Forums/Armchair-GM

If Carlyle is fired

Created by: BCAPP
Initial Creation Date: Feb 5, 2019
Published: Feb 5, 2019 at 10:52 am
Team: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs
Team Explanation
I really think he should be (I think he's a terrible coach who won a cup because he had 2 hall of famers on the back end, 3 hall of famers up front, and about 4 all star caliber players, and Giggy playing like a hall of famer at that point in his career). I wonder if Murray will go with him because while he did really good for a while he has really locked the forward corps into aging contracts.

Regardless I don't think they'd trade Manson if Carlyle was still around because he loves himself some tough hockey! But otherwise I think they can afford to move one of their 3 young defenseman (or 1 prime aged defenseman in Fowler) for help up front.

With this trade they still get a competent 2nd pairing defenseman on the right side for term
Trades
TOR
  1. Manson, Josh
  2. 2019 6th round pick (ANA)
ANA
  1. Kapanen, Kasperi
  2. Zaitsev, Nikita
  3. Engvall, Pierre
  4. 2020 2nd round pick (TOR)
  5. 2019 4th round pick (TOR)
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
Buried
  • Michael Hutchinson: $275,000 ($1,300,000)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2018
2019
TOR
TOR
STL
TOR
ANA
TOR
DAL
2020
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
EDM
SJS
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
22$79,500,000$74,472,778$2,550,000$6,250,000$5,027,222
Left WingCenterRight Wing
TOR
Marleau, Patrick
$6,250,000
LW, C
NMC
UFA - 2
TOR
Matthews, Auston
$925,000
C
UFA - 1
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$894,167
RW
UFA - 1
TOR
Hyman, Zach
$2,250,000
LW
UFA - 3
TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 7
TOR
Brown, Connor
$2,100,000
LW, RW
RFA - 2
TOR
Johnsson, Andreas
$787,500
LW
UFA - 1
TOR
Kadri, Nazem
$4,500,000
C
NTC
UFA - 4
TOR
Nylander, William
$10,277,778
RW, C
UFA - 6
TOR
Lindholm, Pär
$925,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
TOR
Gauthier, Frédérik
$675,000
C
RFA - 2
TOR
Moore, Trevor
$925,000
RW, LW
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 2
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 4
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 3
TOR
Gardiner, Jake
$4,050,000
LD
UFA - 1
ANA
Manson, Josh
$4,100,000
RD
UFA - 4
TOR
Sparks, Garret
$675,000
G
UFA - 1
TOR
Dermott, Travis
$863,333
LD
RFA - 2
TOR
Hainsey, Ron
$3,000,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
TOR
Holl, Justin
$675,000
RD
UFA - 2
TOR
Ennis, Tyler
$650,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 1
TOR
Horton, Nathan
$5,300,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Ozhiganov, Igor
$925,000
RD
UFA - 1

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Feb 5, 2019 at 10:54
#1
#LeafsFever
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,017
Likes: 750
Kapanen will not get dealt mid-season and I would argue that he will not be dealt at all. Nylander will go before he gets moved.
Feb 5, 2019 at 11:04
#2
Wannabe Leafs GM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,013
Likes: 307
Quoting: MG1986
Kapanen will not get dealt mid-season and I would argue that he will not be dealt at all. Nylander will go before he gets moved.


I just had this conversation with a buddy of mine. We both agreed if Nylander doesn't go at least a point per game for the remainder of the season, he is gone and Kappi stays.
Feb 5, 2019 at 11:06
#3
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 11,489
Likes: 4,528
Quoting: Davisoc
I just had this conversation with a buddy of mine. We both agreed if Nylander doesn't go at least a point per game for the remainder of the season, he is gone and Kappi stays.


Quoting: MG1986
Kapanen will not get dealt mid-season and I would argue that he will not be dealt at all. Nylander will go before he gets moved.


No.. Nylander is staying as long as Dubas is GM, it was said loud and clear and none of us can do **** about it. Kapanen stays as well as Nylander. If someone offers something big for Kapanen they would move him otherwise not. Other pieces would go like Brown, Zaitsev..
Feb 5, 2019 at 11:06
#4
#LeafsFever
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,017
Likes: 750
Quoting: Davisoc
I just had this conversation with a buddy of mine. We both agreed if Nylander doesn't go at least a point per game for the remainder of the season, he is gone and Kappi stays.


It's a shame I was not part of that discussion because I would have liked to add in my 2 cents. I don't think it's really a matter of what he does or does not do this season. The Leafs play in a salary capped league and he's just too expensive for what you are getting out of him. At a point per game for the rest of the season, he is only upping his value, which is good news for the Leafs. However, as hard as he only sometimes tries, he does not hustle as much as he should be, doesn't really play defense either. In Kapanen you will have a far less expensive player, faster than Nylander and plays a far better defensive game.
Feb 5, 2019 at 11:33
#5
Lenny7
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,123
Likes: 799
I mean, Murray definitely duffed when he signed Perry/Kesler long term, but the Rakell, Fowler, Lindholm, Gibby, Manson, Montour, Kase contracts are all excellent. Even the Henrique one is similar to what he'd be paid on the open market.

They've also got a bit of cap space coming up this offseason. Silfverberg is the only UFA forward, their D core is locked up, and they'll need to either resign Miller or replace him. Without Silfverberg and Miller, they'll have $13-ish mil if the cap jumps to $85. Even if it's only $10-11 at $83, that's still some serious wiggle room to improve this team.

They've also drafted quite well under Murray. Steel, Larsson, Comtois, Terry, Mahura, etc. were all taken after the 27th overall pick, and they all look as though they've got some serious potential.

End of the day, taking Zaitsev's contract and the 5 years remaining will require sending an asset or pick (A late 2nd in 2020 doesn't move the needle), and I don't think there's a world where Murray trades Manson straight up for Kapanen.
Feb 5, 2019 at 11:39
#6
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,324
Likes: 3,775
Quoting: Davisoc
I just had this conversation with a buddy of mine. We both agreed if Nylander doesn't go at least a point per game for the remainder of the season, he is gone and Kappi stays.


That is a tad bit of an over reaction. You are demanding a player score at a point a game while playing on the 3rd line and 2nd PP unit. Nylander is far better than Kapanen. Look at how his line is playing right now, Nylander is making Kadri and Brown look scary and surprisingly is on the cycle where they are doing their best work. Who would have thought Nylander would develop a cycle game.
Feb 5, 2019 at 11:41
#7
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,324
Likes: 3,775
Quoting: MG1986
It's a shame I was not part of that discussion because I would have liked to add in my 2 cents. I don't think it's really a matter of what he does or does not do this season. The Leafs play in a salary capped league and he's just too expensive for what you are getting out of him. At a point per game for the rest of the season, he is only upping his value, which is good news for the Leafs. However, as hard as he only sometimes tries, he does not hustle as much as he should be, doesn't really play defense either. In Kapanen you will have a far less expensive player, faster than Nylander and plays a far better defensive game.


You have forgotten what Nylander is and are ignoring how he's transforming his game. He's actually been one of the better cycle guys over the past number of games, I never would have predicted that, but its awesome.
Feb 5, 2019 at 11:48
#8
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,007
Likes: 871
Quoting: Lenny7
I mean, Murray definitely duffed when he signed Perry/Kesler long term, but the Rakell, Fowler, Lindholm, Gibby, Manson, Montour, Kase contracts are all excellent. Even the Henrique one is similar to what he'd be paid on the open market.

They've also got a bit of cap space coming up this offseason. Silfverberg is the only UFA forward, their D core is locked up, and they'll need to either resign Miller or replace him. Without Silfverberg and Miller, they'll have $13-ish mil if the cap jumps to $85. Even if it's only $10-11 at $83, that's still some serious wiggle room to improve this team.

They've also drafted quite well under Murray. Steel, Larsson, Comtois, Terry, Mahura, etc. were all taken after the 27th overall pick, and they all look as though they've got some serious potential.

End of the day, taking Zaitsev's contract and the 5 years remaining will require sending an asset or pick (A late 2nd in 2020 doesn't move the needle), and I don't think there's a world where Murray trades Manson straight up for Kapanen.


He's certainly had his strengths, and in general I think has done more good than bad. He has traded pretty well and acquired talent excellently through the draft and European FA. However, I think he made a really big mistake in signing Carlyle, and at forwards made a big mistake signing Kesler in particular. The Getzlaf/Perry contracts I always felt expensive from day one, given their age, but Getzlaf is aging fine, Perry is not, which isn't all that unsurprising.

Regardless, he has made his bed, of a good goalie, a good young D corps, but a broken forward corps built around a past his prime, but still pretty good getzlaf and two huge boat anchors past their prime in Kesler/Perry. He has a great complimentary piece in Rackell, but unless he can play center, a guy of his skill isn't enough to build around. Henrique and Kase are fine, and Kase's contract is pretty good. But he needs high end forwards
Feb 5, 2019 at 12:11
#9
Lenny7
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,123
Likes: 799
Quoting: BCAPP
He's certainly had his strengths, and in general I think has done more good than bad. He has traded pretty well and acquired talent excellently through the draft and European FA. However, I think he made a really big mistake in signing Carlyle, and at forwards made a big mistake signing Kesler in particular. The Getzlaf/Perry contracts I always felt expensive from day one, given their age, but Getzlaf is aging fine, Perry is not, which isn't all that unsurprising.

Regardless, he has made his bed, of a good goalie, a good young D corps, but a broken forward corps built around a past his prime, but still pretty good getzlaf and two huge boat anchors past their prime in Kesler/Perry. He has a great complimentary piece in Rackell, but unless he can play center, a guy of his skill isn't enough to build around. Henrique and Kase are fine, and Kase's contract is pretty good. But he needs high end forwards


I mean, they've had the most man-games lost to injury this year by a long shot. Hard to develop any level of chemistry when you're running out the top 3 lines of the San Diego Gulls every night.

Regardless, if they're needing high end offence guys, I don't think Kap (while also taking Zaitsev) is anywhere close to the answer.

Replace Carlyle, let Kesler/Perry and everyone else get healthy, regroup, draft well, and then go into next year with a healthy roster and see what happens. If it's still bad, then it'll be time to pull make serious changes.
Feb 5, 2019 at 12:32
#10
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,007
Likes: 871
Quoting: Lenny7
I mean, they've had the most man-games lost to injury this year by a long shot. Hard to develop any level of chemistry when you're running out the top 3 lines of the San Diego Gulls every night.

Regardless, if they're needing high end offence guys, I don't think Kap (while also taking Zaitsev) is anywhere close to the answer.

Replace Carlyle, let Kesler/Perry and everyone else get healthy, regroup, draft well, and then go into next year with a healthy roster and see what happens. If it's still bad, then it'll be time to pull make serious changes.


Yeah it felt light to me to offer. A man can dream.

In regards to Perry and Kesler... It depends how quickly they want to compete. They're both tough as nails players well into their thirties who are frankly somewhat broken. Perry as of last year was still a top 6 winger just paid like a stud and not one anymore. Kesler on the other hand is just not. If they want to compete in the next year or two they may have to buy him out or pay someone to take him
Lenny7 liked this.
Feb 5, 2019 at 12:35
#11
Lenny7
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,123
Likes: 799
Quoting: BCAPP
Yeah it felt light to me to offer. A man can dream.

In regards to Perry and Kesler... It depends how quickly they want to compete. They're both tough as nails players well into their thirties who are frankly somewhat broken. Perry as of last year was still a top 6 winger just paid like a stud and not one anymore. Kesler on the other hand is just not. If they want to compete in the next year or two they may have to buy him out or pay someone to take him


I wouldn't be surprised if Kesler ends up "retiring" himself to a permanent spot on the LTIR. There was talk of it happening last offseason. I'd just like to see this team play when they're healthy.
Feb 5, 2019 at 1:09
#12
Wannabe Leafs GM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,013
Likes: 307
Quoting: MG1986
It's a shame I was not part of that discussion because I would have liked to add in my 2 cents. I don't think it's really a matter of what he does or does not do this season. The Leafs play in a salary capped league and he's just too expensive for what you are getting out of him. At a point per game for the rest of the season, he is only upping his value, which is good news for the Leafs. However, as hard as he only sometimes tries, he does not hustle as much as he should be, doesn't really play defense either. In Kapanen you will have a far less expensive player, faster than Nylander and plays a far better defensive game.


Thats is pretty much the same conversation we had. Kappi was dynamite against Pit, and Nylander, I thought he was scratched, didn't even notice him.
MG1986 liked this.
Feb 5, 2019 at 1:10
#13
Wannabe Leafs GM
Joined: Jul 2018
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
That is a tad bit of an over reaction. You are demanding a player score at a point a game while playing on the 3rd line and 2nd PP unit. Nylander is far better than Kapanen. Look at how his line is playing right now, Nylander is making Kadri and Brown look scary and surprisingly is on the cycle where they are doing their best work. Who would have thought Nylander would develop a cycle game.


And that is fine, but come on man. Look at some of the better producers in the league, they find a way. Someone with Nylanders skill should be finding a way. He did it last year when he was moved to the fourth line with Martin. He is playing with one of the best 3c in the league, and Brown is no slouch either.
Feb 5, 2019 at 1:32
#14
#LeafsFever
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,017
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Quoting: Davisoc
Thats is pretty much the same conversation we had. Kappi was dynamite against Pit, and Nylander, I thought he was scratched, didn't even notice him.


Sounds like a great discussion!
Feb 5, 2019 at 2:56
#15
Joined: May 2018
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Quoting: Davisoc
And that is fine, but come on man. Look at some of the better producers in the league, they find a way. Someone with Nylanders skill should be finding a way. He did it last year when he was moved to the fourth line with Martin. He is playing with one of the best 3c in the league, and Brown is no slouch either.


Yeah and he was the Leafs best forward last night and has been looking more and more dominant every game. People just look at his numbers and say he's over payed, that's all just fairweather thinking. He's great.
Feb 5, 2019 at 4:26
#16
Thread Starter
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
Yeah and he was the Leafs best forward last night and has been looking more and more dominant every game. People just look at his numbers and say he's over payed, that's all just fairweather thinking. He's great.


I'm a big Nylander fan. I think he has an underappreciated two way game (when committed). He's got an excellent shot, great vision, and great hands. He isn't the passer that marner is not the shooter than Matthews is, but he is a top line winger on most teams when on his game.

It took him a while to refund his game but he seems to be doing fine now, is routinely dangerous and is a good skater and is good defensively in that he's good at getting the puck out of the defensive zone and down the ice with possession.

All that being said he does have a problem with quitting plays when frustrated and his conditioning was garbage when coming back in December.

So as above I'm a Nylander fan and think he'll be worth 6-7 million so don't love, but am content with his cap hit. All that being said I think he probably should be traded after July 1 for two reasons.

One, his contract will be very appealing to teams that don't spend as much. At that point he'll only be due 750k for the rest of 2019/2020 and then6 m per year for 4 years. Anyone will recognize he's a bargain at under 5 mil (the average of the 5 years) and reasonably paid at 6 mil.

Two. Simple cap efficiency on team building. We could get away having as many superstars up front as we want when they're on elc's. We could also have gotten away with signing all three originally when they needed contracts. However with bringing Tavares in at 11 million, it just becomes super tight on the backend and makes it very difficult to get reasonable talent back there. I think the cap space would be better used on the backend
Feb 6, 2019 at 11:54
#17
Wannabe Leafs GM
Joined: Jul 2018
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
Yeah and he was the Leafs best forward last night and has been looking more and more dominant every game. People just look at his numbers and say he's over payed, that's all just fairweather thinking. He's great.


I dont follow stats, I follow games. And if you are being paid Boston's top line money, or being paid like you are a top winger in the league you better perform like it. Hard work is great, but Hyman works hard, Brown works hard, the Goat works hard. They don't put up north of 60 points a year like Nylander is supposed too. Nylander has been sub par in almost every single way. I am done making excuses for a guy almost making 7mill a year. The excuses ended after he played over 10 games. Its starting to get silly now. You are a professional athlete, you are a pro in the best league on the planet. You hold out like a selfish child for a 1/4 of the season and play sub par since coming back. Theres no excuse for that. I'll take Kappi and Johnnson over him any day right now. They have the drive, heart and POINTS.
Feb 6, 2019 at 12:02
#18
Joined: May 2018
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Quoting: Davisoc
I dont follow stats, I follow games. And if you are being paid Boston's top line money, or being paid like you are a top winger in the league you better perform like it. Hard work is great, but Hyman works hard, Brown works hard, the Goat works hard. They don't put up north of 60 points a year like Nylander is supposed too. Nylander has been sub par in almost every single way. I am done making excuses for a guy almost making 7mill a year. The excuses ended after he played over 10 games. Its starting to get silly now. You are a professional athlete, you are a pro in the best league on the planet. You hold out like a selfish child for a 1/4 of the season and play sub par since coming back. Theres no excuse for that. I'll take Kappi and Johnnson over him any day right now. They have the drive, heart and POINTS.


Have you not watched the last half dozen games? Nylander is flying out there and the fact he has added a decent cycle game should absolutely blow people away. He was never supposed to be a guy who digs in the corners and get the puck. He was supposed to a guy who flies around and stays away from players creating space. He is a legit top line winger and he's getting better each game. His legs are back, and all he needed was his confidence and that is also returning.
Feb 6, 2019 at 12:17
#19
Wannabe Leafs GM
Joined: Jul 2018
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
Have you not watched the last half dozen games? Nylander is flying out there and the fact he has added a decent cycle game should absolutely blow people away. He was never supposed to be a guy who digs in the corners and get the puck. He was supposed to a guy who flies around and stays away from players creating space. He is a legit top line winger and he's getting better each game. His legs are back, and all he needed was his confidence and that is also returning.


This is not a rookie anymore. He is technically in his fourth year as pro. There is no excuse for this and paying a guy 7mill to find himself is ridiculous. If this is what we had to expect we should have signed him for a 1-2 year deal at 5mill. At least that would have been easier to stomach and then we could have got him for what he is worth. Nylander is not work his contract right now. And after signing Mathews at 11.6 and Marner going to come in over 10 now, how can we afford an under preforming winger at 7mill. Hes the JVR of Toronto right now. Yes, the hope is over the next 5 years he will not only earn is contract but exceed it, but we need to hurry with that process. If the Leafs dominate a struggling team with goals, he should have been the one with 4 points, not Johnnson.
Feb 6, 2019 at 12:50
#20
Joined: May 2018
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Quoting: Davisoc
This is not a rookie anymore. He is technically in his fourth year as pro. There is no excuse for this and paying a guy 7mill to find himself is ridiculous. If this is what we had to expect we should have signed him for a 1-2 year deal at 5mill. At least that would have been easier to stomach and then we could have got him for what he is worth. Nylander is not work his contract right now. And after signing Mathews at 11.6 and Marner going to come in over 10 now, how can we afford an under preforming winger at 7mill. Hes the JVR of Toronto right now. Yes, the hope is over the next 5 years he will not only earn is contract but exceed it, but we need to hurry with that process. If the Leafs dominate a struggling team with goals, he should have been the one with 4 points, not Johnnson.


Again, have you watched the last several games? Nylander missed training camp and the start of the season and then came in with the enormous pressure of his contract. Many fans immediately railroaded him because they have apparently forgotten how good he is and that would also impact a player mentally. All of that happened and then he slumped when he was finding his legs, he's getting close to mid season form and his confidence is coming back and he's scoring and creating a tonne of chances. He's dominating from a possession standpoint and he's even added a cycle element to his game which TO needs to do a much better job of as a whole.

And now you are saying that Nylander is embarrassing because in a game the leafs crush the opponent he gets 2 points and that still isn't good enough because a different player had 4 points? Come on man, you are better than this. This is fairweather fan nonsense. Nylander is better than everyone the Leafs not named Matthews, Marner, Tavares or Rielly. There is a big margin between him and the rest of the team. He has so much more skill than the rest of the players and his determination and game is getting much better. Just watch him next game.
Feb 6, 2019 at 1:00
#21
Wannabe Leafs GM
Joined: Jul 2018
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
Again, have you watched the last several games? Nylander missed training camp and the start of the season and then came in with the enormous pressure of his contract. Many fans immediately railroaded him because they have apparently forgotten how good he is and that would also impact a player mentally. All of that happened and then he slumped when he was finding his legs, he's getting close to mid season form and his confidence is coming back and he's scoring and creating a tonne of chances. He's dominating from a possession standpoint and he's even added a cycle element to his game which TO needs to do a much better job of as a whole.

And now you are saying that Nylander is embarrassing because in a game the leafs crush the opponent he gets 2 points and that still isn't good enough because a different player had 4 points? Come on man, you are better than this. This is fairweather fan nonsense. Nylander is better than everyone the Leafs not named Matthews, Marner, Tavares or Rielly. There is a big margin between him and the rest of the team. He has so much more skill than the rest of the players and his determination and game is getting much better. Just watch him next game.


Again this argument started when I said, if he doesn't go a point per game for the remainder of the season he should be moved this offseason after his bonus is paid for an area the leafs need help. You don't win Cups by spending all your money on defense (Preds, St Louis, Wild), you dont win with spending all your money on forwards (Hawks, in some ways Pens, LA) you need a balance. And spending all this money on JT, Mathews, Marner, Nylander where is the space to get a top defender. The Leafs are one more move from not contending but dominating. Why not move Nylander if he isn't living up to his contract. If Nylander can get you a Parayko, then he is worth moving. Especially when we now have a top 6 Kappi on our hands. Moving Nylander gives up Marner, Kappi and Brown. That is a very VERY solid top 9 RW.
Feb 6, 2019 at 1:11
#22
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,324
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Quoting: Davisoc
Again this argument started when I said, if he doesn't go a point per game for the remainder of the season he should be moved this offseason after his bonus is paid for an area the leafs need help. You don't win Cups by spending all your money on defense (Preds, St Louis, Wild), you dont win with spending all your money on forwards (Hawks, in some ways Pens, LA) you need a balance. And spending all this money on JT, Mathews, Marner, Nylander where is the space to get a top defender. The Leafs are one more move from not contending but dominating. Why not move Nylander if he isn't living up to his contract. If Nylander can get you a Parayko, then he is worth moving. Especially when we now have a top 6 Kappi on our hands. Moving Nylander gives up Marner, Kappi and Brown. That is a very VERY solid top 9 RW.


Kappi has 1 goal in his past 14 games and you are building a statue for him. I am pretty sure Nylander has outscored him over the past 15 games and if we compare the players ceilings, again Kapanen comes up short. I love Kapanen, don't get me wrong, but Nylander is just better. Nylander is absolutely a top line player and on this squad I see multiple 80+ point seasons for the kid (keep in mind he is still 22 afterall). I think the absolute best year for Kapanen will be a 30 goal 50 + point campaign.
Feb 6, 2019 at 1:22
#23
Wannabe Leafs GM
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
Kappi has 1 goal in his past 14 games and you are building a statue for him. I am pretty sure Nylander has outscored him over the past 15 games and if we compare the players ceilings, again Kapanen comes up short. I love Kapanen, don't get me wrong, but Nylander is just better. Nylander is absolutely a top line player and on this squad I see multiple 80+ point seasons for the kid (keep in mind he is still 22 afterall). I think the absolute best year for Kapanen will be a 30 goal 50 + point campaign.


Thats not my argument. You are being hung up with the notion of Leaf Fans saying he is bad. That is not my argument. My argument is to move him from our core to bring in a piece we need more. My argument for Kap is that he is a great second line winger with Marner being our number one. We are not an 80 point season from Nylander away from a cup. We are a one amazing defender away from having no team, Tampa included being able to touch our depth. If I have to sacrifice an expensive forward so I can sign Kapp for like 5 years @ 4 and then bring in a Parayko I am doing it without a second look.
Feb 6, 2019 at 1:30
#24
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,324
Likes: 3,775
Quoting: Davisoc
Thats not my argument. You are being hung up with the notion of Leaf Fans saying he is bad. That is not my argument. My argument is to move him from our core to bring in a piece we need more. My argument for Kap is that he is a great second line winger with Marner being our number one. We are not an 80 point season from Nylander away from a cup. We are a one amazing defender away from having no team, Tampa included being able to touch our depth. If I have to sacrifice an expensive forward so I can sign Kapp for like 5 years @ 4 and then bring in a Parayko I am doing it without a second look.


So in that concept it won't be a 1 for 1 trade. St Louis will say he's a franchise #1 defenceman which he just isn't. He's never been the #1 guy in St Louis always the #2 RHD behind Pietrangelo. How will he play if he thrust into a position of being a top guy? Its hard to say. The blues are going to want Nylander, Liljegren and a 1st and that is a massive overpayment. Nylander for Parayko would be a trade I would do, but only if its a 1 for 1 which it won't be.

I'd rather send Kapanen to Carolina for Pesce, I don't see Parayko as great as most people but I know he's a very good player, I see Pesce as a better fit for TO though since he's more defensive and as long as he doens't turn into a massive dumpster fire like Komisarek did, he'd be a good addition. Just not for the priced people on here are talking about.

Also I don't get some of your logic, you say you can't win if you spend all your money on defence or all your money on offense and then cited several teams who have won the cup recently. Apparently the moral of the story is, you need to have stars and good players to surround them. Nylander is going to be a star (I'd say he already is one) and trading him for far below his value is not a good idea.
Feb 6, 2019 at 10:11
#25
Wannabe Leafs GM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,013
Likes: 307
Quoting: LoganOllivier
So in that concept it won't be a 1 for 1 trade. St Louis will say he's a franchise #1 defenceman which he just isn't. He's never been the #1 guy in St Louis always the #2 RHD behind Pietrangelo. How will he play if he thrust into a position of being a top guy? Its hard to say. The blues are going to want Nylander, Liljegren and a 1st and that is a massive overpayment. Nylander for Parayko would be a trade I would do, but only if its a 1 for 1 which it won't be.

I'd rather send Kapanen to Carolina for Pesce, I don't see Parayko as great as most people but I know he's a very good player, I see Pesce as a better fit for TO though since he's more defensive and as long as he doens't turn into a massive dumpster fire like Komisarek did, he'd be a good addition. Just not for the priced people on here are talking about.

Also I don't get some of your logic, you say you can't win if you spend all your money on defence or all your money on offense and then cited several teams who have won the cup recently. Apparently the moral of the story is, you need to have stars and good players to surround them. Nylander is going to be a star (I'd say he already is one) and trading him for far below his value is not a good idea.


Another game with 5 goals. One shot on goal and minus one. Thanks for coming out nylander. I hope he can dry his tears with all his money.
 
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