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(OTT/VGK) - Stone for Brännström, Lindberg, 2nd round.

Who won the trade?
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Feb 25 at 4:47
#51
Majors and minors
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 78
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Remember, how valuable is the team's most valuable player, Fleury that is? because if its true, Stone got the 9.5 that's 2.5 more than Fleury.... catch my drift?

Dorion, you did alright.
Feb 25 at 4:50
#52
Majors and minors
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 78
Likes: 13
Quoting: CoraStorm
Remember, how valuable is the team's most valuable player, Fleury that is? because if its true, Stone got the 9.5 that's 2.5 more than Fleury.... catch my drift?

Dorion, you did alright.


I wonder if this means that Fleury will get a 2.5 mil times 8 ??? isn't that like 20 mil over 8 for Fleury?
Feb 25 at 4:53
#53
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 7,336
Likes: 1,481
I don't see how anyone thinks Ottawa won this.
You look at the return for MD and then this. They didn't even get a 1st.
Brannstrom, ok, maybe he develops into something. But he's yet to lace up in the NHL. So you don't really know what you even have yet. There are scores of players who looked good at the AHL level and equated to all of 0 in the NHL.

My honest opinion is they held on way too long. They got pressed to the deadline and left assets on the table. I think they could have done better.
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Feb 25 at 4:53
#54
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 243
Likes: 9
Vegas easily wins. They get a PPG+ player for a 2nd round pick, bot 6 forward who's leaving this summer and a top 2 dman. With Hague, Whitecloud & Biscoff in the system, they had enough NHL D-man to make this trade. OTT got screwed again.
athrin liked this.
Feb 25 at 5:29
#55
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 78
Likes: 18
Got to give the win to Ottawa here. Stone is in his last year and will be making big money next season for long term. Nobody knows what kind of player he will be in a year or 2 or whatever. If Ottawa wasn't prepared to hand out that contract, then trading is their best option before he walks for nothing. They get a bottom 6/depth player in Lindberg, who they can likely easily resign cheap if they like what they see out of him in that role 9 (dynamic forward that can play wing and center). They get a great young d prospect in Brannstrom; somebody I'm really surprised to see Vegas give up so easily (though I'm sure they will sign Stone for 7+10mil/season or something). And they get a little 2nd rnd pick tacked on next year, which could always turn into another solid role player on a future Ottawa team that has many such players, and more elite prospects. Combine this with the Dzingle and Duchene asset drops/grabs, and they are looking pretty good going into the future, as far as potential goes. Everybody seems to forget that they blew up a team before like this, and turned it around in a decent time period. I expect them to do the same thing here. Maybe in a few years, when Boston is struggling to replace their vets, Toronto is regretting signing certain players and not trading them sooner to keep their prospect pool healthy (going for it all every season is easy way to lose future assets quick), Buffalo is likely to be right there as a top young team, Montreal and Florida are who knows where(?), and Tampa is still probably a power house; Ottawa should be able to start competing around then, and will likely follow a similar path they did with this past core of players and the other core of the players from even longer ago.
Feb 25 at 6:17
#56
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 473
Quoting: HabsForEver
Ottawa wins this trade. Brannstrom is the real deal.


So he's guaranteed to be an elite player when his team needs him for a playoff run?

Oh wait no .... that's Stone.
Feb 25 at 6:20
#57
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 473
Quoting: oilersfan089
Got to give the win to Ottawa here. Stone is in his last year and will be making big money next season for long term. Nobody knows what kind of player he will be in a year or 2 or whatever. If Ottawa wasn't prepared to hand out that contract, then trading is their best option before he walks for nothing. They get a bottom 6/depth player in Lindberg, who they can likely easily resign cheap if they like what they see out of him in that role 9 (dynamic forward that can play wing and center). They get a great young d prospect in Brannstrom; somebody I'm really surprised to see Vegas give up so easily (though I'm sure they will sign Stone for 7+10mil/season or something). And they get a little 2nd rnd pick tacked on next year, which could always turn into another solid role player on a future Ottawa team that has many such players, and more elite prospects. Combine this with the Dzingle and Duchene asset drops/grabs, and they are looking pretty good going into the future, as far as potential goes. Everybody seems to forget that they blew up a team before like this, and turned it around in a decent time period. I expect them to do the same thing here. Maybe in a few years, when Boston is struggling to replace their vets, Toronto is regretting signing certain players and not trading them sooner to keep their prospect pool healthy (going for it all every season is easy way to lose future assets quick), Buffalo is likely to be right there as a top young team, Montreal and Florida are who knows where(?), and Tampa is still probably a power house; Ottawa should be able to start competing around then, and will likely follow a similar path they did with this past core of players and the other core of the players from even longer ago.


Stone is 26 and playing the best hockey of his career.

His play in 2 years is 1,000% more guaranteed than anyone Ottawa got back.
Feb 25 at 6:23
#58
Retired V2 & V3 GM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 2,155
Likes: 369
Huge win for VEGAS! This was a total steal! Ottawa got more for Duchene than they did for Stone.
Feb 25 at 6:26
#59
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 473
Quoting: moli92
Chabot
Tkachuk
White
Brown
Batherson
Chlapik
Norris
Formenton
Abramov
Lajoie
Brannstrom
6 potential 1st round picks in the next 3 years
8 potential 2nd round picks in the next 3 years

Regardless of who they had before, this is one of the best prospect pools in the league


Because Ottawa has no NHL players.
oilersfan089 liked this.
Feb 25 at 6:27
#60
Cale 4 Calder
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,554
Likes: 1,055
Quoting: drewjenks
Because Ottawa has no NHL players.


which makes their picks the next few years even more valuable and puts them in an even better position in the future
Feb 25 at 6:47
#61
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 78
Likes: 18
Quoting: drewjenks
Stone is 26 and playing the best hockey of his career.

His play in 2 years is 1,000% more guaranteed than anyone Ottawa got back.


Fair point. But again, if Ottawa isn't prepared to hand out such large contracts (think of what it does to all the other smaller contracts....now everybody wants a bit more), then they do the right thing by bringing in players that other teams shouldn't be dealing. I feel Brannstrom is one of those players; really the only good d prospect in Vegas's young organization. But ya, Stone is a solid forward to have right now, and probably for another few years at the very least. What does he sign for next season though? I could easily see him go after 8mil at least, something like Wheeler's deal, but I could also see him go even higher depending on how well he adds to Vegas in a playoff run. Does Vegas get him though? What if they don't even make the playoffs, and Stone doesn't gel well during this short time frame? Or they do make it but get tossed out quick and people point fingers at Stone for "not doing enough". Maybe he signs somewhere else that seem to have more odds of being a contender.
Feb 25 at 6:57
#62
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 243
Likes: 9
Tobias Lindberg, welcome back to Vegas. He went to PIT last TDL, to OTT and no back to VGK.
Feb 25 at 7:13
#63
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,429
Likes: 419
Quoting: Hockeylover360
Not really, and there's chances you draft a bust. There is always that chance. It's not likely but it could happen.


Nail Yakupov anyone?
Hockeylover360 liked this.
Feb 25 at 7:38
#64
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,711
Likes: 703
Quoting: Barathrum_Obama
and Stone is one of the best wingers in the NHL in his prime. if he signs an extension, Vegas wins


VGK only wins if they win the Cup this year and/or re-sign Stone. Otherwise, they lose. Either way, OTT wins big too.
Feb 25 at 9:04
#65
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 953
Likes: 393
That Tobias Lindberg went on a journey

2016-Feb-09 Traded from Ottawa Senators with Jared Cowen, Colin Greening, Milan Michalek and round 2 pick in the 2017 draft (Eemeli Rasanen) to Toronto Maple Leafs for Matt Frattin, Ryan Rupert, Dion Phaneuf, Casey Bailey and Cody Donaghey
2017-Oct-06 Traded from Toronto Maple Leafs with round 6 pick in the 2018 draft to Vegas Golden Knights for Calvin Pickard
2018-Feb-23 Traded from Vegas Golden Knights to Pittsburgh Penguins for round 3 pick in the 2019 draft
2018-Dec-05 Traded from Pittsburgh Penguins with Stefan Elliott to Ottawa Senators for Ben Sexton and Macoy Erkamps
2019-Feb-25 Traded from Ottawa Senators with Mark Stone to Vegas Golden Knights for Oscar Lindberg, Erik Brannstrom and round 2 pick in the 2020 draft
Feb 25 at 9:38
#66
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 21
Likes: 18
Quoting: drewjenks
I think that's what Edmonton said 15 years ago + 10 years ago + 5 years ago + 2 years ago.

Just for Ottawa to get back to where they were ... they'll need various trade returns to develop into:


Karlsson
Stone
Duchene
Hoffman
Dzingel
Turris
Brassard
Bowers
Phaneuf
Wideman
Lazar
Anderson



This is extremely linear thinking they don't need to directly replace those players, they need to find talent and build a competitive team. Each teams contention cycles are going to look different from the last.
Feb 25 at 9:46
#67
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 21
Likes: 18
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
How good is Brannstrom? I know he's good but it doesn't look like enough for Stone. Maybe i'm undervaluing Brannstrom though.


Make no mistake Brannstrom is legit, many neutral outlets are high on him, don't get me wrong I don't think Ottawa got full value, but people are running down Brannstrom as a result an I don't think that is fair.
Feb 27 at 12:57
#68
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 473
Quoting: moli92
which makes their picks the next few years even more valuable and puts them in an even better position in the future


No .... it means they have so many roster holes to fill that their excess picks / prospects are irrelevant.

A significant portion of them need to pan out just to make Ottawa an average team again.
Feb 27 at 1:01
#69
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 473
Quoting: Patriot12992
This is extremely linear thinking they don't need to directly replace those players, they need to find talent and build a competitive team. Each teams contention cycles are going to look different from the last.


Obviously ... but a large chunk of their pick / prospect pool will need to pan out just to bring Ottawa out of the basement.
Feb 27 at 7:31
#70
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,224
Likes: 844
Ottawa Wins
Feb 27 at 9:46
#71
Sports and Tacos
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,696
Likes: 469
Quoting: drewjenks
No .... it means they have so many roster holes to fill that their excess picks / prospects are irrelevant.

A significant portion of them need to pan out just to make Ottawa an average team again.


How is it irrelevant? The more picks/prospects you have, the better chance some of them will pan out.

Even if you have 5 busts out of 8 prospects, that's still 3 NHL Players.
Feb 27 at 12:04
#72
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 473
Quoting: ThatGuy
How is it irrelevant? The more picks/prospects you have, the better chance some of them will pan out.

Even if you have 5 busts out of 8 prospects, that's still 3 NHL Players.


OK I agree it's not irrelevant but you're missing my point.

Ottawa's roster is so bare that the first few prospects to pan out will make them OK .... the next few will make them good .... and the next few will make them great.

I'll use Toronto as an example. Ottawa obviously has a better prospect pool than Toronto.

However .... every prospect that pans out on Toronto (Liljegren, Sandin, Bracco, Moore, Petan, Rosen, etc) will be added to a core that already includes:

Matthews
Tavares
Marner
Nylander
Kapanen
Johnsson
Kadri
Rielly
Muzzin
Dermott
Andersen

Every prospect that pans out in Ottawa (Brannstrom, Brown, Formenton, Batherson, Balcers, Jaros, Abromov, etc) will be added to a core of:

Chabot
Tkachuk
Tierney
White
Ceci

Ottawa's roster is so far behind the top teams that it neutralizes the strength it's prospects.
Feb 27 at 12:48
#73
Sports and Tacos
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,696
Likes: 469
Quoting: drewjenks
OK I agree it's not irrelevant but you're missing my point.

Ottawa's roster is so bare that the first few prospects to pan out will make them OK .... the next few will make them good .... and the next few will make them great.

I'll use Toronto as an example. Ottawa obviously has a better prospect pool than Toronto.

However .... every prospect that pans out on Toronto (Liljegren, Sandin, Bracco, Moore, Petan, Rosen, etc) will be added to a core that already includes:

Matthews
Tavares
Marner
Nylander
Kapanen
Johnsson
Kadri
Rielly
Muzzin
Dermott
Andersen

Every prospect that pans out in Ottawa (Brannstrom, Brown, Formenton, Batherson, Balcers, Jaros, Abromov, etc) will be added to a core of:

Chabot
Tkachuk
Tierney
White
Ceci

Ottawa's roster is so far behind the top teams that it neutralizes the strength it's prospects.


I get what you're saying. I don't expect OTT to be a playoff contender in the next 2 seasons, especially next year shakes head

That being said, the "first generation core of players" will be established in that 2-year time frame. It will most likely include all the players you listed, beside maybe Abromov (Which is still a question mark), and more. They've all proven that they can be NHL players. (If they end up being top 6 or bottom 6 is yet to be determined).

And I agree, they will definitely need another wave of prospects to complement the core which they'll get in the next 3 years with the 15+ pick they have in the first three rounds.

But with the quantity and quality of prospect OTT has, I can't see this taking more than 3 years to make them relevant again.

Also, people are quick to criticize Dorion for the moves he's made but the guy has a really good eye for an amateur prospect. His draft picks in the last 3 years are unbelievable
Feb 27 at 12:53
#74
Sports and Tacos
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,696
Likes: 469
Quoting: drewjenks
OK I agree it's not irrelevant but you're missing my point.

Ottawa's roster is so bare that the first few prospects to pan out will make them OK .... the next few will make them good .... and the next few will make them great.

I'll use Toronto as an example. Ottawa obviously has a better prospect pool than Toronto.

However .... every prospect that pans out on Toronto (Liljegren, Sandin, Bracco, Moore, Petan, Rosen, etc) will be added to a core that already includes:

Matthews
Tavares
Marner
Nylander
Kapanen
Johnsson
Kadri
Rielly
Muzzin
Dermott
Andersen

Every prospect that pans out in Ottawa (Brannstrom, Brown, Formenton, Batherson, Balcers, Jaros, Abromov, etc) will be added to a core of:

Chabot
Tkachuk
Tierney
White
Ceci

Ottawa's roster is so far behind the top teams that it neutralizes the strength it's prospects.


It's also crucial that they dont follow the EDM foot steps!!!

In other words, trying to plug holes by signing or trading prospects for overpriced/outdated/overrated veterans.

They are screwed
Feb 27 at 1:35
#75
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,224
Likes: 844
Quoting: drewjenks
OK I agree it's not irrelevant but you're missing my point.

Ottawa's roster is so bare that the first few prospects to pan out will make them OK .... the next few will make them good .... and the next few will make them great.

I'll use Toronto as an example. Ottawa obviously has a better prospect pool than Toronto.

However .... every prospect that pans out on Toronto (Liljegren, Sandin, Bracco, Moore, Petan, Rosen, etc) will be added to a core that already includes:

Matthews
Tavares
Marner
Nylander
Kapanen
Johnsson
Kadri
Rielly
Muzzin
Dermott
Andersen

Every prospect that pans out in Ottawa (Brannstrom, Brown, Formenton, Batherson, Balcers, Jaros, Abromov, etc) will be added to a core of:

Chabot
Tkachuk
Tierney
White
Ceci

Ottawa's roster is so far behind the top teams that it neutralizes the strength it's prospects.


Ottawa has that core + those prospects +
15-30 overall this year
2 2nds 2019
Top 10 pick 2020
San Jose 1st round 2020
3 2nds 2020

If Ottawa can draft and develop as well as Toronto did, they can very well end up like them if not better.
 
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