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Spitballing feel free to Love Hate

Created by: jluqueSF
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 29, 2019
Published: Jan. 29, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
I like the Muzzin move, but i still think there is another chess piece to move - Nylander.

I like WN29, but lets be honest MM16 is better than him, KK24 will be signed for less $ / can PK / and the scoring drop off is not that much. CB28 @ $2.1M is a good #3RW / PK, and then you still have the likes of Bracco / Moore / Engvall that can play #4RW.

Unless there is a Trade Kadri deal out there (which i definitely don't want), and then have an untested WN29 playing a #3C (and even then he's overpaid for that) i believe the only option is to move WN29.

So who needs a top 6 F; preferably RW; but can also play C in a pitch, who has a RHD of similar age....

** I know the Marner/Matthews contracts will be a bone of contention, but if it makes you happy bump them up by a total of $2m, and trade McCann for a pick
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
3$925,000
3$863,333
3$925,000
3$863,333
3$925,000
2$925,000
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$742,500
1$700,000
1$737,500
1$715,000
1$1,025,000
1$700,000
2$2,925,000
8$9,625,000
1$1,200,000
4$9,875,000
2$800,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$725,000
Trades
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the SJS
2021
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2022
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
24$83,000,000$76,293,333$0$0$6,706,667
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$9,625,000$9,625,000
RW
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$9,875,000$9,875,000
C
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,925,000$2,925,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,200,000$1,200,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,500,000$4,500,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,100,000$2,100,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Florida Panthers
$1,250,000$1,250,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$725,000$725,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Florida Panthers
$1,200,000$1,200,000
RW, C
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Florida Panthers
$7,500,000$7,500,000
RD
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$863,333$863,333
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,025,000$1,025,000
RD
UFA
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$742,500$742,500
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$750,000$750,000
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$737,500$737,500
LD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1

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Jan. 29, 2019 at 2:50 p.m.
#1
Just Keep Swimming
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Do you know who Alex Steen is?
Do you know who he was drafted by?

That's why you don't trade Nylander
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Jan. 29, 2019 at 2:51 p.m.
#2
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I think Ekblad is overrated. I don't think he is as good as some people think. I'd take him on my team any day but having to pay a premium for him wouldn't be the smartest IMO. That's a lot of money for a guy that hasn't and may never live up to his contract. Possibly to no fault of his own (Concussion history).

That's just me though.
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Jan. 29, 2019 at 2:52 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: Random2152
Do you know who Alex Steen is?
Do you know who he was drafted by?

That's why you don't trade Nylander


Yeah, that's exactly why he is one of our best players in history.
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Jan. 29, 2019 at 2:55 p.m.
#4
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JLuque
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Quoting: Random2152
Do you know who Alex Steen is?
Do you know who he was drafted by?

That's why you don't trade Nylander


you are honestly referencing a deal from Nov. 2008?
Jan. 29, 2019 at 2:56 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: jluqueSF
you are honestly referencing a deal from Nov. 2008?


And how exactly is it not relevant?
Jan. 29, 2019 at 3:00 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: F50marco
I think Ekblad is overrated. I don't think he is as good as some people think. I'd take him on my team any day but having to pay a premium for him wouldn't be the smartest IMO. That's a lot of money for a guy that hasn't and may never live up to his contract. Possibly to no fault of his own (Concussion history).

That's just me though.


It is a high $$ price to pay, but i have to think that AE5 playing with Muzzin or Reilly is a step up from Yandle / Matheson (when he was a rookie). and the fact that he is just 22 is encouraging as most D (see morgan reilly) don't take off till 23/24/25.

also home town boy, get out from the Zaitsev $$. if you look at the premier RHD in the league they are all 7.5+M; but none of them are 23.

I honestly don't see another way to a) get that #1 RHD, while at the same time b) staying under the cap ; unless its trading nylander
Jan. 29, 2019 at 3:06 p.m.
#7
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JLuque
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Quoting: Random2152
And how exactly is it not relevant?


a)the game is slightly different than 11 years ago
b) they traded both Steen and CC for a middling RW
c) the management/scouting/training/development structure is profoundly better than in 2008
d) Lee Stempniak was not a #1 overall pick, did not get the OHL exception, was not 22 yr old 6'5" RHD and
e) Stempniak did outscore Steen the rest of the 2008-2009 year..... and
f) how the hell is this relevant today, in the purposed ACGM on the capfiendly website
Jan. 29, 2019 at 3:09 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: jluqueSF
a)the game is slightly different than 11 years ago
b) they traded both Steen and CC for a middling RW
c) the management/scouting/training/development structure is profoundly better than in 2008
d) Lee Stempniak was not a #1 overall pick, did not get the OHL exception, was not 22 yr old 6'5" RHD and
e) Stempniak did outscore Steen the rest of the 2008-2009 year..... and
f) how the hell is this relevant today, in the purposed ACGM on the capfiendly website


Steen has 4 points in 20 games before he was traded. He was in a massive shooting slump, was a 1st round pick and was traded for a guy in his prime who was red hot (aka very high value at the time).

So tell me exactly how that is not a William Nylander trade? Being a decade old is not an answer, and people thought the return was going to be good then too.
Jan. 29, 2019 at 3:10 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: Random2152
And how exactly is it not relevant?


Steen and Colaiacovo were dealt together for Stempniak.

The difference is that no one then, or now, ever confused Stempniak with being an impact player....other than a senile Cliff Fletcher who also signed Jeff Finger by accident.

Losing Steen was a terrible trade, but it did not alter the course of this franchise whatsoever.....not trading him a couple seasons earlier with Kaberle for Chris Pronger might have been the bigger mistake
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Jan. 29, 2019 at 3:13 p.m.
#10
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I would definitely entertain an Ekblad-Nylander based trade. Not sure Florida would.

I have 0 interest in trading away Nylander now or in the near future....but if you start tossing out names like Ekblad you've definitely got my attention.
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Jan. 29, 2019 at 3:15 p.m.
#11
Just Keep Swimming
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Quoting: Juice
Steen and Colaiacovo were dealt together for Stempniak.

The difference is that no one then, or now, ever confused Stempniak with being an impact player....other than a senile Cliff Fletcher who also signed Jeff Finger by accident.

Losing Steen was a terrible trade, but it did not alter the course of this franchise whatsoever.....not trading him a couple seasons earlier with Kaberle for Chris Pronger might have been the bigger mistake


Okay... So how does that in any way disprove my point?
Your argument is "the return", but all I see is a concussion prone RHD that doesn't look like he will live up to being 1st overall (not that he is a bad player). He isn't a player we need (gards, Muzzin and Rielly easily combine to surpass his value) so it's hard to call him a difference maker and by your own admission the original was a stupid trade. So how would this be any different?
Jan. 29, 2019 at 3:27 p.m.
#12
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Nope.
Jan. 29, 2019 at 3:27 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: Random2152
Okay... So how does that in any way disprove my point?
Your argument is "the return", but all I see is a concussion prone RHD that doesn't look like he will live up to being 1st overall (not that he is a bad player). He isn't a player we need (gards, Muzzin and Rielly easily combine to surpass his value) so it's hard to call him a difference maker and by your own admission the original was a stupid trade. So how would this be any different?


It's subjective...but IMO Ekbald is still very much a #1D. He's had a concussion problem, yes. So has Crosby....Matthews too.. I think the research coming out on head injuries has at least improved to the point where guys are taking the appropriate time to recoup before getting back on the ice.

And I think it' a fair argument to say that the Leafs are deepest at RW and thinnest at RHD. So, IMO, we need a RHD more than we need a RW.

It's just as fair an argument to say that all Nylander is is an overpaid RW that doesn't try and who's only real production has come as a result of playing beside Auston Matthews. Do I believe that? No...but that's not any different from your comment that Ekblad is a concussion prone RHD that will never live up to being the 1st overall pick. It's subjective, not fact.

So...do the leafs needs a #1 RHD...I believe so
Is Ekblad a #1 RHD? I believe so
Is Ekblad worth more than Nylander? I believe so

It doesn't make me right...but it's what, at this point in time with the information available to me, I believe. So I would do a trade like this.

For me...comparing Ekblad and Stemniak is not a realistic comparison. A 5th round pick winger who's best season was 52pts vs a 1st overall #1 defenceman?

Again...in this hypothetical scenario...I compare not trading Nylander for Ekblad similar to not willing to give up Steen for Pronger.

It's cool if you don't like Ekblad...if you don't then your point makes sense that you wouldn't give up quality winger for him. But for someone that likes him as a #1 RHD...then the swap has merit, IMO
Jan. 29, 2019 at 3:30 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: Juice
It's subjective...but IMO Ekbald is still very much a #1D. He's had a concussion problem, yes. So has Crosby....Matthews too.. I think the research coming out on head injuries has at least improved to the point where guys are taking the appropriate time to recoup before getting back on the ice.

And I think it' a fair argument to say that the Leafs are deepest at RW and thinnest at RHD. So, IMO, we need a RHD more than we need a RW.

It's just as fair an argument to say that all Nylander is is an overpaid RW that doesn't try and who's only real production has come as a result of playing beside Auston Matthews. Do I believe that? No...but that's not any different from your comment that Ekblad is a concussion prone RHD that will never live up to being the 1st overall pick. It's subjective, not fact.

So...do the leafs needs a #1 RHD...I believe so
Is Ekblad a #1 RHD? I believe so
Is Ekblad worth more than Nylander? I believe so

It doesn't make me right...but it's what, at this point in time with the information available to me, I believe. So I would do a trade like this.

For me...comparing Ekblad and Stemniak is not a realistic comparison. A 5th round pick winger who's best season was 52pts vs a 1st overall #1 defenceman?

Again...in this hypothetical scenario...I compare not trading Nylander for Ekblad similar to not willing to give up Steen for Pronger.

It's cool if you don't like Ekblad...if you don't then your point makes sense that you wouldn't give up quality winger for him. But for someone that likes him as a #1 RHD...then the swap has merit, IMO


I like ekblad, but he is not the kind of player the leafs need. Muzzin is a 2 year stop gap until Sandin and Liljegren are ready, and until then we don't need another top end talent on D, maybe a 2RD upgrade but again, not an Ekblad.
Basically it doesn't make sense to make the trade, also why trade willy when he is at his lowest point? That's why I referred to the Steen trade. The whole trade just doesn't make sense for anyone involved
Jan. 29, 2019 at 3:42 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: Random2152
I like ekblad, but he is not the kind of player the leafs need. Muzzin is a 2 year stop gap until Sandin and Liljegren are ready, and until then we don't need another top end talent on D, maybe a 2RD upgrade but again, not an Ekblad.
Basically it doesn't make sense to make the trade, also why trade willy when he is at his lowest point? That's why I referred to the Steen trade. The whole trade just doesn't make sense for anyone involved


Because it's a hockey trade. Is it not fair to say Ekblad's value is at its lowest too? If both players are playing at top form, Ekblad is the vastly more valuable asset, IMO. This isn't trading Nylander for Radko Gudas...we're looking at a legit #1 RW'er for a legit #1 RHD. No one is being over or undervalued there.

Trading a promising winger in Steen for a hack winger in Stempniak was, and will forever, be stupid. But I can't accept a Stemniak-Ekblad comparison...to me those players are not in the same stratosphere.

For me this isn't giving up on Nylander and trading him below par....which is what you think because you don't think Ekblad is what the leafs need. It's a difference of opinion.

Also...I don't agree with the comment "we don't need another top end talent on D"....there might be 2 or 3 teams in the entire league that can get away with that comment...the leafs are certainly not one of them.
Jan. 29, 2019 at 3:43 p.m.
#16
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JLuque
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Quoting: Random2152
I like ekblad, but he is not the kind of player the leafs need. Muzzin is a 2 year stop gap until Sandin and Liljegren are ready, and until then we don't need another top end talent on D, maybe a 2RD upgrade but again, not an Ekblad.
Basically it doesn't make sense to make the trade, also why trade willy when he is at his lowest point? That's why I referred to the Steen trade. The whole trade just doesn't make sense for anyone involved


Glad that i have spurred such a ferocious debate....

"Muzzin the 2 yr stop gap" a) i hope not, i could see a re-signing for another 4 years, but then b) in 2 years (if the young guns are kept together), how will Reilly +Muzzin?+ Rosen (yr 3 in NHL); age 20 Sandin, age 21 Liljgren, age 24 Dermott, age 21 Rasanen/other be a defence that is READY to be full time and impactful D-men. Keep in mind thats also Reilly's last year signed too.

also i could have stated the Deal is in the off season, so WN29 does have another 5 months to re-coup his stride
 
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