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Buffalo giveth Buffalo taketh

Created by: MelonVK
Team: 2018-19 Buffalo Sabres
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 11, 2018
Published: Dec. 11, 2018
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
I'm going to get chased down with pitchforks and torches, but the likelihood of Mittelstadt turning into anything even close to the level of Tarasenko is soooo low. He's been playing some of the softest minutes focused around the power play and hardly managed to get a primary point. I'd simply use him to get an impact player. Some regression is due to hit Skinner, Tarasenko is a clear upgrade. Might as well use the two extra firsts to get something going while Dahlin etc is on the cheap and the goalie situation seems to work out.

About 13m in cap space next year to sing Lehkonen, Ullmark, ERod and McCabe, the year after that Bogosian is off the books along with the 2m retain on Scandella.

Line wise I figured ERod could ride shotgun while the second line is solid on its own. The third can get cushioned minutes as the fourth line consists of defensively dependent players.
Trades
1.
BUF
  1. Nugent-Hopkins, Ryan
  2. 2019 2nd round pick (EDM)
EDM
  1. Skinner, Jeff
  2. 2019 6th round pick (BUF)
2.
BUF
  1. Tarasenko, Vladimir
  2. 2019 2nd round pick (STL)
STL
  1. Mittelstadt, Casey
  2. 2019 1st round pick (SJS)
  3. 2019 1st round pick (STL)
3.
BUF
  1. 2019 3rd round pick (BOS)
4.
BUF
  1. 2019 4th round pick (NYI)
5.
BUF
  1. 2019 3rd round pick (FLA)
  2. 2020 7th round pick (NSH)
6.
MTL
  1. Scandella, Marco ($2,000,000 retained)
  2. 2019 3rd round pick (BUF)
  3. 2020 7th round pick (BUF)
Retained Salary Transactions
Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2018
2019
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the STL
Logo of the BOS
Logo of the FLA
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the NYI
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the BUF
2020
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the NSH
2021
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the STL
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$79,500,000$71,151,190$0$3,852,500$8,348,810
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$650,000$650,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$10,000,000$10,000,000
C
UFA - 8
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$3,750,000$3,750,000
RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$839,166$839,166
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$6,000,000$6,000,000
LW, C
UFA - 3
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$3,650,000$3,650,000
RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$3,000,000$3,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$6,000,000$6,000,000
RW
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$3,850,000$3,850,000
C, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$1,475,000$1,475,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,850,000$3M)
LD/RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$5,142,857$5,142,857
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$2,750,000$2,750,000
G
UFA - 3
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$1,600,000$1,600,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$5,400,000$5,400,000
RD
UFA - 4
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$750,000$750,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$812,500$812,500
RD
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$717,500$717,500 (Performance Bonus$182,500$182K)
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$1,050,000$1,050,000
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$697,500$697,500 (Performance Bonus$182,500$182K)
LD
UFA - 2

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Dec. 11, 2018 at 6:18 p.m.
#1
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That trade for tarasenko is a huge laughable no.
Dec. 11, 2018 at 6:24 p.m.
#2
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Quoting: wojme
That trade for tarasenko is a huge laughable no.


Save a picture of this and revisit in two years. I'm basically out of words for Mittelstadt truthers
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Dec. 11, 2018 at 6:25 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: MelonVK
Save a picture of this and revisit in two years. I'm basically out of words for Mittelstadt truthers


He's 19.... He'll be fine.
Dec. 11, 2018 at 6:26 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: wojme
He's 19.... He'll be fine.


Fine? Sure. Tarasenko is great though
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Dec. 11, 2018 at 6:30 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: MelonVK
Fine? Sure. Tarasenko is great though


He's almost 27 and we'll most likely be paying Skinner a similar contract. We can also keep the 2 firsts, one of which could end up being top 5 next year. They aren't getting our future 2c and two good draft picks. Yes tarasenko is good, but not worth it for the sabres.
Dec. 11, 2018 at 6:34 p.m.
#6
Who adds what?
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Quoting: wojme
That trade for tarasenko is a huge laughable no.


They're close to last place. There might be a lockout. Their 2019 pick is top ten protected. What about 2020? Supposed to be a deeper draft. If there is a lockout next year, that's an offer of three years of Tarasenko when they have a shot at the playoffs, for a possible top ten pick, a late 1st, and a 21 year old Mittelstadt in the fall of 2020. Seems reasonable.
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Dec. 11, 2018 at 6:37 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: wojme
He's almost 27 and we'll most likely be paying Skinner a similar contract. We can also keep the 2 firsts, one of which could end up being top 5 next year. They aren't getting our future 2c and two good draft picks. Yes tarasenko is good, but not worth it for the sabres.


The Blues one is top 10 protected, so say it's a 2020 pick - that's one year together with Dahlin on the cheap, for MAYBE getting a guy that could play in the league right away, but is more likely to take another 1-2 seasons. Then you also have to consider to wait for him, cause he's "only 19". In this scenario, at least, Skinner solves your 2c problems and Tarasenko is a 1st line wing upgrade. They're both on reasonable contracts and under control while Dahlin is being paid peanuts.

The expected value of Mittelstadt at this point isn't anywhere near Tarasenko. The expected value of a first rounder is probably less than Mittelstadt. Potential is exciting and great, but it rarely pans out, so not only do you get the sure thing, but you get it while your other players are good and/or under cost control.
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Dec. 11, 2018 at 6:39 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: MelonVK
Fine? Sure. Tarasenko is great though


Throw Brendan Guhle into the offer for Tarasenko and I think that you would have a deal.
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Dec. 11, 2018 at 9:42 p.m.
#9
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as much as i love this deal as it would make us a serious contender this season i dont think it makes much sense and kinda goes against everything boterill has built...trading a top 19 year old promising top 10 pick for a winger who will be like 32 by the time dahlin and jack are in their prime and serious cup contenders...let the kids grow and dont rush things
Dec. 12, 2018 at 7:25 a.m.
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Quoting: sabres1108
as much as i love this deal as it would make us a serious contender this season i dont think it makes much sense and kinda goes against everything boterill has built...trading a top 19 year old promising top 10 pick for a winger who will be like 32 by the time dahlin and jack are in their prime and serious cup contenders...let the kids grow and dont rush things


Unpopular opinion: Eichel is in his prime, he'll be exiting it in 5 years.

I think this is down to team building ideology though, I personally still think teams are too invested in their own prospects and young players. I'd give up a high scoring Jake DeBrusk if it meant getting Tarasenko. I just think Buffalo can win as early as this year, and in my mind at least you're doing yourself a disservice by shortening your window!
Dec. 12, 2018 at 7:57 a.m.
#11
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Quoting: MelonVK
Unpopular opinion: Eichel is in his prime, he'll be exiting it in 5 years.

I think this is down to team building ideology though, I personally still think teams are too invested in their own prospects and young players. I'd give up a high scoring Jake DeBrusk if it meant getting Tarasenko. I just think Buffalo can win as early as this year, and in my mind at least you're doing yourself a disservice by shortening your window!


only reason i could see agreeing with this is because of Huttons age. though hes played far less career minutes over his career than goalies of similar age hes bound to decline in the next few years. ofher than that im not trading a dynamic future #2center for a pretty one dimensional winger that will be past his prime in 3 years. Yeah Tarasenko is a great player but I beleive Botterill has a vision of this team having sustainable success for many years. just because the team has surprised everyone with such a quick turnaround from last year i dont see him abandoning his vision of the future for a chance at a playoff run while our D still needs a couple peices( or wait for Dahlin, Pilut, Borgen Samuelsson to develop further) and also while there are a few powerhouses like tampa, nashville, toronto that we have very little chance at beating in a 7 game series tarasenko or no tarasenko. to add to that, i dont see boston giving up a 3rd rounder for pominville which would give us like 25 mil tied up in RW’s. Just dont see it happening, Tarasenko is a shooter who wants the puck, while Eichel does have a lot of shots so
far this season, theres a general consensus he still should be shooting a bit more. Its going to require patience but Buffalos time will come as one of the powerhouses of the league even if the roster remains close to the same it is now just need for the “Dahlin Effect” to go into full effect of ya know what I mean.
Dec. 12, 2018 at 8:26 a.m.
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Edited Dec. 12, 2018 at 8:32 a.m.
Quoting: sabres1108
only reason i could see agreeing with this is because of Huttons age. though hes played far less career minutes over his career than goalies of similar age hes bound to decline in the next few years. ofher than that im not trading a dynamic future #2center for a pretty one dimensional winger that will be past his prime in 3 years. Yeah Tarasenko is a great player but I beleive Botterill has a vision of this team having sustainable success for many years. just because the team has surprised everyone with such a quick turnaround from last year i dont see him abandoning his vision of the future for a chance at a playoff run while our D still needs a couple peices( or wait for Dahlin, Pilut, Borgen Samuelsson to develop further) and also while there are a few powerhouses like tampa, nashville, toronto that we have very little chance at beating in a 7 game series tarasenko or no tarasenko. to add to that, i dont see boston giving up a 3rd rounder for pominville which would give us like 25 mil tied up in RW’s. Just dont see it happening, Tarasenko is a shooter who wants the puck, while Eichel does have a lot of shots so
far this season, theres a general consensus he still should be shooting a bit more. Its going to require patience but Buffalos time will come as one of the powerhouses of the league even if the roster remains close to the same it is now just need for the “Dahlin Effect” to go into full effect of ya know what I mean.


Yeah but at the same time, in a couple more seasons Dahlin costs you what, 8 mil on the low? You can still get something for Pominville, it's only 1 season left regardless. You could also play Tara on the 2nd line in this scenario, or just swap the first and second line wingers alltogether.

Since 16/17 Tarasenko is 30th in points. Almost everyone above him has a line partner on that list as well (Marchand, Pasta - Bäckström/Kuzy, Ovi - Scheifele, Wheeler - Grioux, Voracek - MacK, Rantanen - Seguin, Benn etc. you get it). He has the third lowest power play production out of those 30 since Stl haven't managed to surround him with talent on the pp. He's a top 10 winger in this league, and I'd recommend anyone to give up a future, potential 2C++ for that.

Look at what the Hall trade did for NJ - they'd do that again even if it doesn't result in a Stanley Cup. Buffalo is a better team than this edition of the Devils, and I think any move in a positive direction is the right one.
But as I said, I can't force my team management ideology onto anyone, so take my arguments with a pinch of salt!
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Dec. 12, 2018 at 10:51 a.m.
#13
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Quoting: MelonVK
Fine? Sure. Tarasenko is great though


Quoting: Eli
They're close to last place. There might be a lockout. Their 2019 pick is top ten protected. What about 2020? Supposed to be a deeper draft. If there is a lockout next year, that's an offer of three years of Tarasenko when they have a shot at the playoffs, for a possible top ten pick, a late 1st, and a 21 year old Mittelstadt in the fall of 2020. Seems reasonable.


Five stars, great idea, I wish I had thought of this idea.
When I saw this proposal I thought it was a great move. Something that is completely over looked is the 2nd round coming back to Buffalo from STL, is not protected so without Tarasenko, it could easily be 32 to 35 while the SJS 1st could easily be 25 to 31, so it could be a drop of as little as one spot or up to 10 or 15 still not much. Let's put the two trades together BUF
Nugent-Hopkins, Ryan + Tarasenko, Vladimir + 2019 2nd round pick (EDM) + 2019 2nd round pick (STL) for Skinner, Jeff + Mittelstadt, Casey + 2019 6th round pick (BUF) + 2019 1st round pick (SJS) + 2019 1st round pick (STL)
So Buffalo is giving up a great UFA scoring winger for a (signed for an additional 4 years) great scoring winger. Second they are giving up a prospect center (who I think has a big upgrade) for a good 2nd line center. To do this they give up 2 first round picks and get 2 2nd round picks back. IMO a deal. BTW what if Betterall could sign Skinner in July of 2019, how good would this trade look then? Could you imagine a top line of Skinner, Eichel and Reinhart and a second line of Tarasenko, Hopkins and Okposo? OMG, really what team has more (well maybe Tampa, Boston, SJS, Wash, Col, WIN). Just thinking about that top six reminds me of the French connection and 2006-07.
MelonVK and Eli I value your opinions when I see your comments are in alignment with mine, I think I am on the right side of an idea. When they do not, I have to re-evaluate my thoughts.
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Dec. 12, 2018 at 11:07 a.m.
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Quoting: GMTD
Five stars, great idea, I wish I had thought of this idea.
When I saw this proposal I thought it was a great move. Something that is completely over looked is the 2nd round coming back to Buffalo from STL, is not protected so without Tarasenko, it could easily be 32 to 35 while the SJS 1st could easily be 25 to 31, so it could be a drop of as little as one spot or up to 10 or 15 still not much. Let's put the two trades together BUF
Nugent-Hopkins, Ryan + Tarasenko, Vladimir + 2019 2nd round pick (EDM) + 2019 2nd round pick (STL) for Skinner, Jeff + Mittelstadt, Casey + 2019 6th round pick (BUF) + 2019 1st round pick (SJS) + 2019 1st round pick (STL)
So Buffalo is giving up a great UFA scoring winger for a (signed for an additional 4 years) great scoring winger. Second they are giving up a prospect center (who I think has a big upgrade) for a good 2nd line center. To do this they give up 2 first round picks and get 2 2nd round picks back. IMO a deal. BTW what if Betterall could sign Skinner in July of 2019, how good would this trade look then? Could you imagine a top line of Skinner, Eichel and Reinhart and a second line of Tarasenko, Hopkins and Okposo? OMG, really what team has more (well maybe Tampa, Boston, SJS, Wash, Col, WIN). Just thinking about that top six reminds me of the French connection and 2006-07.
MelonVK and Eli I value your opinions when I see your comments are in alignment with mine, I think I am on the right side of an idea. When they do not, I have to re-evaluate my thoughts.


Edmonton might not do that without re-signing Skinner though, and it's all speculative for sure. I just thought Buffalo is a team as good as any to punce on Tarasenko if he's available.
Yeah I figure Stl would want their first back to speed up the re-tool, it's probably more about timing for them since they'll get a top-10 pick regardless. I'm glad you liked it, and I know most don't want to give up Mittelstadt in any deal, but it's a fun thought exercise to see how one could try to make it work!
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Dec. 12, 2018 at 11:16 a.m.
#15
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Quoting: MelonVK
Edmonton might not do that without re-signing Skinner though, and it's all speculative for sure. I just thought Buffalo is a team as good as any to punce on Tarasenko if he's available.
Yeah I figure Stl would want their first back to speed up the re-tool, it's probably more about timing for them since they'll get a top-10 pick regardless. I'm glad you liked it, and I know most don't want to give up Mittelstadt in any deal, but it's a fun thought exercise to see how one could try to make it work!


You know what is really amazing, when Sabre fans think of trading Skinner (who a UFA) they ask for the same return as you are proposing for a signed Tarasenko, but when the trade is reversed, it is way too much. This is a good idea and certainly something to consider.
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Dec. 12, 2018 at 11:49 a.m.
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Quoting: GMTD
You know what is really amazing, when Sabre fans think of trading Skinner (who a UFA) they ask for the same return as you are proposing for a signed Tarasenko, but when the trade is reversed, it is way too much. This is a good idea and certainly something to consider.


That's a very well put point and line of argument
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