SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Toronto Maple Leafs

Remember the days when it didnt cost your first born to acquire a defenceman

Dec. 6, 2018 at 1:56 p.m.
#1
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
With the apparent going rate for an upgrade on Defence having a absolutely massive price tag on it, there is almost no point to make a trade.

The pieces I would be willing to move on from are Brown, Zaitsev, a prospect not named Liljegren or Sandin and a 1st round pick. What could that get the Leafs as far as a defensive upgrade is concerned?
Dec. 6, 2018 at 1:57 p.m.
#2
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2017
Posts: 7,514
Likes: 5,735
Wait, so you're saying it takes quality pieces to get another quality piece? Groundbreaking.
Eli, IAMAHOCKEYPLAYER69, Hedman77 and 3 others liked this.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:00 p.m.
#3
Who adds what?
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2017
Posts: 13,677
Likes: 2,703
Zaitsev is very good, defensively. What is it you're hoping to improve?

Is this the same old quest for a right shot power play specialis? I'm guessing Zaitsev would fetch you Miller out of Vegas right now, while Miller is third among Vegas' defensemen in points. Vegas would probably value Zaitsev's extra hits and blocks, and Toronto has seen the points Miller can put up when the's the guy on the power play, as he was for the first half of last year.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:00 p.m.
#4
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: wojme
Wait, so you're saying it takes quality pieces to get another quality piece? Groundbreaking.


Way to read the description there bud. How about you circle back and see what is there and save the sarcasm until its called for.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:01 p.m.
#5
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2018
Posts: 335
Likes: 88
Quoting: wojme
Wait, so you're saying it takes quality pieces to get another quality piece? Groundbreaking.


yet they say this but they continue to only offer their trash and try to act like it is actually worth a good top defenseman lol
wojme and Hedman77 liked this.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:01 p.m.
#6
Kyle from Chicago
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2018
Posts: 9,776
Likes: 5,734
“I don’t want to give up any top prospects or picks, but I want to upgrade my defense”

Yeah so does everyone else.

The point is you can’t get a meaningful upgrade on defense without a good assets such as a first, or Sandin going back.
wojme, Hedman77 and MasterMatt23 liked this.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:02 p.m.
#7
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Eli
Zaitsev is very good, defensively. What is it you're hoping to improve?

Is this the same old quest for a right shot power play specialis? I'm guessing Zaitsev would fetch you Miller out of Vegas right now, while Miller is third among Vegas' defensemen in points. Vegas would probably value Zaitsev's extra hits and blocks, and Toronto has seen the points Miller can put up when the's the guy on the power play, as he was for the first half of last year.


I'm actually rather high on Zaitsev as well. I don't think his contract is bad, it could be better but its fine. I am more saying he is available because I think the Leafs could find greater value from someone else. The Leafs will be up against the cap next season and in a perfect world we can find an upgrade this season over Hainsey. My question is, if Brown, a 1st and some prospect not name Liljegren or Sandin are on the table, what could the leafs get for that?
Eli liked this.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:03 p.m.
#8
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 317
Kapanen has a good value, but alone, he doesn't give you a #2-3 def. Same think with Kadri. But if you trade twice together, you should get a solid #2 def!!
Eli liked this.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:05 p.m.
#9
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: IAMAHOCKEYPLAYER69
yet they say this but they continue to only offer their trash and try to act like it is actually worth a good top defenseman lol


Sure you can just go down the road of most of the trolls on here and just spout angry non sense but I did provide a list of assets I'd be willing to move and ask what kind of return one could expect. A normal person would read that, think about it and provide a thought out response. Or instead you can be a huge contributor and just say all Leaf fans are ridiculous homers. Can you please point to where I offered garbage and expect great players back? Not sure if you read the title but I am saying the going rate for defenceman is way too high for my tastes which is why I am looking for feed back on what a smaller package could bring back.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:08 p.m.
#10
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2018
Posts: 335
Likes: 88
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Sure you can just go down the road of most of the trolls on here and just spout angry non sense but I did provide a list of assets I'd be willing to move and ask what kind of return one could expect. A normal person would read that, think about it and provide a thought out response. Or instead you can be a huge contributor and just say all Leaf fans are ridiculous homers. Can you please point to where I offered garbage and expect great players back? Not sure if you read the title but I am saying the going rate for defenceman is way too high for my tastes which is why I am looking for feed back on what a smaller package could bring back.


i just think you need to give up a piece like Nylander if you want the top dman you so desperately need
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:08 p.m.
#11
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Stan_Bowman
“I don’t want to give up any top prospects or picks, but I want to upgrade my defense”

Yeah so does everyone else.

The point is you can’t get a meaningful upgrade on defense without a good assets such as a first, or Sandin going back.


What is a meaningful upgrade over Hainsey though? That's the only glaring issue on the blue line. Dermott and Ozhiganov continue to get better, Gardiner is what he is, Zaitsev has been rock solid in his own zone and Rielly is a front runner for the Norris. So really the Leafs need someone who can play responsible minutes and give Rielly a better safety net than Hainsey does, (He is an absolute anchor that hurts Rielly's game). I have no interest in a marquee player, they will cost way more than they are worth in the long run. Which is why I am looking for a smaller move.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:10 p.m.
#12
Mac Jameson is a god
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2017
Posts: 87
Likes: 18
At this point, as others have mentioned, you can't upgrade the Defense without downgrading the Forwards.
The Leafs cap situation is also a problem unless you're looking for a rental.
Look at it this way, nobody wants to give up a good RHD, and if they do, the Leafs probably don't want that player for the same reason their team is willing to move them (defensive issues, cap hit, etc.)
I'd rather see the Leafs go the Dermott route and wait for one of our prospects to establish themselves (Lil'green).
If they do make a trade for an RHD, it's probably for Playoff Depth.
blowing_the_zone liked this.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:11 p.m.
#13
Log off the internet
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 7,830
Likes: 3,865
Quoting: wojme
Wait, so you're saying it takes quality pieces to get another quality piece? Groundbreaking.


Don’t tell Leafs fans that or they’ll call you a troll
wojme, yanp007, IAMAHOCKEYPLAYER69 and 1 other person liked this.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:11 p.m.
#14
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 9,851
Likes: 6,441
Im sure you could get Weber or someone older for cheaper but you want a young 25 year old d man who’s right handed and plays top pair.....
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:12 p.m.
#15
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: IAMAHOCKEYPLAYER69
i just think you need to give up a piece like Nylander if you want the top dman you so desperately need


The Leafs have a top D man in Rielly. They don't desperately need one. They need an upgrade over Hainsey, someone who can actually keep up with the speed of the game. I have no thirst for guys like Parayko, Pietrangelo or Brett Pesce. Those guys will cost WAYYYYY more than they are worth and I refuse to overpay when a more cost effective route could be taken. I'd honestly rather trade for Connor Carrick than give up a kings ransom for a "2 or 3" defenceman (which is a ridiculously vague classification) So what could the Leafs acquire at the deadline who would be an upgrade over Hainsey?
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:12 p.m.
#16
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2017
Posts: 7,514
Likes: 5,735
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Way to read the description there bud. How about you circle back and see what is there and save the sarcasm until its called for.


Oh I figured getting an upgrade on defense without any top prospects was sarcastic. With brown and zaitsev you can get aging dmen and that's about it.
Hedman77 liked this.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:15 p.m.
#17
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: yanp007
Kapanen has a good value, but alone, he doesn't give you a #2-3 def. Same think with Kadri. But if you trade twice together, you should get a solid #2 def!!


All of the people on here are the same, "If you want to upgrade your d and acquire a top flight defenceman its going to cost a major forward." WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT GETTING A MAJOR PLAYER? I've said it up and down on here, I want an upgrade over Hainsey. That is all, what could the Leafs get with the list of assets I have mentioned above. It won't be one of the common higher end players people trade to the Leafs daily on here. Those deals are short sighted and always have the leafs coming out as losers. I want a fair deal based on the assets listed above.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:15 p.m.
#18
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: wojme
Oh I figured getting an upgrade on defense without any top prospects was sarcastic. With brown and zaitsev you can get aging dmen and that's about it.


Okay, any right handed ones that would be an upgrade over Hainsey and can play meaningful minutes for the next season tops before making way for Liljegren and Sandin?
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:16 p.m.
#19
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Hedman77
Don’t tell Leafs fans that or they’ll call you a troll


You have to pay another pound for 5 more minutes of arguing. Your time is already up.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:16 p.m.
#20
Who adds what?
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2017
Posts: 13,677
Likes: 2,703
If you just want a guy with good plus minus, rain or shine.... Brown and Marincin should get you Michal Kempny. He's +12 this year, playing 19 minutes a night, with two goals and six points. Boring, I know. But last year he was +10 on the Blackhawks, and Duncan Keith was -29. Kempny played tougher zone starts than Keith. But between Siegenthaler, Djoos, and Marincin, I think the Caps could replace his minutes, and adding Brown's scoring touch would be neat.*


*plus, a lot of people don't know this, but he and Burakovsky were teammates in juniors!
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:17 p.m.
#21
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2017
Posts: 7,514
Likes: 5,735
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Okay, any right handed ones that would be an upgrade over Hainsey and can play meaningful minutes for the next season tops before making way for Liljegren and Sandin?


brent seabrook
IAMAHOCKEYPLAYER69 and Eli liked this.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:17 p.m.
#22
Mac Jameson is a god
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2017
Posts: 87
Likes: 18
Quoting: LoganOllivier
The Leafs have a top D man in Rielly. They don't desperately need one. They need an upgrade over Hainsey, someone who can actually keep up with the speed of the game. I have no thirst for guys like Parayko, Pietrangelo or Brett Pesce. Those guys will cost WAYYYYY more than they are worth and I refuse to overpay when a more cost effective route could be taken. I'd honestly rather trade for Connor Carrick than give up a kings ransom for a "2 or 3" defenceman (which is a ridiculously vague classification) So what could the Leafs acquire at the deadline who would be an upgrade over Hainsey?


Why not just play Dermott with Reilly, and Hainsey with Oz?
blowing_the_zone liked this.
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:20 p.m.
#23
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: S1LV3R
At this point, as others have mentioned, you can't upgrade the Defense without downgrading the Forwards.
The Leafs cap situation is also a problem unless you're looking for a rental.
Look at it this way, nobody wants to give up a good RHD, and if they do, the Leafs probably don't want that player for the same reason their team is willing to move them (defensive issues, cap hit, etc.)
I'd rather see the Leafs go the Dermott route and wait for one of our prospects to establish themselves (Lil'green).
If they do make a trade for an RHD, it's probably for Playoff Depth.


Let's try to use our imaginations here and maybe break from the same train of thought that has been used time and time again. I do not want a marquee player, they all will cost wayyyyyyy tooo much in assets that the trade will be a loss. I don't like losing trades, so I am tempering my expectations and looking for a cost effective upgrade over Hainsey. It won't be a higher end player. More like a 2nd pair guy who can skate well enough to not hold Reilly back. Everyone on here hears people say the Leafs could use some defensive help and they immediately want a block buster. Those trades aren't going to work out well for TO. Defenceman cost too much right now and it would be a trade similar to the Hall for Larrson trade (I don't care to hear anything about Hall is way better than Nylander, that isn't the point).
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:20 p.m.
#24
Log off the internet
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 7,830
Likes: 3,865
Quoting: LoganOllivier
You have to pay another pound for 5 more minutes of arguing. Your time is already up.


I’m not arguing, I’m just doing your work for you: by calling everyone who disagrees a troll
Dec. 6, 2018 at 2:24 p.m.
#25
Mac Jameson is a god
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2017
Posts: 87
Likes: 18
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Let's try to use our imaginations here and maybe break from the same train of thought that has been used time and time again. I do not want a marquee player, they all will cost wayyyyyyy tooo much in assets that the trade will be a loss. I don't like losing trades, so I am tempering my expectations and looking for a cost effective upgrade over Hainsey. It won't be a higher end player. More like a 2nd pair guy who can skate well enough to not hold Reilly back. Everyone on here hears people say the Leafs could use some defensive help and they immediately want a block buster. Those trades aren't going to work out well for TO. Defenceman cost too much right now and it would be a trade similar to the Hall for Larrson trade (I don't care to hear anything about Hall is way better than Nylander, that isn't the point).


Let's all just take a breather...

The point I was trying to make is that I don't think we can upgrade over what we already have.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll