SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

Who Will Tampa Move to Clear 13 Million in Cap Space

Created by: drewjenks
Team: 2019-20 Tampa Bay Lightning
Initial Creation Date: Mar. 2, 2019
Published: Mar. 3, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$1,000,000
2$900,000
2$900,000
2$900,000
8$10,500,000
2$1,000,000
2$1,000,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$1,000,000
2$900,000
5$4,500,000
2$2,500,000
2$2,500,000
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
2021
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
2022
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the TBL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$83,000,000$96,123,331$0$1,362,500-$13,123,331
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$9,500,000$9,500,000
RW
UFA - 8
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$10,500,000$10,500,000
C, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$8,500,000$8,500,000
LW, C
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$5,300,000$5,300,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$5,250,000$5,250,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$5,800,000$5,800,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$4,450,000$4,450,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$5,166,666$5,166,666
C, LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$5,000,000$5,000,000
RW, C, LW
NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$728,333$728,333 (Performance Bonus$182,500$182K)
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$728,333$728,333 (Performance Bonus$182,500$182K)
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$1,000,000$1,000,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$7,875,000$7,875,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$3,500,000$3,500,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$6,750,000$6,750,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 7
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$2,500,000$2,500,000
RD
UFA
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$1,150,000$1,150,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$2,500,000$2,500,000
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$697,500$697,500 (Performance Bonus$147,500$148K)
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$894,166$894,166 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Tampa Bay Lightning
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Mar. 3, 2019 at 1:26 p.m.
#26
Just making friends
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2016
Posts: 100
Likes: 76
Quoting: stammerman
You are assuming that Point would sign that offer as he has to be willing to play there, Point might want to stay in Tampa - if he wants to stay in Tampa he is going to have to take less based on the Lightning's salary structure. Will be interesting to see how his contract plays out. All these big ELC contract renewals are going to be interesting to watch.

Personally I think the players primed for offer sheets are the next level players behind the Marner, Point, Aho, Rantanan. Guys like Boeser, Kapanen, even Laine are more likely to be offer sheeted since the cost won't be as high.



https://twitter.com/JoeSmithTB/status/1093171442924036096

This is why I'm not that worried, Tampa will get it done. It isn't as bad as people are trying to make it out to be.
Mar. 3, 2019 at 4:54 p.m.
#27
KUUUCH
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 179
Likes: 33
Quoting: drewjenks
Matthews tax rate is the exact same as Tampa's - there is a Canada / US tax treaty that lets him pay tax through the state he chooses (because he's an American athelete).

Look it up.


I found no more than a whopping single article that semi-discusses your claim (and its Canada based). & The math and logic doesn't make sense to me. Please explain how he is taxed the same as in Tampa. Tax calculator's all say 6.2 in taxes paid for Matthews. https://gavingroup.ca/nhl-tax-calculator/
Mar. 3, 2019 at 5:02 p.m.
#28
KUUUCH
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 179
Likes: 33
Quoting: drewjenks
LOL soooo:

Point = $7,500,000 (after a 105 point season at Center? .... $7,000,000 is Paccioretty / Van Riemsdyk / Evander Kane level contracts)
Stralman = $2,500,000 (as a UFA top 4 RD .... plenty of teams would offer him $4,000,000 - $5,500,000)
Girardi = $1,500,000 (as a UFA RD)
Coburn = $1,500,000 (as a UFA LD)


Gaudreau got 6.75m... I'm sticking with 7.5m for Pointer smile
I'm sure teams will offer Strals 4m+. Tampa isn't one of those teams. Choice is simple for Strals: Try to make an extra buck elsewhere, OR stay with the top cup contender. I know what I'd pick.
Mar. 3, 2019 at 5:07 p.m.
#29
KUUUCH
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 179
Likes: 33
Quoting: pharrow
Honestly, I don't even think the tax rate matters. I mean I know it does for the player, but not in the ask. You wouldn't take less money just because someone told you the tax rate is different. If they pay someone 11 million per season, and you are up there at the same level as that player, you are going to ask for the 11 million too. Who care what the tax rate is. It's just more money for you, but it doesn't mean you would charge less for your services.
It's like buying a car. You wouldn't sell a car less in one state compared to another because of the tax. The value of the car is what it is. The player is simply a product.


Uhhhh tax rate definitely matters... That's why they call it the "tax benefit". Cap hit is what teams look at. Post tax earning are what players look at. You'd literally make more money in a smaller tax rate region.
Mar. 3, 2019 at 5:10 p.m.
#30
KUUUCH
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 179
Likes: 33
Quoting: stammerman
Cally and Stephens for a 6th... I think the Bolts would do that. Mitchel Stephens is a real good prospect but the Bolts have plenty of forward depth and no defense depth so they wouldn't want to lose Foote.


Maybe if we got a 2nd back instead of a 6th.. Absorbing 1 year on a 3rd/4th liner isn't deserving of a blue chip prospect.
Mar. 3, 2019 at 11:23 p.m.
#31
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 6,784
Likes: 1,915
in order of likelihood:
1) Callahan (will have to give up some good assets to make it happen)
2) Johnson
3) Killorn
4) Miller
5) Palat

The way I look at teams is you have a core 5 and everyone else is a secondary option that is always available for trade. If your core is as good as you think they are, they'll be able to carry the rest of the players that the cycle in. Tampa's core is Stamkos, Kucherov, Point, Hedman, Vasilevskiy. Everyone else is expendable. That's the cap world reality. I could see Point getting a 5 year deal like Matthews did, but I can't see point getting more than Stammer on that kinda deal. a 5 year, $8M per year sounds reasonable to me. 2-3 year bridge wouldn't make sense for the player with the possibility of a lockout, he'd wanna be guaranteed the money through a longer term deal with signing bonuses. & a max term deal could certainly be justified around $11M per season which Tampa can't do. (sorry Tampa fans, thats the reality of it) But the cap will be a problem for every highly competitive team, the way around it is drafting and development. Its more than doable though
Mar. 3, 2019 at 11:25 p.m.
#32
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 6,784
Likes: 1,915
Quoting: KUUUCH
I found no more than a whopping single article that semi-discusses your claim (and its Canada based). & The math and logic doesn't make sense to me. Please explain how he is taxed the same as in Tampa. Tax calculator's all say 6.2 in taxes paid for Matthews. https://gavingroup.ca/nhl-tax-calculator/


I'm pretty sure the article that was released stated that he was taxed in the American state that he resides in, so Arizona. I don't know if Arizona and Florida's taxes are the same without looking, but it is true that Matthews isn't taxed the high rate in Canada, its the lower one from Arizona
Mar. 3, 2019 at 11:40 p.m.
#33
KUUUCH
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 179
Likes: 33
Quoting: jonesryan
I'm pretty sure the article that was released stated that he was taxed in the American state that he resides in, so Arizona. I don't know if Arizona and Florida's taxes are the same without looking, but it is true that Matthews isn't taxed the high rate in Canada, its the lower one from Arizona


Yes I read that part but correct me if I'm wrong, aren't you taxed based on the region. So if Matthew's plays 73% of his games in Canada, how does he get different tax rates? Huh?
C_M_O_R liked this.
Mar. 3, 2019 at 11:45 p.m.
#34
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 6,784
Likes: 1,915
Quoting: KUUUCH
Yes I read that part but correct me if I'm wrong, aren't you taxed based on the region. So if Matthew's plays 73% of his games in Canada, how does he get different tax rates? Huh?


there's a treaty agreement between Canada and US for citizens who work in Canada but have a residential address in the states. Since Matthews is a US citizen and resides primarily in Arizona, he gets taxed differently. It's a whole lot to get into, but that's the gist of it
Mar. 4, 2019 at 12:29 a.m.
#35
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2017
Posts: 6,090
Likes: 1,640
Quoting: Hedman4Norris
well . . . his last name starts with the letter C and he is getting 4th line minutes


cedrique pacquette? smile
Mar. 4, 2019 at 12:59 a.m.
#36
KUUUCH
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 179
Likes: 33
Quoting: jonesryan
there's a treaty agreement between Canada and US for citizens who work in Canada but have a residential address in the states. Since Matthews is a US citizen and resides primarily in Arizona, he gets taxed differently. It's a whole lot to get into, but that's the gist of it


How does Matthews primarily reside in Arizona when he plays 9 months of the year in Toronto?

You're damn right it's a whole lot to get into. I just read that article again and it still makes no sense. I think it's using Canadian dollars or something, they don't add up with the official contract numbers and it's making me think it's a completely fake article (especially since I literally couldn't find any other articles talking about this). It sounds like they're saying the signing bonus is what's making it possible, but if that's true, why couldn't Tampa do the same thing and start offering contracts paid in 90% signing bonuses so they're only taxed 15% as well? It talks about players who are residents of Canada or the U.S. getting taxed on their entire salary in their home country... What about the Fins, Swedes and other foreigners?
Mar. 4, 2019 at 1:00 a.m.
#37
KUUUCH
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 179
Likes: 33
Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
cedrique pacquette? smile


Last name C, not first
Mar. 4, 2019 at 1:08 a.m.
#38
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2017
Posts: 6,090
Likes: 1,640
Quoting: KUUUCH
Last name C, not first


i was being saarcastic bud
Mar. 4, 2019 at 1:12 a.m.
#39
KUUUCH
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 179
Likes: 33
Quoting: Price_is_the_goat
i was being saarcastic bud


ha. ha.
Price_is_the_goat liked this.
Mar. 4, 2019 at 2:20 a.m.
#40
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 19,215
Likes: 4,837
Quoting: KUUUCH
Uhhhh tax rate definitely matters... That's why they call it the "tax benefit". Cap hit is what teams look at. Post tax earning are what players look at. You'd literally make more money in a smaller tax rate region.


yes, but that doesn't mean you care if the club pays you the same as other players. That's the point you aren't understanding. Like Lebron in the NBA. He didn't take a smaller salary to go to miami. He still took a max deal. You don't charge less for your service just because you pay less in taxes.
Mar. 4, 2019 at 2:48 a.m.
#41
KUUUCH
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 179
Likes: 33
Quoting: pharrow
yes, but that doesn't mean you care if the club pays you the same as other players. That's the point you aren't understanding. Like Lebron in the NBA. He didn't take a smaller salary to go to miami. He still took a max deal. You don't charge less for your service just because you pay less in taxes.


You started your response with saying yes you agree, but then you contradict yourself saying "doesn't mean you care if the club pays you the same as other players." I think I understand it just fine... Again, post tax earnings are what players look at.

And for your Lebron analogy: Boogie Cousins signed a minimum payout contract so he could play with the Warriors.
Mar. 4, 2019 at 6:07 a.m.
#42
gregb569
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 1,296
Likes: 390
Quoting: pharrow
yes, but that doesn't mean you care if the club pays you the same as other players. That's the point you aren't understanding. Like Lebron in the NBA. He didn't take a smaller salary to go to miami. He still took a max deal. You don't charge less for your service just because you pay less in taxes.


wrong tears of joy
You've heard of Steven Stamkos right? Pretty sure he took a pay cut and I can most definitely guarantee that being in Florida had something to do with that. Hockey knowledge = non existent
KUUUCH liked this.
Mar. 4, 2019 at 6:25 a.m.
#43
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 19,215
Likes: 4,837
Quoting: KUUUCH
You started your response with saying yes you agree, but then you contradict yourself saying "doesn't mean you care if the club pays you the same as other players." I think I understand it just fine... Again, post tax earnings are what players look at.

And for your Lebron analogy: Boogie Cousins signed a minimum payout contract so he could play with the Warriors.


so what does Cousins have to do with anything. He was chasing a ring. We know that has nothing to do with the tax in Cali.

I did not agree with you. Yes, the player does make money due to the lower taxes. But that doesn't mean he decreases his value.
Your decision making process is completely flawed.
It's like taking the annuity on the powerball. You just don't do it.
You don't know what the taxes will be in 20 years or 5 years for an NHL player.
Which is why you take the lump sum or you don't take less money if you are the player just because the taxes are lower.
You take your value.
Mar. 4, 2019 at 10:01 a.m.
#44
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 6,784
Likes: 1,915
Quoting: KUUUCH
How does Matthews primarily reside in Arizona when he plays 9 months of the year in Toronto?

You're damn right it's a whole lot to get into. I just read that article again and it still makes no sense. I think it's using Canadian dollars or something, they don't add up with the official contract numbers and it's making me think it's a completely fake article (especially since I literally couldn't find any other articles talking about this). It sounds like they're saying the signing bonus is what's making it possible, but if that's true, why couldn't Tampa do the same thing and start offering contracts paid in 90% signing bonuses so they're only taxed 15% as well? It talks about players who are residents of Canada or the U.S. getting taxed on their entire salary in their home country... What about the Fins, Swedes and other foreigners?


Because Matthews isn't a Canadian citizen, he's only technically in Canada on whats known as a "work visa" and he has to have an address to return to, in other words the one he has in Arizona. So he's able to be taxed at that rate because of the treaty that's signed between Canada and the USA
Mar. 4, 2019 at 3:50 p.m.
#45
KUUUCH
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 179
Likes: 33
Quoting: pharrow
so what does Cousins have to do with anything. He was chasing a ring. We know that has nothing to do with the tax in Cali.

I did not agree with you. Yes, the player does make money due to the lower taxes. But that doesn't mean he decreases his value.
Your decision making process is completely flawed.
It's like taking the annuity on the powerball. You just don't do it.
You don't know what the taxes will be in 20 years or 5 years for an NHL player.
Which is why you take the lump sum or you don't take less money if you are the player just because the taxes are lower.
You take your value.


Cousin's is relevant because his pay cut example dismantles your "Lebron analogy". Regardless if taxes were the factor or not, it proves that not every star players get the salary they deserve. Are you telling me Boogie didn't decrease his value?

History disagrees with all of your "theories".
Mar. 4, 2019 at 3:58 p.m.
#46
KUUUCH
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 179
Likes: 33
Quoting: jonesryan
Because Matthews isn't a Canadian citizen, he's only technically in Canada on whats known as a "work visa" and he has to have an address to return to, in other words the one he has in Arizona. So he's able to be taxed at that rate because of the treaty that's signed between Canada and the USA


You essentially just repeated your previous response to me... I'm not hating or demanding that you explain every detail to me, I'm just saying that article has multiple contradictions which I've yet to hear explained. If it's real, why can't anyone explain these contradictions? Why is there only a single article discussing this claim? Why does the cap friendly tax calculator & all the other tax calculators show the tax benefits for teams like Tampa? Why have the high tax rate teams been the only ones paying their star players top dollar?
Mar. 4, 2019 at 4:01 p.m.
#47
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 19,215
Likes: 4,837
Quoting: KUUUCH
Cousin's is relevant because his pay cut example dismantles your "Lebron analogy". Regardless if taxes were the factor or not, it proves that not every star players get the salary they deserve. Are you telling me Boogie didn't decrease his value?

History disagrees with all of your "theories".


yeah he signed a one year deal though. He's only there to chase a ring.
On top of it his last contract paid him 62 million over 4 years. When has point made 62 million. Like never.

The comparison does not equal out at all.
You are talking about someone already set for life chasing a ring and comparing him to a player who's been making rookie money.
Mar. 4, 2019 at 5:31 p.m.
#48
KUUUCH
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 179
Likes: 33
Quoting: pharrow
yeah he signed a one year deal though. He's only there to chase a ring.
On top of it his last contract paid him 62 million over 4 years. When has point made 62 million. Like never.

The comparison does not equal out at all.
You are talking about someone already set for life chasing a ring and comparing him to a player who's been making rookie money.


Idek what you're trying to argue anymore. Yes, I'll admit Boogie had already racked up cash before taking his cheap deal. But when has a top NHL young gun ever left his draft team to immediately look for the biggest cap hit he can find? Examples like Kessel were due to not wanting to play for that franchise, not contract disagreements. Plus Point has openly said he wants to stay in Tampa, "He loves it here."

To your original comment "especially after the Matthews contract. Don't think Point didn't notice that one"... I think we can all agree that NHL players are up to date on the other NHL contracts being signed around the league. Canadian teams paying their players more than anyone else, IS NOT NEWS. Good for them (not for their cap hits), but Pointer's focus is on the history of what TAMPA pays THEIR players, not what cap hit he might be able to score on a Canadian team...
Mar. 5, 2019 at 4:08 a.m.
#49
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 19,215
Likes: 4,837
Quoting: KUUUCH
Idek what you're trying to argue anymore. Yes, I'll admit Boogie had already racked up cash before taking his cheap deal. But when has a top NHL young gun ever left his draft team to immediately look for the biggest cap hit he can find? Examples like Kessel were due to not wanting to play for that franchise, not contract disagreements. Plus Point has openly said he wants to stay in Tampa, "He loves it here."

To your original comment "especially after the Matthews contract. Don't think Point didn't notice that one"... I think we can all agree that NHL players are up to date on the other NHL contracts being signed around the league. Canadian teams paying their players more than anyone else, IS NOT NEWS. Good for them (not for their cap hits), but Pointer's focus is on the history of what TAMPA pays THEIR players, not what cap hit he might be able to score on a Canadian team...


Points focus is like many players, on getting paid. It's a job. They have a limited amount of time to make money. Why people confuse that because they like a player is beyond me. Every athlete knows it's a cash grab. No agent is telling them to look at the Tampa history of what they pay their players. A players value is what a players value is. Regardless of taxes. If McDavid played in TB he would have still signed the largest contract ever regardless of the tax situation. Because that's his value and he was being severely underpaid as a rookie. Much like Point is. You got your bargain years in. He's proved he's worth the money.
It doesn't matter what the tax rate is. His value is his value. If he makes out better after taxes so be it. But no one knows the tax future and that's why it's bad financial advice to say he should take less because of the taxes. For all you know, he'll get slapped with a huge tax in 3 years in a state that is turning blue. Then what? He took less and pays the taxes.
What ever his value is worth he will sign for that. Much like Lebron did. Maybe after Point makes his money he will go chasing rings. But right now, he's not wealthy and he needs the contract to pay out to secure his future.
Mar. 5, 2019 at 6:55 a.m.
#50
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Aug. 2017
Posts: 1,717
Likes: 543
Quoting: KUUUCH
I found no more than a whopping single article that semi-discusses your claim (and its Canada based). & The math and logic doesn't make sense to me. Please explain how he is taxed the same as in Tampa. Tax calculator's all say 6.2 in taxes paid for Matthews. https://gavingroup.ca/nhl-tax-calculator/


Yeah I'm sure Matthews accountants are using Gavin's tax calculator to file his returns .....

He'res an "American" article from Forbes ... it clearly outlines how US born players or prior US residents (Tavares, Matthews, etc) can pay Florida tax rates.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/seanpackard/2018/07/06/john-tavares-could-save-nearly-12-million-in-taxes-on-his-new-contract/#6a0de42d1ab7

Excerpt from the article:

"Most of the time, when a player is on a good NHL team (i.e., one that goes deep into the playoffs) he is forced to become a resident of his team's town/state/country due to his extended presence there. But because so many of Tavares’ road games will be in the US, Tavares can avoid Ontario’s combined federal/provincial 53.53% tax rate by remaining a US resident.

Article XVI of the US-Canada tax treaty states that signing bonuses paid to a resident of the US by a Canadian team are taxed at 15% in Canada, and vice versa for US teams paying bonuses to Canadian residents.

Having his signing bonus taxed at the low rate of 15% in Canada ensures that Tavares would receive a full foreign tax credit on his US return for all taxes paid in Canada on both is signing bonus and his salary each season. If he plans properly, he could save over $11.7 million over the life of his contract.

Tavares is almost certainly a US tax resident and likely has been since he came to New York in 2009. In order to enjoy the full $11.7 million in tax savings he would need to maintain his residency in the US but would need to move to a tax-free state, such as Florida. This means selling his New York home and buying one in Florida.

Buying a home in Florida is not enough to become a Florida resident, especially if he is on a seven-year contract in Canada. He would need most treaty tie-breakers for residency to go to the US/Florida. Thus, he would need to avoid having a permanent abode in Canada. Simply put, he should not own real estate nor get a twelve-month lease in Toronto. Go with a nine-month lease each season. This would ensure that he would pay the 37% US federal rate on his signing bonus instead of Ontario’s 53.53%."

This took 10 seconds to find ... you suck at research.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll