Yea because 1 single playoff performance means he's better. Why don't we just say that Justin Williams is better than Mitch Marner because he had a 20+ point playoff run?

Yes because since Kuznetsov has more points and more cups, that must mean he's better. By your logic, Chris Kunitz is one of the greatest players of all time.

Kuzy is also top 10 which Barkov is and kuzy has better stats. But again no point is wasting my time. Kuzy has 80. + points and and 30 + in the playoffs.

Barkov is also known for his defense and is a -9 this season but that’s common for a top 2 way center

Haha no bc Kunitz doesn’t have the points part. Kuzy has points and a cup. Kunitz never lead his team in points for a cup. Or had 80 points haha please try to keep up.

Hey since coots has less points but plays defense better and doesn’t have a cup he’s better than Crosby.

Matthews and kuzy have similar stats. Hah idk why I’m talking to a pens fan about who’s better haha

Best 2 way center is a -9? Hard to argue that logic

Since when is +/- a useful stat?

Kuznetsov isn't top 10, and if he is, barely.

And points /= skill.

If we're going by your logic, Mikko Rantanen is better than Ovechkin

You must be a troll. There's no way you're this stupid

Right now yeah. Career not a chance. I’d take a 20 year old over a 33 year old. Haha

Name 10 centers that have had a better year than kuzy. He had 80 points and 30 in the playoffs. ?

Again you can’t. Kuzy and Barkov both fall into that 7-15 list depending on different stats or for instance you’re a pens fan and have trouble giving credit where it’s due

I honestly was too nice to say this about you.

I said kuzy has more points and a cup. The. You said Kunitz which covers the cup but not the high end points. Terrible comparison but again I don’t wanna argue. You seem ...... special and not worth my time.

Next time just read 2-3x before talking.

I was just calling him a cap dump to exaggerate my point. I don’t think he’s completely worthless but he’s not great.



I agree Barkov >>Kuzy but imo Bergeron is a little better than Barkov for now but not for long.

Are you saying points don’t = skill? That’s true to an extent but you have to be skilled to some level to score points haha and when comparing who’s better points is a good starting point right?

I agree his value is very low

10 centers better than Kuznetsov: McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Mackinnon, Bergeron, Barkov, Schiefele, Couterier, Matthews, Point, Tavares*, Backstrom*, Stamkos*, Seguin*,

Coots haha?

Okay and Barkov Seguin Tavares backstrom Matthews point and stamkos could all be argues to be worse than Kuzy

Outside

Mcdavid
Crosby
Malkin
Mackinnon

5-15 could be any of these players in any order

And you left out Eichel

Hard to argue with a guy tied to plus minus as a stat

Since they started keeping it.

It isn't the best stat, but that doesn't mean it's worthless.

A -11 after a third of a season is not good, but Barkov is still +22, career, at 23, so if the Caps' coaches are on board with watching some of his game tape, trying to understand what's working, what's not working, how to make things easier for him, and how to help him improve the things he can change about his game.... it could work.

It's a stat that rewards 5 players for a goal when at most, 3 contributed to it. Yea, definitely a good stat

I've already ended this discussion, when "beastmode" tried claiming all Bowey's advanced stats were bad. Since you both missed it, here it is again:



As far as what round pick he's worth, Pulock, Zadorov, Jones, Morrissey, and Mueller were 1st round picks. Bowey and Hagg were taken in the 2nd round, along with 8 other defensemen who each haven't played 20 NHL games this year. Butcher in the 5th round was a steal, but mostly to get a defenseman around as good as Bowey, five years later, you need a late first pick. By the top of the second, it's iffy. Does that mean anyone would trade a first pick for him? Nah. Teams that trade picks are looking for old guys with proven skills. Bowey's value would be to a rebuilding team, The Blues are one point out of last place, overall, and talking about possibly rebuilding. Will they target Bowey, to help them rebuild their defense? I don't know, but they could.

I bet you're a great teammate.

Eichel is nowhere near as good as the guys I mentioned so there's one of your points gone.

Barkov and Couterier are better than Kuznetsov, you can't argue it.

As much as I love Kuzy, Barkov and Couts are both better.

Not on offense.

Kuznetsov puts up points so much faster than either, it's not funny. Each has about 295 career points (within four--okay, so Kuznetsov's ahead. That's not the point). Couturier has played 9901 NHL minutes to get there. Barkov has played 7301. Kuznetsov is still at just 6233 minutes. He's a lot better at scoring points.

Kuznetsov and Couturier are each almost +60, career. Barkov is +22. Some of that is teammates, sure. Some of it is role. Some of it is that Kuznetsov is defensively underrated. I mean, he plays with Ovechkin, who has been at the top or the bottom of the league in plus/minus in different years, so I do think Kuznetsov has to skate hard to get pucks, before he can go out and play on offense.

The other two play tougher zone starts, and more minutes, which can be signs of who plays against the other team's best player, but it's not like any team doesn't put good competition out against Kuznetsov's line. He actually is the best player in many games. That's a little better than just playing against the best.

Kuznetsov has 3.22 p/60 this year. Barkov has 2.72. Couturier has 2.05. Justin Williams is at 2.06, good for 164th place in the NHL.

After Couturier's 2 year deal runs out and after Barkov's four year deal runs out, when they each make 10M per year, Kuznetsov's 7 year deal will be one of the better values on offense in the NHL, and it will go until he is 34, whereas Couts' next deal might just run until he is 36, at a much higher cap hit.

The knock on Kuznetsov is that he plays a lot with Ovechkin, but he actually keeps pace with Ovechkin, so I don't see the issue. Giroux is outscoring Couturier by over 1 p/60 for the second straight year. Huberdau's lead over Barkov is .9p/60. Ovechkin is momentarily ahead of Kuznetsov, but only by 0.05 p/60. Last year, Kuznetsov led the Caps in points/60, at 3.35, while Ovechkin only ended up at 3.16.

I think in order to be one of the top five centers in the league, one should probably be able to lead one's own team in scoring, for a season?

I do think there's value in how many minutes Barkov can eat. I also think the Caps have some tough decisions as they try to stay competitive while staying under the salary cap. Barkov could slightly improve their PK, and he might or might not help their defense at evens, but is a change of teams going to help Barkov's offense enough that he makes up for losing Kuznetsov?

If you're all in, and looking for goal scoring, would you consider Brett Connolly as the start of a Lindell trade? I know nobody rates him as a 6th overall pick anymore, but he's a steady 15 goals a year guy, at evens, showing this year he can step up on power plays, just 26, and inexpensive.

Nope. Lindell is as valuable for us as Orlov is to you guys. Would you trade Orlov for a 3rd line winger? Didn't think so.