SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

Deadline with philly

Created by: LeafsFan123
Team: 2018-19 Montreal Canadiens
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 31, 2019
Published: Jan. 31, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Hagg is an young LD who can play big minutes and help stabalize the D corps
Trades
1.
PHI
  1. Reilly, Mike
  2. 2019 2nd round pick (CBJ)
2.
MTL
  1. 2019 3rd round pick (NSH)
3.
MTL
  1. 2020 3rd round pick (EDM)
Buyouts
Retained Salary Transactions
Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2018
2019
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the NSH
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CHI
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the WPG
2020
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the WPG
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
2021
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
20$79,500,000$65,786,309$0$2,682,500$13,713,691
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,150,000$3,150,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,900,000$3,900,000
C, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,800,000$4,800,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,083,333$3,083,333
C
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,750,000$3,750,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$839,166$839,166
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
C
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,850,000$1,850,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,166,667$1,166,667
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$675,000$675,000
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$950,000$950,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$748,333$748,333 (Performance Bonus$182,500$182K)
LD/RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$7,857,143$7,857,143
RD
UFA - 8
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$10,500,000$10,500,000
G
NMC
UFA - 8
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$1,150,000$1,150,000
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$950,000$950,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$900,000$900,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,100,000$1,100,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Jan. 31, 2019 at 10:05 a.m.
#1
Avatar of the user
Joined: Aug. 2018
Posts: 6,487
Likes: 2,295
25 yr old borderline NHL defenseman and a 2nd for Hagg, Philly'd probably just hang on to Hagg for that.

Hagg is probably worth a 2nd and 3rd or even a low first at this point, but philly has a lot of youth and prospects at position, so cant see where Reilly would fit in.
Jan. 31, 2019 at 10:09 a.m.
#2
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2019
Posts: 6,103
Likes: 2,241
Montreal rejects the first trade. I don't see Hagg as an upgrade over Mete or Benn. Maybe Benn, but not worth a 2nd in the difference. Philadelphia wouldn't trade him for that cheap anyways
Hammerwise liked this.
Jan. 31, 2019 at 10:52 a.m.
#3
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 297
Likes: 43
Quoting: Hammerwise
25 yr old borderline NHL defenseman and a 2nd for Hagg, Philly'd probably just hang on to Hagg for that.

Hagg is probably worth a 2nd and 3rd or even a low first at this point, but philly has a lot of youth and prospects at position, so cant see where Reilly would fit in.


Hagg is overrated
Jan. 31, 2019 at 11:00 a.m.
#4
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 892
Likes: 301
Quoting: Flyers2000
Hagg is overrated


Really? He’s only outplayed Provorov and Ghostisbehere defensively this year. He’s not a top line guy, but a middle pairing young D like that is worth a lot more than you’d think. He’s a younger, more offensive Larsson. Not a first, but he’d get an A- prospect and a mid to late pick.
Hammerwise liked this.
Jan. 31, 2019 at 5:45 p.m.
#5
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 297
Likes: 43
Quoting: NucksFanForLife
Really? He’s only outplayed Provorov and Ghostisbehere defensively this year. He’s not a top line guy, but a middle pairing young D like that is worth a lot more than you’d think. He’s a younger, more offensive Larsson. Not a first, but he’d get an A- prospect and a mid to late pick.


This comment made me laugh. First off he hasn’t been better than Provorov, and even if he was, that wouldn’t be saying much cause Provorov has been downright abysmal this season. He actually hasn’t even been better than Ghost which is sad considering Ghost’s an offensive d-man. What makes him good defensively according to you? Is it his +/-? Cause that’s known to be the worst stat in hockey. Is it his hits and blocks because that would just make you ignorant. More hits and blocks doesn’t equal better defense it equals more defensive zone time because Hagg can’t make a breakout pass to save his life. His stats don’t look to bad, but if you look at analytics, the only reason they look even a tiny bit good is because he has the best puck luck on the team (that’s PDO if you actually do know something about analytics). Which d-man gets outplayed the most (CF%)? Hagg. Which d-man allows the most shot attempts (CA/60)? Hagg. Which d-man has the highest rate of scoring chances allowed (SCA/60)? Hagg. Which d-man allows the most high danger scoring chances (HDCF/60)? Hagg. There are 31 teams in the NHL. Each play 6 d-men. That’s 186 d-men. Plus whatever 7th D and AHL fill-ins they’ve played. Hagg ranks 181st. He’s a garbage player who’s gotten extremely lucky with his goal based results this season. If there is any team that completely ignores analytics and is stupid enough to give the offer you proposed, I’ll buy Hagg’s plane ticket myself
Jan. 31, 2019 at 10:50 p.m.
#6
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 892
Likes: 301
Quoting: Flyers2000
This comment made me laugh. First off he hasn’t been better than Provorov, and even if he was, that wouldn’t be saying much cause Provorov has been downright abysmal this season. He actually hasn’t even been better than Ghost which is sad considering Ghost’s an offensive d-man. What makes him good defensively according to you? Is it his +/-? Cause that’s known to be the worst stat in hockey. Is it his hits and blocks because that would just make you ignorant. More hits and blocks doesn’t equal better defense it equals more defensive zone time because Hagg can’t make a breakout pass to save his life. His stats don’t look to bad, but if you look at analytics, the only reason they look even a tiny bit good is because he has the best puck luck on the team (that’s PDO if you actually do know something about analytics). Which d-man gets outplayed the most (CF%)? Hagg. Which d-man allows the most shot attempts (CA/60)? Hagg. Which d-man has the highest rate of scoring chances allowed (SCA/60)? Hagg. Which d-man allows the most high danger scoring chances (HDCF/60)? Hagg. There are 31 teams in the NHL. Each play 6 d-men. That’s 186 d-men. Plus whatever 7th D and AHL fill-ins they’ve played. Hagg ranks 181st. He’s a garbage player who’s gotten extremely lucky with his goal based results this season. If there is any team that completely ignores analytics and is stupid enough to give the offer you proposed, I’ll buy Hagg’s plane ticket myself


I’d like to point out that Ovi has a pretty low corsi %. oiSV% is a solid stat for tracking how effective of a defender one is. If it’s high, it means that you play a defensive style that allows goalies to see the puck well. If you have high blocks and a high oiSV%, then you are solid at knowing when the right time to block a shot is. If you have a really low GA/60 and the other numbers, then you not only block shots well, but you limit shots against as well. What those stats tell me is that Hagg and Gudas’s defensive style is one that limits the shots against to clear lane type ones. And apparently that suits the Philly goaltenders. Now it’s fascinating to me that he allows so many high risk opportunities but still allows very few goals against. I’m honestly not sure why that is, i just gave you my theory. I will give you one of my favourite statistics. To show why I think Hagg is solid. This is minutes played and how the team has done when Hagg has played different amounts of minutes. Basically Hagg is a perfect 2D. As long as he is kept to a defensive role he excells. When he starts to take time away from the top line and plays with top forwards, he becomes a liability defensively. But if he plays on the top line in a shutdown role he is impressive. It’s interesting that the team steadily scores more the more that he plays. He holds the D together enough that he allows other to play more offensively. When he doesn’t play much in a game, the Flyers collapse. Of course there are many variables, as there is with all statistics, but this gives you a general idea of how he affects team play. Keep in mind that he rarely plays any more than 1 special teams minute in a game, so these are completely ES minutes. 15-17 is the same as 18-21 for a special teams D.
11-14: 1-8-0 2.6-4.4 GF/GA
15-17: 12-5-2 2.8-2.5 GF/GA
18-19: 4-7-2 3.1-4.2 GF/GA
20-23: 5-3-1 3.2-3.3 GF/GA
Jan. 31, 2019 at 10:58 p.m.
#7
You know nothing JS
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2017
Posts: 7,172
Likes: 4,518
Quoting: Flyers2000
This comment made me laugh. First off he hasn’t been better than Provorov, and even if he was, that wouldn’t be saying much cause Provorov has been downright abysmal this season. He actually hasn’t even been better than Ghost which is sad considering Ghost’s an offensive d-man. What makes him good defensively according to you? Is it his +/-? Cause that’s known to be the worst stat in hockey. Is it his hits and blocks because that would just make you ignorant. More hits and blocks doesn’t equal better defense it equals more defensive zone time because Hagg can’t make a breakout pass to save his life. His stats don’t look to bad, but if you look at analytics, the only reason they look even a tiny bit good is because he has the best puck luck on the team (that’s PDO if you actually do know something about analytics). Which d-man gets outplayed the most (CF%)? Hagg. Which d-man allows the most shot attempts (CA/60)? Hagg. Which d-man has the highest rate of scoring chances allowed (SCA/60)? Hagg. Which d-man allows the most high danger scoring chances (HDCF/60)? Hagg. There are 31 teams in the NHL. Each play 6 d-men. That’s 186 d-men. Plus whatever 7th D and AHL fill-ins they’ve played. Hagg ranks 181st. He’s a garbage player who’s gotten extremely lucky with his goal based results this season. If there is any team that completely ignores analytics and is stupid enough to give the offer you proposed, I’ll buy Hagg’s plane ticket myself


Daaaaaaaamn

Now that's arguments. I like how you roll.

Using your sources for stats, please tell me then which young LHD with mobility and good puck movement should the Habs focus on then. Columbus, Carolina, Anaheim and Dallas seems to have a lot of those.

Sanheim? I'm scared to ask...
Feb. 1, 2019 at 8:25 a.m.
#8
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 297
Likes: 43
Quoting: NucksFanForLife
I’d like to point out that Ovi has a pretty low corsi %. oiSV% is a solid stat for tracking how effective of a defender one is. If it’s high, it means that you play a defensive style that allows goalies to see the puck well. If you have high blocks and a high oiSV%, then you are solid at knowing when the right time to block a shot is. If you have a really low GA/60 and the other numbers, then you not only block shots well, but you limit shots against as well. What those stats tell me is that Hagg and Gudas’s defensive style is one that limits the shots against to clear lane type ones. And apparently that suits the Philly goaltenders. Now it’s fascinating to me that he allows so many high risk opportunities but still allows very few goals against. I’m honestly not sure why that is, i just gave you my theory. I will give you one of my favourite statistics. To show why I think Hagg is solid. This is minutes played and how the team has done when Hagg has played different amounts of minutes. Basically Hagg is a perfect 2D. As long as he is kept to a defensive role he excells. When he starts to take time away from the top line and plays with top forwards, he becomes a liability defensively. But if he plays on the top line in a shutdown role he is impressive. It’s interesting that the team steadily scores more the more that he plays. He holds the D together enough that he allows other to play more offensively. When he doesn’t play much in a game, the Flyers collapse. Of course there are many variables, as there is with all statistics, but this gives you a general idea of how he affects team play. Keep in mind that he rarely plays any more than 1 special teams minute in a game, so these are completely ES minutes. 15-17 is the same as 18-21 for a special teams D.
11-14: 1-8-0 2.6-4.4 GF/GA
15-17: 12-5-2 2.8-2.5 GF/GA
18-19: 4-7-2 3.1-4.2 GF/GA
20-23: 5-3-1 3.2-3.3 GF/GA


I was once on your side of the debate when it comes to Hagg and used those exact arguments but in the end, all you’re referencing is puck luck which is exactly what I was told. GA/60 is moreso a results based stat than it is a process based stat. If the process is bad but the goal total is good, then you’re simply getting lucky. You said you aren’t sure why he’s allowing chances but not goals, it’s luck. Goalies are able to steal goals away from player or players are able to miss high quality chances, we see it every game where we ask ourselves “how didn’t that puck go in?” That just so happens to happen more when Hagg is on the ice, hence his bad process based stats but solid results based stats such as GF and GA per 60 and save percentage. Even if you look at the GF and GA you provided at the end. I think the goals against tell the story. There’s no correlation. The goals against going up and down were just as likely to happen to the goals for, but by fluke, the goals for just so happened to increase for reasons other than Hagg getting more ice time. There’s no actual correlation. It’s like saying I stopped studying and got a better mark on my next test (it’s actually happened to me) therefore not studying leads to better marks. There seems to be a correlation but there really wasn’t, it was simply luck. The one question that was never exactly answered to me was what happens if this type of play and luck would continue? At what point are we simply allowed to say that we can’t really explain it but Hagg just gets the results? I was told by people who I believe are smarter than me that the most we can conclude is that Hagg is one lucky son of a gun. But his metrics have improved for last year to this year. He’s still pretty young, maybe he keeps improving and becomes more than a third pair guy
Feb. 1, 2019 at 10:33 a.m.
#9
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 892
Likes: 301
Quoting: Flyers2000
I was once on your side of the debate when it comes to Hagg and used those exact arguments but in the end, all you’re referencing is puck luck which is exactly what I was told. GA/60 is moreso a results based stat than it is a process based stat. If the process is bad but the goal total is good, then you’re simply getting lucky. You said you aren’t sure why he’s allowing chances but not goals, it’s luck. Goalies are able to steal goals away from player or players are able to miss high quality chances, we see it every game where we ask ourselves “how didn’t that puck go in?” That just so happens to happen more when Hagg is on the ice, hence his bad process based stats but solid results based stats such as GF and GA per 60 and save percentage. Even if you look at the GF and GA you provided at the end. I think the goals against tell the story. There’s no correlation. The goals against going up and down were just as likely to happen to the goals for, but by fluke, the goals for just so happened to increase for reasons other than Hagg getting more ice time. There’s no actual correlation. It’s like saying I stopped studying and got a better mark on my next test (it’s actually happened to me) therefore not studying leads to better marks. There seems to be a correlation but there really wasn’t, it was simply luck. The one question that was never exactly answered to me was what happens if this type of play and luck would continue? At what point are we simply allowed to say that we can’t really explain it but Hagg just gets the results? I was told by people who I believe are smarter than me that the most we can conclude is that Hagg is one lucky son of a gun. But his metrics have improved for last year to this year. He’s still pretty young, maybe he keeps improving and becomes more than a third pair guy


And I tend to be the same way with that unanswered question. Sure, there's an element of luck. But continuing luck - to what point is a player just lucky versus saying that the style that he plays suits the team and actually produces the outcome? Like combing his whole career in those results stats, it looks like this. Is it just 120+ lucky games in a row? As you said, down the road we'll see. He was only a rookie last year and has a ton of room to grow. There's no reason to give up on him. I just find it interesting how good they are when he plays 20+ minutes and how awful they are when he plays 15- minutes. I struggle to see how that is a coincidence.
11-15: 7-15-4 2.6-3.7 GF/GA
16-17: 22-13-3 2.8-2.8 GF/GA
18-19: 16-14-5 3.1-3.4 GF/GA
20-26: 13-5-6 3.4-2.8 GF/GA
without him: 8-6-2 2.9-3.3 GF/GA
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll