your right lol

You need to realize that Leafs fans don’t understand that D is a necessity if you actually want to compete. They refuse to move anyone of value to improve that position. They also overvalue their players massively. They think Kapanen is worth Pesce straight up.

Sounds about right lol. So as a non-Leafs fan what do you think of these moves?

It definitely makes their D way better but they are also much weaker on the wings now. I guess it depends if Bracco can make the jump.

I think Bracco is more than ready, considering he's been a better point producer in the AHL than Kapanen was before he made the full time jump this season.

You see what Vortex posted? He's got Marner, Kapanen and Johnsson altogether signing for less than 15 mill lol.

It's more that non-leafs fans constantly think leafs fans overvalue their players when they don't always. Kapanen and a 2nd round pick is pretty fair for a Pesce. & it's also that everyone seems to think that Nylander is basically useless when if you actually watch the games, you'd see how he's progressed. Nylander for Pesce is a massive overpayment for Toronto. That's very similar to a Hall for Larsson 2.0. It's a brutal offer

I think Kapanen and a 2nd for Pesce is fair but it doesn't help the cap situation whatsoever.

Also Pesce is better than Larsson was and Hall was and is better than Nylander and was on a better contract. So comparing the 2 trades is ridiculous. Also Gauthier is part of the trade and he isn't exactly a bargain bin throw in.

Thanks for proving my point. Comparing Nylander to Hall is laughable.

I'm pretty sure CAR would decline that one. They value Pesce quite much.

Yeah I think they value Nylander quite a bit too. Have to give to receive.

I agree. Somehow I just get this nagging feeling that they value Pesce over Nylander. I mean, Pesce is a defensive D-man with more goals and points than Nylander. I get that Nylander has played less games, but considering his linemates in full offense team like TOR is just disappointing.

It comes down to who has a higher ceiling and team needs. The Canes are stacked on the back end but lack offence and the Leafs are stacked on Offence and lack defense. Canes have cap space and the Leafs do not. Nylander is younger and has more potential but comes at a higher cap hit. To me this trade just makes sense for both teams.

Tbh I like both trades and think they’re fair and make sense

Can you not read kid? Not once did I compare or say Nylander was as good as Hall. I said the trade of Nylander for Pesce is similar to a Hall for Larsson. Both trades involve trading elite young forwards who have had some struggles for a similar aged defensive d-man due to positional needs. Hall happened to explode when he was traded and win an MVP. How has that deal worked out for Edmonton? The fact is, offensive skill is way more valuable than a defensive d-man. Nylander could easily be over a PPG in Carolina because he would have the puck more as one of the go to forwards there, where as in Toronto he's arguably the 4th or 5th player to have the puck. The more touches he gets, the more points he'd get.

But if you wanna compare, let's compare with facts:
Hall struggled to produce offensively in Edmonton, he was frequently a 50-60 point player, with 1 season hitting 80 points. He even played with McDavid 1 season and only put up 65 points. Nylander is right on the same path. Having 2 60 point seasons already, and this year if he would have played a full season at his current pace, he'd be around 40 points (Hall had a season of 40 points too, so chill on saying Nylander sucks for this year after only 5 months of playing). Nylander has done all that on a roster that has more talented guys than him that get the puck more. Once Hall was traded, he exploded because he got the puck more. Nylander has the same ability to do so if he was moved.
Pesce and Larsson are both defensive guys. Both won't score too many points, nor will they ever even compete for a Norris trophy.

The deals are very similar straight up. & that's what I said. Now I've actually compared Nylander to Hall. & I'm not saying Nylander is as good as Hall or that he'll be winning an MVP anytime soon. But if he was moved to a team where he was the go to offensive guy, he'd produced a hell of a lot more and closer to his potential, the same as Hall did when he was traded to New Jersey. & if you deny it any of this, it's cause you're a Leafs hater or don't know hockey. These were all facts so you can't really argue them

@jonesryan I got to the part where you called Nylander “elite” and stopped. He is 100% not elite.

Lol. Shows how much you don't know about hockey then kid.

So 60 point players are now elite eh? Couldn’t possibly be that you are massively overvaluing a Leafs player...no not possible ?

Taylor Hall:
first season: 0.646PPG - 53points over 82 games
Second season: 0.868PPG - 71points over 82 games

William Nylander: (not including his 22 game stint)
first season: 61 points in 81 games
Second seasons: 61 points in 82 games

Over a full 82 game season for their first 2 seasons that's Hall having 124 points and Nylander having 122 points.. not much difference eh?

Point is, guys develop. 60 points was a rookie and sophomore year for Nylander. He's going to continue to develop and get better. Could very easily be over a PPG next season. Things aren't all about the points you see just for one season. Nylander's trajectory is similar to Hall's. Nylander is 5 years younger than Hall. So if you consider Hall elite. Yes. Nylander is elite. He's on the SAME path as Hall.

Learn some hockey. Seriously.

Wow bud. Just because a guy has the same stats over x period doesn’t mean they are going to be the same player. Nylander will NEVER win the Hart.

You are the one who doesn’t know hockey. Your arguments are asinine. No wonder I have seen other people calling you a donkey.

LOL seriously, learn to read kid. I literally said I didn't expect Nylander to win a Hart Trophy. I said he's more than capable of putting up the same kinda points as Hall did. A Hart Trophy isn't just based on points. LMAO.. learn to read. learn something about hockey. just learn anything. with your stupidity it would be beneficial for you to do something useful.

We also have quite a few 1st and 2nd round pick prospects in the ahl/khl/ohl and ncaa. I think what a lot of leafs fans agree on is trying to keep as much young talent together on the offence as we move forward. Yes our D might be weaker but our cap situation opens up after next season and we will have young players moving in on D. Trading for two defensive rhd may not be the best long term move. Picking up a player like pesce to me seems reasonable. Personally I would move nylander for pesce and foegele. Helps leafs cap and after his bonus is paid it offers the canes a cheap young centre or winger and clears up a log jam at rhd.

A simple comparison of nylander and Hall through their first 3 seasons shows how close they are.

Its Nylander ++ to get Pesce... not other way
TML..... smh

this is one of the most reasonable armchair GMs I have seen of the leafs. So I guess that's why their fans would hate this one, but it greatly improves their team.

While I do agree the Leafs have some young defensemen coming up the pipeline I still think the right side is a couple years off. If they think a young guy like Rosen or Sandin is ready to jump into the top 4 in 2020 then let Muzzin walk. The Edm deal is to use Kapanen who the Leafs can't afford to sign anyway to upgrade Zaitsev with Larsson which is huge and on a better contract.

I truly believe the Leafs have a contender next year with this top 4 defense and that's coming from a Habs fan.