watch out for incoming leafs fans saying Marner should be #1

What is Wilson doing anywhere near this? Stone always getting underrated on these lists. I think Kuch is still clear no 1. Recency bias on Marner imo

I think their first issue will be that Nylander's not in this list, or even at the TOP10. (although one can say he doesn't belong to this list because he isn't currently in NHL)

Marner's definitely the 2nd though.

Wilson has 12 points in 8 games since coming back from his cup victory where he averaged .75ppg. That’s better than 90% of this list haha. Not saying he’s better than 90% but his stats would suggest him being higher if it’s based off this season

And it’s 2018-19 not 17-18 kuch is t better than rant this year. Rant imo is easily the best winger in the nhl this year. Again I said THIS YEAR

I’m assuming it’s based off this season. I could be wrong that’s just how I’m treating it though

not necessarily this season alone although thats what i took into account most in this list and yeah i think tom wilson has a big impact in games not even counting his production this season....but with his stats so far in 2018 it would be crazy not to have him in this list... and as you can see i have alex nylander on this list by accident i attempted to put willy on but hes not even available to put on this list

Kuch is #3 in rw points, #5 in total points and have been maybe the best offensive player except McDavid for the last 3 seasons. I just disagree with any list of flavor of the month players, for my money that list should be called best players this month or something, not "top 20 rw in nhl".

Now you argue for that, yet you defer to the recent cup run regarding Tom Wilson. He's the guy creating the least of his own offense on this list together with maybe Oshie and Palmieri.

okay thats why hes #20 you make it seem like i have to wilson rated above kucherov or something...

I'd just take a guy like Dadonov over him any day of the week

Where is Josh Bailey??

#21 lol he could easily be around 16-20 though

“Creates his own offense “ I mean that’s just a silly stat considering it benefits a certain playing style. He’s not a skill forward he’s a power forward. He creates chances by forechecking and retrieving the puck. He’s top 10 and hits and hits received.... that’s a more underrated stat that offsense created. To me this means he’s normally the first forward in the zone and goes to the ugly areas you normally won’t see your more “premiere superstars”. He’s also the caps best pk guy and looks great on the pp this year. I have to go by this year bc he never got a chance any other year.

He also adds a great defensive balance top a line the had a negative rating till he got there.

I’m not saying Kucherov isn’t good I’m simply saying this year rant and marner are better. You can be upset but that’s facts. Rant could make a case for best player in the nhl this year.

But hey It’s my opinion and what do I know

So.. What's a fact and what's your opinion exactly?

I think Tom Wilson *looks* like he's good defensively cause he forechecks, but then why doesn't the best defensive winger, maybe forward in the league crack the top 10?
Edit: this is Mark Stone obv
Sticklifting in the NZ and creating posession turnovers is a very tangible defensive stat. Hits handed out and recieved - not so much.

I'd much rather have say Elias Lindholm or Teuvo Tereväinen even if we're just going by players that play with other good players.
I think guys like Gallagher, Craig Smith (who will never be mentioned on any list cause his name is Craig Smith) and Tuch all do more on their own and play a better two-way game, where the latter is basically how people view Wilson - but better and without the stupid hits.
Like he's not untalented, but playing the way he does - although people find it exciting, turns out not to be a great way to win hockey games (hurr durr won cup - hindsight bias, the other players on the team were great). Compare him to Ovechkin, who actually hits with purpose and threatens multidimensionally and I'm sure you'll see the flaws

I didn’t say stone isn’t good either. I think stone is an extremely good forward. And tuch imo gets overlooked a lot and he’s talented.

Players that play with other good players. I laughed out loud reading that. If Wilson’s impact is so minimal why since his return are the caps 7-1 and the line he’s playing in producing at an above Ppg rate? This is also a team missing superstars like Oshie and kuzy. He’s a great player that complements skill talent bc hes fast and physical. Wilson is a great winger. Wilson hits w a purpose .... unless you know another reason why he hits. Did you have a conversation with him or know any other reasons why he hits. I’m pretty sure his purpose is to be physical and set a tone but again idk what hitting without a purpose is. Sounds like a thing people talking out of there ass say but what do I know.

You named all good players but Wilson is better. And blah blah blah cup wins. But you said his style isn’t good for winning but he played on the top line and won a cup seems like a really dumb arguement to make haha like he wilson style sucks and makes it hard to win? Wait the caps win the cup ? Wilson played his style ? Yeah wow yeah I’ll make sure to write him a letter informing him that his style of play is t good considering he was on the best line in the playoffs. Ha

He’s not untalented haha guy get over yourself Wilson is a stud. You make it hard for me to take you serious

Also players that play w good players?

Like
Nate Mac and rant
Stammer and kuch
Marner and jt
Malkin and kessel
Do I have to go on or does that just sound stupid reading it. Don’t the best players tend to play with each other?

Not sure as to why Tom Wilson is the hill you want to die on... couple of issues:
Winning the cup doesn’t mean what he did is right or not.
Kuznetsov played out of his mind that run, and guys like Orlov should get credited, not Tom wilson.
Plenty of teams have won even plenty of cups with players that weren’t or aren’t good, because all teams have bad players. I don’t know why you would use an 8 game sample size other than to weigh the discussion in your favor, but I guess Pominville makes this list and that Skinner is #1 LW and Eichel top3 C.

Hitting guys blindside to put yourself in the box and on the rafters might serve a purpose, but not a very good one. If he’s so good, wouldn’t you want him playing?

Again I can’t argue with your hindsight bias on that cup win, but if you think Tom Wilson doing his thing was causation and not just correlation I honestly don’t know what to tell you.

I’d still love to hear how a guy like Dadonov, Lindholm or Tereväinen does less than Wilson, if you somehow knock players for their managements ability to surround them with talent.

8 games sample size.? That’s all he played this season and I said like 3x that if it's based off this seasons. Wilson also was 5th in points and played 3 less games than everyone. He was a major factor in them winning.

Crosby when he won the conn scored 2 more points in 3 more games. That’s the kind of playoffs Wilson had but due go on with the he’s average and kuzy and ovi carries him. I’m just convinced you don’t watch the caps play bc if you did we wouldn’t be talking right now.

Again I didn’t say the other guys you named are bad. You keep bringing that up. I’m simply saying that based off the last 50 games Wilson could easily be higher on this list.

You are just the generic nhl fan that can’t admit Wilson is good bc you don’t like him which is cool but don’t be mad when I have 0 respect for your opinion. Like a female or male thinking a player is Hott so they are really good. That’s how I see you and your views on hockey

You're arguing bias? On my end? When we're discussing a player on your favorite team? And I constantly point to contributing numbers in the large sample where as you point to hits given and recieved and "setting the tone"? The amount of logical fallacies...
I've tried to be very clear in that I have no interest in rooting for or against the capitals or any of their players. The only difference is that the competence you attribute to Wilson, I attribute to guys I mentioned like Kuznetsov and Orlov. Other players on the Capitals, with high abilities of their own, make Tom Wilson look better than he is. In the same sense I think that Bäckström, and in some sense Ovechkin, makes Oshie look a lot better than he is based on the free shots he gets on the power play - due to Ovechkins shot being such a threat and Bäckströms passing ability.

I know how many points Wilson had, my issue is that he got free points by being on a good line. I'm convinced any of the players I mentioned would to better on his line, and that he would do worse on their lines, that's basically my entire argument boiled down to a sentence.

The issue with a small sample size (I can't believe I have to spell this out) is that guys like Zac Dalpe and Cameron Schilling all of a sudden are point per game guys. This is the line of arguing of someone dismissing stats for "not working" who intentionally, or just by being unaware, looks at stats that have no explanatory power.

okay ill dumb it down for you.....

kessell playing with malkin scores more than kessell with brassard does this mean hes not a good unless he plays with talent

marner playing with jt scores more than he did playing with kadri

difference is tom wilson is a skilled forward who can actually skate and keep up with high end talent unlike throwing a dsp or idk some other 4th liner in his spot

free points? just watch him play instead of making dumb generalized assumptions ......they guy literally is the catalyst on his line..... they look way worse without him.... like a lot worse but again you can't understand why hitting and taking hits matter....and pointless hit and whatever else you are saying

you said his play makes it hard to win..... caps are 7-1 since his return and he has 12 points in 8 games and you cOuld argue hes been the 2nd best player behind backstrom

small sample sizes that end in cup victories go a lot farther........ again agree to disagree but wilson is a really great player but again he doesn't create offense haha he just scores free points .... does ovi get free points also from the power play? or does him standing still count as working hard ..... omg I can't with you haha im done

Everyone settle!!! haha I put Tom Wilson on here to see what people thought and boy did it spark up a debate ! Look he may not be a top 20 winger but i put him on because he sure is in the conversation...look guys if he wasnt somewhat skilled he wouldnt be playing with 2 of the best players in the game. Sure he may not be as flashy as some other guys that could potentially take his spot in this top 20 but i think he makes a bigger impact scoring 45-50
points than say a Dadonov who could get 55-60....Hes an intimidating force that other players have to watch out for and you can discount his play in 2018 both last season cup run and small sample size this season.....sure he plays reckless sometimes but if he keeps up a pace anywhere close to what hes producing ao far this season theres no way he cant be on this list

cant ** discount lol


GO SABRES!!!!!!

Yes. This is true. And it doesn't help your argument. Wilson is better than DSP, Wilson is way worse than Lindholm or Dadonov. They score more with equal or worse talent on their lines. Lindholm scores with and is a more impactful player with Gaudreau and Monahan than Wilson does with Kuzy and Ovi. How do you make the correct line of argument in this scenario but draw the wrong conclusion from it?

Any player has short stretches of being good/productive. I watch as much hockey as you do and probably more, that's just a poor line of arguing.

Since the start of last season Dadonov has 88 points in 97 games. Wilson has 47 in 86. The games Wilson have missed should honestly still count since he put himself in that situation, but whatever. Even without it you can see it's not even close in terms of scoring.

Dadonov has a relative goals for % at 11.52 while Wilson has 4.68 - i.e. Dadonovs team score more and get scored on less when he's on the ice much more frequently than when Wilson is for his team.
Dadonov does this with a worse PDO (goalie save% + teammate shooting%) than Wilson, but they're still not close.
Dadonov has gotten his team 10 minutes more on the power play than pk, while Wilson has gotten his team 13 mins more of PK than he's drawn.

This shouldn't be a f***ing debate at all

bc youre the only idiot here arguing wilson vs dadonov or Lindholm .... im simply saying wilson is very good and deserves more respect that saying "hes not untalented"

I also think you are just trying to dumb down wilson value to him scoring less than dadonov... who is at best is a ppg player. which wilson is also a ppt player when he plays on the top line..... again hes only played top line minutes for 50-60 games..... 23 of those were playoffs games..... he average .75 in the playoffs...

and you said short sample size but dadnov has played less than 100 games since coming back to the nhl so thats okay but Wilsons short sample size isn't enough...... Wilsons last 60 gams > dadonov last 60

you are the only one debating wilson vs dad...... and wilson didn't move up to the top line till after the all star break......

Dadonov: Quality of Teammates: 32.09, Quality of Competition: 49.95
Wilson: Quality of Teammates: 31.41, Quality of Competition: 49.96

It hardly gets any closer