by that benchmark more than a player's age. He's also a much different player than Zucker.
Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:56 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: wabit
Burakovsky will hit his 300th game this year; it's time for him to show what he is as a player. I go by that benchmark more than a player's age. He's also a much different player than Zucker.


He hasn't hit 3500 career minutes, and has 122 points, including 106 at even strength, plus 16 in the playoffs, at 23. Zucker has over 5300 career minutes and 185 points including 153 at even strength at 27, plus 8 in the playoffs.

So, basically, in almost 50% more ice time, Zucker has almost 50% more points? Except when it matters? Cool story.
Nov. 13, 2018 at 1:59 p.m.
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Quoting: arousedcat
I see don't see Staal putting up close to 40 goals ever again and Parise hasn't been a goal scorer the past few years due to his injuries (excluding his very good stint at the end of last year). I'm not saying Zucker is our pure goal scorer, but he's been close to that.


Parise is still a goal scorer, that he was doing it with his bad back is even more impressive. Zucker will be lucky to get 30g again with the Wild, he was lucky last year with 5 ENG to get him over the 30g mark. When he speed is taken away (Playoffs) he's just another guy on the ice.
Nov. 13, 2018 at 2:13 p.m.
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Quoting: Eli
Or if his comparables include guys like Jason Zucker, who scored a dozen more goals than him last year, and a few more points, on a much weaker team? Because if you look right up above, the RFA contract that Zucker signed, that's an absolute ceiling for what Nylander could possibly be asking for.....


Are you really trying to make Jason Zucker a comparable based off of one season? Last two years (inc. playoffs):

Matthews / Zucker
Age 21 26
GP 156 171
G 79 56
A 60 56
P 139 112
PPG .89 .65
Nov. 13, 2018 at 2:19 p.m.
#24
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Quoting: Eli
He hasn't hit 3500 career minutes, and has 122 points, including 106 at even strength, plus 16 in the playoffs, at 23. Zucker has over 5300 career minutes and 185 points including 153 at even strength at 27, plus 8 in the playoffs.

So, basically, in almost 50% more ice time, Zucker has almost 50% more points? Except when it matters? Cool story.


I don't care about minutes, never claimed to. Games played matters more to me. 300 games is roughly 4 full seasons in the NHL; that's all the practices, video, and offseason work included. Any physical skill improvement is going to be minor at that point. It's the mental part of the game (when it finally clicks or it doesn't) that shows up at that point. There are exceptions (Burns), but for most players it holds true.

What hope am I supposed to give about Burakovsky? That he could be a nice 3rd line player; which I think he is; or that he's actually a 1st line wing that's been held down by the man? He's behind better players in Washington, he'd be in the bottom-6 with no PP time in MN too. Put him next to McDavid and he's a 50p-60p player. Nothing wrong with what he is for where he was picked and his draft year.
Nov. 13, 2018 at 2:48 p.m.
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Quoting: wabit
Parise is still a goal scorer, that he was doing it with his bad back is even more impressive. Zucker will be lucky to get 30g again with the Wild, he was lucky last year with 5 ENG to get him over the 30g mark. When he speed is taken away (Playoffs) he's just another guy on the ice.


You're missing my point. Zuckers best attribute is his goalscoring ability. Parise can do it all, Staal can do it all, Granlund can do it all. Zucker isn't good at passing and he's mediocre at defending. That makes him the closest thing to a pure goal scorer as we have. He's not an elite player, but goal scoring is the thing he's best at.

Edit: speed is his other best attribute, forgot to include that.
 
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