Forums/Armchair-GM

Life without Matthews

Created by: palhal
Initial Creation Date: Nov 20, 2018
Published: Nov 20, 2018 at 7:51
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Team Explanation
Let's imagine. Arizona makes a 15m offer that the Leafs can't/won't match for Matthews. Could be the Leafs realize it is coming an signs Nylander long term to play centre,
Leafs still have cap to a veteran signing. For all the criticism (I don't know why) Hainsey 10 points, plus 13 so far this year is resigned to help Liljegren and his adjustment
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Johnsson, Andreas3$1,300,000
Kapanen, Kasperi6$4,750,000
Marner, Mitchell8$9,500,000
Nylander, William8$7,500,000
Ozhiganov, Igor3$2,750,000
Leivo, Josh2$1,100,000
Sparks, Garret2$900,000
Rosén, Calle1$1,300,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Lindholm, Pär3$1,500,000
Hainsey, Ron1$3,000,000
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
  • Robin Lehner: $1,100,000 (22%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
1
2
2020
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
EDM
SJS
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
24$83,000,000$81,201,666$0$400,000$1,798,334
Left WingCenterRight Wing
TOR
Hyman, Zach
$2,250,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$9,500,000
RW
UFA - 6
TOR
Marleau, Patrick
$6,250,000
LW, C
NMC
UFA - 1
TOR
Nylander, William
$7,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 5
TOR
Kapanen, Kasperi
$4,750,000
RW
RFA - 3
TOR
Marleau, Patrick
$700,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
TOR
Kadri, Nazem
$4,500,000
C
NTC
UFA - 3
TOR
Brown, Connor
$2,100,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
TOR
Johnsson, Andreas
$1,300,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
TOR
Gauthier, Frédérik
$675,000
C
RFA - 1
TOR
Leivo, Josh
$1,100,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
TOR
Grundström, Carl
$925,000
LW
RFA - 1
TOR
Lindholm, Pär
$1,500,000
LW, C
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
TOR
Zaitsev, Nikita
$4,500,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 5
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Dermott, Travis
$863,333
LD/RD
RFA - 1
TOR
Ozhiganov, Igor
$2,750,000
RD
UFA
TOR
Sparks, Garret
$900,000
G
UFA - 1
TOR
Hainsey, Ron
$3,000,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Liljegren, Timothy
$863,333
RD
RFA - 3
TOR
Rosén, Calle
$1,300,000
LD
UFA - 2
TOR
Holl, Justin
$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
TOR
Horton, Nathan
$5,300,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1

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Nov 20, 2018 at 8:05
#1
Bcarlo25
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 19,298
Likes: 6,452
and I assume those four first rounders are used to go after a big time D man.
Nov 20, 2018 at 8:19
#2
Log off the internet
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,733
Likes: 3,788
Quoting: Bcarlo25
and I assume those four first rounders are used to go after a big time D man.


bro our defense is fine we already have Rielly, Zaitsev, Dermott and Ozhiganov
wojme, Ragsandbluesfan, Blazingbat11 and 1 other person liked this.
Nov 20, 2018 at 8:30
#3
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 21,809
Likes: 6,852
Quoting: Bcarlo25
and I assume those four first rounders are used to go after a big time D man.


If this ends the season in the top 5 in goals against and Rielly wins the Norris you'd still say there defence sucks. I'd even wager if they also beat Boston 4 straight in the play offs allowing zero goals, you still wouldn't give them credit.
Nov 20, 2018 at 9:24
#4
retain deez nuts
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,427
Likes: 934
Quoting: Hedman77
bro our defense is fine we already have Rielly, Zaitsev, Dermott and Ozhiganov


It's weird how the leafs are 5th in least goals allowed. They are also 4th best in goals allowed per game at 2.52. Note that they also have played 21 games compared to everyone else who has better defensive numbers than them, with the exclusion of NSH and BOS who both have 21 as well
Nov 20, 2018 at 9:25
#5
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,913
Likes: 413
An offer sheet would be the worst case scenario spreading the assets over a number of years. If he's going to go, the best case scenario would be a package with help now.

Would another GM offer so much money for a player that has little impact on the team's success?
Nov 20, 2018 at 9:33
#6
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 629
Quoting: LoganOllivier
If this ends the season in the top 5 in goals against and Rielly wins the Norris you'd still say there defence sucks. I'd even wager if they also beat Boston 4 straight in the play offs allowing zero goals, you still wouldn't give them credit.


Those things are not going to happen though. Rielly is a decent Dman. This is literally the only year he is a + player. He is not a Norris caliber dman. He's just not. His Corsi and Fenwick are still pretty bad despite his offensive numbers. Nobody questions the Leafs ability to score and he plays a pretty big part in that.

If what you said happens, I will give them credit, but it won't.

They certaintly will not finish top 5 in GA
They will not sweep the Bruins (giving up 0 goals or 15) - Even if they did, they would get swept by Tampa.
Rielly will not win Norris.
Nov 20, 2018 at 9:37
#7
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 21,809
Likes: 6,852
Quoting: Propeller09
Those things are not going to happen though. Rielly is a decent Dman. This is literally the only year he is a + player. He is not a Norris caliber dman. He's just not. His Corsi and Fenwick are still pretty bad despite his offensive numbers. Nobody questions the Leafs ability to score and he plays a pretty big part in that.

If what you said happens, I will give them credit, but it won't.

They certaintly will not finish top 5 in GA
They will not sweep the Bruins (giving up 0 goals or 15) - Even if they did, they would get swept by Tampa.
Rielly will not win Norris.


Why bother hiding your bias? Toronto is dominant and that is without 2 of the top players out of the lineup. Until they win the cup (I am not guaranteeing that will happen), you and people like you will continue to say they aren't good and all their players are overrated.

Rielly is currently the front runner for the Norris and he's doing that while boosting the worst "Top Pair" defenceman in the league in Hainsey.
Nov 20, 2018 at 9:43
#8
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 21,809
Likes: 6,852
Quoting: Gronk
It's weird how the leafs are 5th in least goals allowed. They are also 4th best in goals allowed per game at 2.52. Note that they also have played 21 games compared to everyone else who has better defensive numbers than them, with the exclusion of NSH and BOS who both have 21 as well


The weirdest thing to me is how these people say the same thing all the time. "Andersen is just an okay goalie he's definitely not a top tier goalie he's just good and the defence is the worst." Yet somehow, Andersen is leading the league in wins, is in the top 4 in save percentage and the as you mentioned the team is 4th in Goals Against. That is amazing considering they have the worst defence in league and an average goalie.
Gronk liked this.
Nov 20, 2018 at 9:48
#9
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 14,245
Likes: 6,186
While this isnt a likely scenario, it is plausible. Arizona needs a silver bullet for more than just on ice reasons. Mathews is from Arizona and they struggle to keep the arena full.
palhal liked this.
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:02
#10
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 629
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Why bother hiding your bias? Toronto is dominant and that is without 2 of the top players out of the lineup. Until they win the cup (I am not guaranteeing that will happen), you and people like you will continue to say they aren't good and all their players are overrated.

Rielly is currently the front runner for the Norris and he's doing that while boosting the worst "Top Pair" defenceman in the league in Hainsey.


I am not sure I am hiding anything. I am looking at statistics. Things that have happened. Honestly it's Leafs fans anointing themselves Cup champions because you signed Tavares.
Leafs Fans are quick to dismiss the departures of JVR, Bozak, Komarov and Nylander. You still have an average at best goalie and a below avg D. The thing about stats is these things generally catch up.
You are trying to act like something should be handed to the Leafs. Thank you so much for not "Guaranteeing" the Leafs will win the Cup considering the haven't won a round in the playoffs. Matthews has exactly zero playoff series wins. I am not sure who you think people are saying is overrated besides Rielly and that's really on this year because of his start. Andersen and his 2.81 GAA last year? How about his 3.19GAA as a Leafs playoff goalie.

I honestly think you are confusing your sense of entitlement as a "bias" if people don't agree the Cup is Toronto bound.
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:08
#11
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 629
Quoting: LoganOllivier
The weirdest thing to me is how these people say the same thing all the time. "Andersen is just an okay goalie he's definitely not a top tier goalie he's just good and the defence is the worst." Yet somehow, Andersen is leading the league in wins, is in the top 4 in save percentage and the as you mentioned the team is 4th in Goals Against. That is amazing considering they have the worst defence in league and an average goalie.


Let the season play out. He has played well. Halak has played well, but I don't all of the sudden think he is the best goalie in the league.
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:17
#12
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 629
Quoting: LoganOllivier
The weirdest thing to me is how these people say the same thing all the time. "Andersen is just an okay goalie he's definitely not a top tier goalie he's just good and the defence is the worst." Yet somehow, Andersen is leading the league in wins, is in the top 4 in save percentage and the as you mentioned the team is 4th in Goals Against. That is amazing considering they have the worst defence in league and an average goalie.


let's play a game. It's game 7 and you can pick any goalie in the league - is Andersen in that Top Tier?
Price, Rinne, Lunqvist, Holtby, Vasilevsky, Bobrovsky, Fleury, Murray, Jones, Quick & Dubnyk I am taking easily over Andersen.
Rask, Helleybuck, Crawford, Gibson, Andersen are the next middle group -in my opinion.

Rask is the NHL all time save % leader. Does that mean he is the greatest goalie of all time? C'mon now.
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:19
#13
Log off the internet
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,733
Likes: 3,788
Quoting: Gronk
It's weird how the leafs are 5th in least goals allowed. They are also 4th best in goals allowed per game at 2.52. Note that they also have played 21 games compared to everyone else who has better defensive numbers than them, with the exclusion of NSH and BOS who both have 21 as well


thanks for proving my point
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:22
#14
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 21,809
Likes: 6,852
Quoting: Propeller09
I am not sure I am hiding anything. I am looking at statistics. Things that have happened. Honestly it's Leafs fans anointing themselves Cup champions because you signed Tavares.
Leafs Fans are quick to dismiss the departures of JVR, Bozak, Komarov and Nylander. You still have an average at best goalie and a below avg D. The thing about stats is these things generally catch up.
You are trying to act like something should be handed to the Leafs. Thank you so much for not "Guaranteeing" the Leafs will win the Cup considering the haven't won a round in the playoffs. Matthews has exactly zero playoff series wins. I am not sure who you think people are saying is overrated besides Rielly and that's really on this year because of his start. Andersen and his 2.81 GAA last year? How about his 3.19GAA as a Leafs playoff goalie.

I honestly think you are confusing your sense of entitlement as a "bias" if people don't agree the Cup is Toronto bound.


You're a goof, and putting words in my mouth. The reality is, TO is a top team in the league this year, which doesn't mean much beyond that until the playoffs start. Discussing anything with an obvious troll is fruitless and a waste of time.

You said it yourself "TO has an average goalie and a below average defence" and yet some how they set a franchise record in points last year and are currently #1 in the eastern conference without Matthews and Nylander in the lineup. I am not entitled I'm just enjoying this teams success. Are you sure you even understand what entitled means?

On top of that, why do you feel the need to jump on Leaf fans and insult them? Have I followed you around and criticized thinks you enjoy? What would that say about me if I went around bringing people down a notch because I don't like something as trivial as the same hockey team as someone else?

Being a troll isn't something to be proud of, having constructive conversations is a path to bettering ones understanding of any topic, not demeaning anyone who has a different view than you.

Bringing others down, doesn't elevate you, it just lowers everyone.
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:25
#15
#LeafsFever
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 918
I do not think Hainsey will be resigned, even on a 1-year deal. You noted in your comments something about his point total so far, but how many of those assists are secondary? I think most of them are. He is not even a top-4 defenseman, yet he gets the minutes similar to one. I think the Leafs can find a better option between the trade and free agency market to replace him.
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:27
#16
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 21,809
Likes: 6,852
Quoting: Propeller09
let's play a game. It's game 7 and you can pick any goalie in the league - is Andersen in that Top Tier?
Price, Rinne, Lunqvist, Holtby, Vasilevsky, Bobrovsky, Fleury, Murray, Jones, Quick & Dubnyk I am taking easily over Andersen.
Rask, Helleybuck, Crawford, Gibson, Andersen are the next middle group -in my opinion.

Rask is the NHL all time save % leader. Does that mean he is the greatest goalie of all time? C'mon now.


It doesn't matter what I say, and none of this matters. Put Quick in a Leafs jersey and you'd call him overrated.

I have zero doubts that if Toronto won the cup with this lineup, you and people like you would be saying how it was because of injuries or the refs handed it to them or blah blah blah. There is no conversation here.

This is the reality, there are many super bias and ridiculous Leaf fans.......like every fan base has. The weird thing is there may be even more people like you, fans of apparently just hating the Leafs for no rational reason. I don't understand it and I don't want to, because hating a hockey team more than loving hockey is insanity to me and I have no time for that kind of negativity.
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:28
#17
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 21,809
Likes: 6,852
Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
While this isnt a likely scenario, it is plausible. Arizona needs a silver bullet for more than just on ice reasons. Mathews is from Arizona and they struggle to keep the arena full.


Which would be a big reason he wouldn't want to go there, the spectre of being uprooted to a different market (one of Florida or Arizona will eventually end up in Quebec City) is a huge deterrent as is not playing in front of fans who care.
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:31
#18
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 629
Quoting: LoganOllivier
You're a goof, and putting words in my mouth. The reality is, TO is a top team in the league this year, which doesn't mean much beyond that until the playoffs start. Discussing anything with an obvious troll is fruitless and a waste of time.

You said it yourself "TO has an average goalie and a below average defence" and yet some how they set a franchise record in points last year and are currently #1 in the eastern conference without Matthews and Nylander in the lineup. I am not entitled I'm just enjoying this teams success. Are you sure you even understand what entitled means?

On top of that, why do you feel the need to jump on Leaf fans and insult them? Have I followed you around and criticized thinks you enjoy? What would that say about me if I went around bringing people down a notch because I don't like something as trivial as the same hockey team as someone else?

Being a troll isn't something to be proud of, having constructive conversations is a path to bettering ones understanding of any topic, not demeaning anyone who has a different view than you.

Bringing others down, doesn't elevate you, it just lowers everyone.


whoa buddy, not trolling anyone. In fact, you are the only one who insulted anyone. I think most people would agree Leafs fans have had a sense of entitlement since the Tavares signing. Nobody has said they are not a very good team, or one of the best teams in the league. You should be excited about the Leafs. They will be a contender for the next decade, but that doesn't mean that people can't criticize their perceived deficiencies.

YOU called me biased and I used facts to show you why I had my opinion and that it wasn't based on a bias.
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:37
#19
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 629
Edited Nov 20, 2018 at 10:48
Quoting: LoganOllivier
It doesn't matter what I say, and none of this matters. Put Quick in a Leafs jersey and you'd call him overrated.

I have zero doubts that if Toronto won the cup with this lineup, you and people like you would be saying how it was because of injuries or the refs handed it to them or blah blah blah. There is no conversation here.

This is the reality, there are many super bias and ridiculous Leaf fans.......like every fan base has. The weird thing is there may be even more people like you, fans of apparently just hating the Leafs for no rational reason. I don't understand it and I don't want to, because hating a hockey team more than loving hockey is insanity to me and I have no time for that kind of negativity.


What are you talking about? I don't hate the Leafs - I don't think they are overrated. Top 5 or better in the league. Never said otherwise, but they have some deficiencies. 99% of the people on here say Best offense in the league, but need to sure up the back end.

You keep creating these scenarios that don't exist and calling me a troll. If the Leafs win the Cup - good on them. I'll say Rielly was better than I thought and Andersen too. I thought they needed some D help, I was wrong. Damn.

BUT until then, I am going to look and say they need some D help.

If they don't win the Cup and Andersen's GAA is above 3 - are you going to say maybe they should improve their D or Goaltending? Personally, I think they can win with Andersen, but they need a true stud on D because I think teams like Nashville and Tampa are more well rounded. Just an opinion.
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:42
#20
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 21,809
Likes: 6,852
Quoting: Propeller09
whoa buddy, not trolling anyone. In fact, you are the only one who insulted anyone. I think most people would agree Leafs fans have had a sense of entitlement since the Tavares signing. Nobody has said they are not a very good team, or one of the best teams in the league. You should be excited about the Leafs. They will be a contender for the next decade, but that doesn't mean that people can't criticize their perceived deficiencies.

YOU called me biased and I used facts to show you why I had my opinion and that it wasn't based on a bias.


This statement is a far cry from saying TO has a below average defence and an average at best goalie. You also said Rielly is overrated and called me entitled for reasons I can't explain. Entitlement would be thinking we deserve the cup handed to us just for showing up. Not being happy with the success of this team because if that makes one entitled, then all Caps fans are entitled because they enjoyed watching their team win the cup and for hoping it happens again this year.

You can back track all you want, and that's fine, I don't really care. My point is, people who enjoy coming on here just to bring people down a notch for being excited about their team should not be celebrated. I am more than happy to have a constructive conversation about any topic and I respect anyone's opinion, right up until that opinion is clearly just a negative Leaf hater, people like that just want the Leafs to fail so they can feel better about their own lives. It doesn't work and its sad.
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:45
#21
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 21,809
Likes: 6,852
Quoting: Propeller09
What are you talking about? I don't hate the Leafs - I don't think they are overrated. Top 5 or better in the league. Never said otherwise, but they have some deficiencies. 99% of the people on here say Best offense in the league, but need to sure up the back end.


Saying they could upgrade the back end and saying they have a average at best goalie and a below average defence are not the same thing. Perhaps you fell victim to your own hyperbole there and didn't mean to go to the extreme but a team that is 4th in Goals Against and in the middle of the pack for shots against and has the 2nd best goal differential in the entire league really can't have a below average defence and an average goaltender.
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:52
#22
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 14,245
Likes: 6,186
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Saying they could upgrade the back end and saying they have a average at best goalie and a below average defence are not the same thing. Perhaps you fell victim to your own hyperbole there and didn't mean to go to the extreme but a team that is 4th in Goals Against and in the middle of the pack for shots against and has the 2nd best goal differential in the entire league really can't have a below average defence and an average goaltender.


Sure they can. The other team cant score if they dont have the puck. When you maintain possession you are going to have a wide differential. It's why possession is considered a top advanced stat.
Blazingbat11 liked this.
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:56
#23
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 21,809
Likes: 6,852
Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Sure they can. The other team cant score if they dont have the puck. When you maintain possession you are going to have a wide differential. It's why possession is considered a top advanced stat.


Is anyone disagreeing with that?
Nov 20, 2018 at 11:00
#24
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 629
Quoting: LoganOllivier
This statement is a far cry from saying TO has a below average defence and an average at best goalie. You also said Rielly is overrated and called me entitled for reasons I can't explain. Entitlement would be thinking we deserve the cup handed to us just for showing up. Not being happy with the success of this team because if that makes one entitled, then all Caps fans are entitled because they enjoyed watching their team win the cup and for hoping it happens again this year.

You can back track all you want, and that's fine, I don't really care. My point is, people who enjoy coming on here just to bring people down a notch for being excited about their team should not be celebrated. I am more than happy to have a constructive conversation about any topic and I respect anyone's opinion, right up until that opinion is clearly just a negative Leaf hater, people like that just want the Leafs to fail so they can feel better about their own lives. It doesn't work and its sad.


I feel like we are playing a semantics game here. Andersen in my opinion is an average goalie. I think Toronto's D is below average. Just my opinion. Meaning I would take more than 50% of the teams in the leauge D over Toronto's.

I would take the D on these teams over Toronto's D pretty easily (health assumed): NSH, BOS, MIN, TBL, CAR, WIN, CBJ, CAL, SJS, ANA, WAS, FLA, VEG, PHI, COL & probably a few more. Thus making them below average.

Doesn't mean they can't win.
Nov 20, 2018 at 11:02
#25
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 14,245
Likes: 6,186
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Is anyone disagreeing with that?


Just using stats with no context doesn't mean they have a good defense. If you say it's not worth investing major assets, I wouldnt argue
 
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