Forums/Toronto Maple Leafs

How much is a 1year marner deal i did nothing else

Apr 13 at 9:34
#1
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Edited Apr 13 at 12:09 by Banks
1 year $8M
Apr 13 at 9:36
#2
Bcarlo25
Joined: May 2018
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I think that's about right. between 7-8
Apr 13 at 9:42
#3
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Quoting: Bcarlo25
I think that's about right. between 7-8


*facepalm*
Apr 13 at 9:46
#4
Joined: Jan 2019
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Why would he actually sign for 1 year? Normally I think offer sheets are a joke but this is a special circumstance where there are a few good young teams with cap space and an offer sheet is potentially a threat with marner if the leafs aren’t careful.
blowing_the_zone liked this.
Apr 13 at 10:09
#5
DomCholette
Joined: Jul 2017
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If they have a good playoff run... I could see Marner going as cheap for a one year deal... and sign in 2020 for 8yx11M as Toronto would have enough cap space
Apr 13 at 10:17
#6
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
Joined: Jul 2016
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Yes, give him one year and then he would have arbitration right and desire for more money because he IS going to replicate this season.. Congrats I guess. Marner should get around 10 on 6-7 yr deal and it would be a steal in like a year..
Apr 13 at 10:24
#7
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Quoting: Bcarlo25
I think that's about right. between 7-8


Quoting: Laudan
*facepalm*


Quoting: MJ87
Why would he actually sign for 1 year? Normally I think offer sheets are a joke but this is a special circumstance where there are a few good young teams with cap space and an offer sheet is potentially a threat with marner if the leafs aren’t careful.


Quoting: SammyT_51
Yes, give him one year and then he would have arbitration right and desire for more money because he IS going to replicate this season.. Congrats I guess. Marner should get around 10 on 6-7 yr deal and it would be a steal in like a year..


Who are you all BSing.

A 1 year deal would probably cost 20 million.
No way in hell he goes out there and risks injury killing his chance at a big contract for 8 million. You are high as a kite if you think that mess.

He's getting at least 11 million a year for a minimum of 5 years. Bare minimum.
Toronto's GM is an idiot who doesn't know how to negotiate a deal. That's been proven over and over again. Who the hell signs Matthews for 5 years. He's an idiot.
Apr 13 at 10:38
#8
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
Joined: Jul 2016
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Quoting: pharrow
Who are you all BSing.

A 1 year deal would probably cost 20 million.
No way in hell he goes out there and risks injury killing his chance at a big contract for 8 million. You are high as a kite if you think that mess.

He's getting at least 11 million a year for a minimum of 5 years. Bare minimum.
Toronto's GM is an idiot who doesn't know how to negotiate a deal. That's been proven over and over again. Who the hell signs Matthews for 5 years. He's an idiot.


Marner is worth 10-10.5x6-7 and one year deal is total BS. I think you would do a much better job of signing key pieces to deals they deserve and signing depth players for nothing.. lol Dubas is no idiot.. Nylander at 6.9 is going to be a steal. Matthews got what he deserved. Or what should he gotten? 9? Are you ****ing kidding me.. you pay your best players and its good problem to have many good players to pay.. Tavares deserves every single bit of 11mil he got. And whatever Marner gets, he is going to deserve that. Why 5 years? Because logic.. 8yr deal for Matthews would be close to 13mil.. save as much as possible and in 5yrs when salary cap would be whatever higher pay him then on longterm deal. In terms of years on contract I see 3-5-8-3 and end of career as 38yr old if he is lucky is what I see with Auston. He signs for basically same cap percentage as Malkin did before 14-15 when he signed his 8yr deal. His 5yr deal was higher percentage even.. is anybody complaining about Malkin? No.
Apr 13 at 10:51
#9
Joined: Jul 2018
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Edited Apr 13 at 10:59
Quoting: SammyT_51
Matthews got what he deserved. Or what should he gotten? 9? Are you ****ing kidding me.. you pay your best players and its good problem to have many good players to pay.. Why 5 years? Because logic.. 8yr deal for Matthews would be close to 13mil.. save as much as possible and in 5yrs when salary cap would be whatever higher pay him then on longterm deal. In terms of years on contract I see 3-5-8-3 and end of career as 38yr old if he is lucky is what I see with Auston. He signs for basically same cap percentage as Malkin did before 14-15 when he signed his 8yr deal. His 5yr deal was higher percentage even.. is anybody complaining about Malkin? No.


So Matthews should be 8 x 13M on top of 63 and 69 seasons ? In that case each year from 6 to 8 would earn him 400k rise ? And 8 x 13M is McDavids equivalent of contract for 2018/2019. And i guess we can all agree Matthews is one level lower as McDavid is.

Malkin ? 50 + 59 = 109, got it ? Seasons like that brings you good "percentage" for contract and thats on 8y span.

Actually for the first time since im here i can agree with pharrow....Dubas has no clue how to handle big contracts.
capsin9 liked this.
Apr 13 at 11:00
#10
Joined: Apr 2018
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Quoting: pharrow
Who are you all BSing.

A 1 year deal would probably cost 20 million.
No way in hell he goes out there and risks injury killing his chance at a big contract for 8 million. You are high as a kite if you think that mess.

He's getting at least 11 million a year for a minimum of 5 years. Bare minimum.
Toronto's GM is an idiot who doesn't know how to negotiate a deal. That's been proven over and over again. Who the hell signs Matthews for 5 years. He's an idiot.


Quoting: SammyT_51
Marner is worth 10-10.5x6-7 and one year deal is total BS. I think you would do a much better job of signing key pieces to deals they deserve and signing depth players for nothing.. lol Dubas is no idiot.. Nylander at 6.9 is going to be a steal. Matthews got what he deserved. Or what should he gotten? 9? Are you ****ing kidding me.. you pay your best players and its good problem to have many good players to pay.. Tavares deserves every single bit of 11mil he got. And whatever Marner gets, he is going to deserve that. Why 5 years? Because logic.. 8yr deal for Matthews would be close to 13mil.. save as much as possible and in 5yrs when salary cap would be whatever higher pay him then on longterm deal. In terms of years on contract I see 3-5-8-3 and end of career as 38yr old if he is lucky is what I see with Auston. He signs for basically same cap percentage as Malkin did before 14-15 when he signed his 8yr deal. His 5yr deal was higher percentage even.. is anybody complaining about Malkin? No.


Marner shouldn’t take a penny less than Matthews and imo if Tml offer him a 1 year deal and az( example) offers him 13x8 where do you think he’s going

Leafs have overpaid Matthews and nylander why not Marner. They had to pay jt hard to critique that one

Mathews is worth eichel money not mcdavid. Main reason he’s closer to eichel that he is mcdavid.

Nylander is worth 5 million? Maybe.....?

Marner is the only guy I can actually say is worth 11-12 million
Apr 13 at 11:03
#11
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
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Quoting: Laudan
So Matthews should be 8 x 13M on top of 63 and 69 seasons ? In that case each year from 6 to 8 would earn him 400k rise ? And 8 x 13M is McDavids equivalent of contract for 2018/2019. And i guess we can all agree Matthews is one level lower as McDavid is.

Actually for the first time since im here i can agree with pharrow....Dubas has no clue how to handle big contracts.


Of course he is level lower of McDavid. And he should not be given 13mil.. I never said he should be paid 8x13.. he did not deserve that. 63 and 73 point seasons in what amount of games? I guess he deserved 11.634 or what he is getting.. No way in hell he should be given McDavid equivalent. This would be closer to what Malkin got after his ELC and they are pretty similar players in terms of impact and playing style.
Apr 13 at 11:10
#12
Joined: Jun 2018
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Quoting: SammyT_51
Marner is worth 10-10.5x6-7 and one year deal is total BS. I think you would do a much better job of signing key pieces to deals they deserve and signing depth players for nothing.. lol Dubas is no idiot.. Nylander at 6.9 is going to be a steal. Matthews got what he deserved. Or what should he gotten? 9? Are you ****ing kidding me.. you pay your best players and its good problem to have many good players to pay.. Tavares deserves every single bit of 11mil he got. And whatever Marner gets, he is going to deserve that. Why 5 years? Because logic.. 8yr deal for Matthews would be close to 13mil.. save as much as possible and in 5yrs when salary cap would be whatever higher pay him then on longterm deal. In terms of years on contract I see 3-5-8-3 and end of career as 38yr old if he is lucky is what I see with Auston. He signs for basically same cap percentage as Malkin did before 14-15 when he signed his 8yr deal. His 5yr deal was higher percentage even.. is anybody complaining about Malkin? No.


The problem with the Matthews deal was it was 5 years. That cap hit needs to extend 8 years.

Comparing him to Malkin is a joke. A. Malkin won a cup before he signed and played in 2 SCF. B. The NHL they came up in is much different than the NHL today. There is no way you will see Matthews play till he's 38. The odds of that happening are slim to none. The game has changed and it keeps getting younger. In 10 years I don't think you are going to be seeing any 38 year old players on the ice. Not even ones like Matthews. If he is playing it's some low money deal to play 3rd line minutes in hopes of getting another cup.
Apr 13 at 11:15
#13
Joined: Jul 2018
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Quoting: SammyT_51
Of course he is level lower of McDavid. And he should not be given 13mil.. I never said he should be paid 8x13.. he did not deserve that. 63 and 73 point seasons in what amount of games? I guess he deserved 11.634 or what he is getting.. No way in hell he should be given McDavid equivalent.


Ok. We agree on that part. If you check the breakdown of numbers i made in similar thread, you can figure he actually got paid more then McDavid.

Quoting: Laudan


MATTHEWS ( major fail )

in my books 7 x 11M cause 69 + 63 + "75" and riding on hype ( otherwise points-contribution would make him 8M max )

Lets say for the sake of argument Matthews is as good as McDavid ( he isnt, but still )

McDavid signed 8 x 12,5M in 2017, which would be 13,7M in 2018 with Cap raise ( 6% ) and rounded to 10% cause of "inflation".

8 x 13,7M
7 x 12,5M
6 x 11,3M
5 x 10,1M

The above should be logical descending contracts for Matthews ofc after he would score 100 points in his second season and rolling another 100 this season. You can figure the overpayment in $$ / years of contract by yourself. Maybe not even a tragedy if it wouldnt make precedens for all the other contracts to be signed.

Two other names come to mind ....Draisaitl and Eichel, both marked as centers, both signed 2017-2018, both considered overpayment... so ideal comparables to Matthews

Draisaitl.............51 + 77...............8 x 8,5M ( 128 points in first two seasons, 217 with third ).........again if he would sign in 2018 with same stats, it would be 8 x 9,4M..........so 5 x 6,5M ( on spot )
Eichel.................56 + 57...............8 x 10M ( 113 points in first two seasons, 185 with third ).............again if he would sign in 2018 with same stats, it would be 8 x 11M..........so 5 x 8M ( overpayment )
Matthews..........63 + 69...............5 x 11,6M ( 132 points in first two seasons, 195 with third )

2M overpayment on this if Matthews would be McDavid's level and what i can read from this contract is he is the greedy one ( not Nylander ) and wants to hit UFA asap and move to whoever gives him more.....so another minus from me on his account from TML fan perspective

After those 5x 11,634M Chiarelli looks like genius with McDavid and Draisaitl 8y contracts......

Or if we reverse Matthews contract into McDavid :

Matthews

5 x 11,634
6 x 12,734
7 x 13,834
8 x 14,934

McDavid

8 x 13,7 if signed in summer 2018 ( 10% of rise for cap and "inflation" )

i hope im making it clear enough where i am coming from / going to .
Apr 13 at 11:16
#14
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
Joined: Jul 2016
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Quoting: pharrow
The problem with the Matthews deal was it was 5 years. That cap hit needs to extend 8 years.

Comparing him to Malkin is a joke. A. Malkin won a cup before he signed and played in 2 SCF. B. The NHL they came up in is much different than the NHL today. There is no way you will see Matthews play till he's 38. The odds of that happening are slim to none. The game has changed and it keeps getting younger. In 10 years I don't think you are going to be seeing any 38 year old players on the ice. Not even ones like Matthews. If he is playing it's some low money deal to play 3rd line minutes in hopes of getting another cup.


I agree on the lenght.

I dont compare his abilities to Malkin. Just in terms of style and how he handles the puck and impact. He is not better than Geno.. he might be! But he is not now. He might play till 38 but as I said he would be very lucky if he is. I can see in 10 yrs players who play as 35-36yr olds as guys who are in their 40s now.
blowing_the_zone liked this.
Apr 13 at 11:18
#15
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
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Quoting: Laudan
Ok. We agree on that part. If you check the breakdown of numbers i made in similar thread, you can figure he actually got paid more then McDavid.


Yeah, saw that. Thats about right. And throughout his career Matthews will make more than McDavid even tho McD has higher cap hit because in 5yrs he would get another huge contract so in terms of that.. he would get more money than Connor. But.. imagine the endorsements if McD desides to sign in 8yrs in Toronto looool
Apr 13 at 11:25
#16
Bcarlo25
Joined: May 2018
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Quoting: Laudan
So Matthews should be 8 x 13M on top of 63 and 69 seasons ? In that case each year from 6 to 8 would earn him 400k rise ? And 8 x 13M is McDavids equivalent of contract for 2018/2019. And i guess we can all agree Matthews is one level lower as McDavid is.

Malkin ? 50 + 59 = 109, got it ? Seasons like that brings you good "percentage" for contract and thats on 8y span.

Actually for the first time since im here i can agree with pharrow....Dubas has no clue how to handle big contracts.


Matthews reporter price for 8 years was 13.8 million
Apr 13 at 12:07
#17
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Quoting: capsin9
Marner shouldn’t take a penny less than Matthews and imo if Tml offer him a 1 year deal and az( example) offers him 13x8 where do you think he’s going

Leafs have overpaid Matthews and nylander why not Marner. They had to pay jt hard to critique that one

Mathews is worth eichel money not mcdavid. Main reason he’s closer to eichel that he is mcdavid.

Nylander is worth 5 million? Maybe.....?

Marner is the only guy I can actually say is worth 11-12 million


If Marner walks off to Arizona for 13M it would say alot about who he is and what drives his decision making. I'd actually like to see that scenario present itself just to see how it plays out.. my guess is that money is important to everyone, but its not the only item that factors into the decision making process.

At a certain point money isn't so much about getting paid.. it becomes mostly about ego. Does Marner and company have massive ego issues and a Napoleon complex? Maybe. But I haven't seen that from the dude yet in terms of how he carries himself. .

A deal will get done that makes sense for both sides. That's my take.. but I'm not so good at predicting the future, so who knows??
Apr 13 at 12:36
#18
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Quoting: blowing_the_zone
If Marner walks off to Arizona for 13M it would say alot about who he is and what drives his decision making. I'd actually like to see that scenario present itself just to see how it plays out.. my guess is that money is important to everyone, but its not the only item that factors into the decision making process.

At a certain point money isn't so much about getting paid.. it becomes mostly about ego. Does Marner and company have massive ego issues and a Napoleon complex? Maybe. But I haven't seen that from the dude yet in terms of how he carries himself. .

A deal will get done that makes sense for both sides. That's my take.. but I'm not so good at predicting the future, so who knows??


I mean I get what you are saying. is it really an ego thing when your peer is making 11.5 million......who you have consistently out preformed , and they are trying to offer you less money?

IMO it’s disrespectful to offer him any less than Matthews. Look at toews and Kane. They gave them the exact same contracts..... Toronto might have to do the same thing.

They overpaid Matthews for god knows what reason. Marner is better and they want to pay him less..... seems like the leaf fans want him to do them a favor and if he doesn’t then he’s greedy.
Apr 13 at 1:19
#19
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Quoting: capsin9
I mean I get what you are saying. is it really an ego thing when your peer is making 11.5 million......who you have consistently out preformed , and they are trying to offer you less money?

IMO it’s disrespectful to offer him any less than Matthews. Look at toews and Kane. They gave them the exact same contracts..... Toronto might have to do the same thing.

They overpaid Matthews for god knows what reason. Marner is better and they want to pay him less..... seems like the leaf fans want him to do them a favor and if he doesn’t then he’s greedy.


I don't know if leafs fans are looking for Marner to do them a favour at all. Mitch has every right to ask for the league max if that's what he thinks he worth. But it doesn't mean the leafs think he's worth that, or that they think they'd be a better team if they paid him that. Unfortunately, that's the reality of the cap system and the leafs cap structure.

I think it really just comes down to negotiations 101. Two sides present their case, they meet in the middle or they go their separate ways. If they can't compromise and meet in the middle then 9 times outta 10 the issues are deeper than money, imo. And if that's the case then I would most certainly say ego factors into that.. but like I said, I don't think that's what entirely drives marner. You can almost see the joy that he has on his face for the game..

Is it an insult to offer Marner a comparable contract to Kucherov? I don't think anyone can realistically suggest that it is. And if Marner and camp is insulted by a Kucherov contract, then I think the leafs have every right to tell Mitch to go sign his favourite offer sheet, collect the four 1sts, wish Marner the best in life, and then go their separate ways.
Apr 13 at 1:27
#20
Joined: May 2018
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Quoting: pharrow
Who are you all BSing.

A 1 year deal would probably cost 20 million.
No way in hell he goes out there and risks injury killing his chance at a big contract for 8 million. You are high as a kite if you think that mess.

He's getting at least 11 million a year for a minimum of 5 years. Bare minimum.
Toronto's GM is an idiot who doesn't know how to negotiate a deal. That's been proven over and over again. Who the hell signs Matthews for 5 years. He's an idiot.


Dubas could be alot of things, but I highly doubt he is an idiot. You just don't get the gig that he has at his age by being an idiot.
Apr 13 at 1:33
#21
Joined: Apr 2018
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Quoting: blowing_the_zone
I don't know if leafs fans are looking for Marner to do them a favour at all. Mitch has every right to ask for the league max if that's what he thinks he worth. But it doesn't mean the leafs think he's worth that, or that they think they'd be a better team if they paid him that. Unfortunately, that's the reality of the cap system and the leafs cap structure.

I think it really just comes down to negotiations 101. Two sides present their case, they meet in the middle or they go their separate ways. If they can't compromise and meet in the middle then 9 times outta 10 the issues are deeper than money, imo. And if that's the case then I would most certainly say ego factors into that.. but like I said, I don't think that's what entirely drives marner. You can almost see the joy that he has on his face for the game..

Is it an insult to offer Marner a comparable contract to Kucherov? I don't think anyone can realistically suggest that it is. And if Marner and camp is insulted by a Kucherov contract, then I think the leafs have every right to tell Mitch to go sign his favourite offer sheet, collect the four 1sts, wish Marner the best in life, and then go their separate ways.


Okay kucherov 36.37% of his salary bc of no state tax/city rate

So Toronto tax rate is 52.85%

Difference would be 16.48%

So kucherovs 9.5 million would be 11 million in Toronto

So yeah offer him the “same” money in Toronto. Taxes suck but it allows you to pay kucherov 9.5 instead of 11.

Facts are facts

Also look in house

Kucherov stamkos

Matthews Marner

Stammer took a discount kuch took a discount

Matthews took a overpayment .....Marner ???
Apr 13 at 1:37
#22
Joined: May 2018
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Quoting: capsin9
Okay kucherov 36.37% of his salary bc of no state tax/city rate

So Toronto tax rate is 52.85%

Difference would be 16.48%

So kucherovs 9.5 million would be 11 million in Toronto

So yeah offer him the “same” money in Toronto. Taxes suck but it allows you to pay kucherov 9.5 instead of 11.

Facts are facts


Or.. Marner lives in Canada, spends the majority of his coin in Canada, but gets paid in USD. At today's exchange rate 9.5M USD is 12.67M CDN.. even better than 11M! He should take less than 9.5M just so its fair.. wink
Apr 13 at 1:47
#23
Joined: Apr 2018
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Quoting: blowing_the_zone
Or.. Marner lives in Canada, spends the majority of his coin in Canada, but gets paid in USD. At today's exchange rate 9.5M USD is 12.67M CDN.. even better than 11M! He should take less than 9.5M just so its fair.. wink


Or he takes the 11m + that Matthews is making since he’s the better player.

Also that 12.67 is taxed by 52.85% so again your point is inaccurate and pointless.
Apr 13 at 1:59
#24
Joined: May 2018
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Quoting: capsin9
Or he takes the 11m + that Matthews is making since he’s the better player.

Also that 12.67 is taxed by 52.85% so again your point is inaccurate and pointless.


Nah, man. I don't think so.. I think the media generated narrative on the tax benefits that some teams enjoy over others is highly, HIGHLY, simplified in order for them to distill what they think is a good soundbite and get it into a text. However, if you're a CPA feel free to educate me on all the nuances of the tax code.

as for the Marner is a better player than Matthews thingy you keep posting, all I can say is a disagree. They're both great players but the value and ceiling is higher on Matthews, imo. And my guess is that most GMs would likely agree with that, which is why the risk of an OS was probably very real for AM. Maybe it is for Marner too.. who knows? All I;m saying is that if Marner wants that kinda of coin and he can get it from an OS, then he should sign it and walk if that's what's really motivating him.. and I truly believe the Leafs would be a better team in collecting the 4 firsts, using the budgetted money for Marner on other assets, balance the roster and keep moving forward. Without a doubt, no one player's demands are more important than team success.

BUT... like I stated in my first post on this, i doubt any of that happens, that a deal gets done that works for both sides, and Bob's your uncle.
Apr 13 at 2:43
#25
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,314
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Quoting: blowing_the_zone
Nah, man. I don't think so.. I think the media generated narrative on the tax benefits that some teams enjoy over others is highly, HIGHLY, simplified in order for them to distill what they think is a good soundbite and get it into a text. However, if you're a CPA feel free to educate me on all the nuances of the tax code.

as for the Marner is a better player than Matthews thingy you keep posting, all I can say is a disagree. They're both great players but the value and ceiling is higher on Matthews, imo. And my guess is that most GMs would likely agree with that, which is why the risk of an OS was probably very real for AM. Maybe it is for Marner too.. who knows? All I;m saying is that if Marner wants that kinda of coin and he can get it from an OS, then he should sign it and walk if that's what's really motivating him.. and I truly believe the Leafs would be a better team in collecting the 4 firsts, using the budgetted money for Marner on other assets, balance the roster and keep moving forward. Without a doubt, no one player's demands are more important than team success.

BUT... like I stated in my first post on this, i doubt any of that happens, that a deal gets done that works for both sides, and Bob's your uncle.


I mean I think I was pretty clear on how tax benefits depending on the area? Tampa players make 16.5% more of their money than a player in Toronto. That varies depending on where you play but 16.5% is a pretty significant amount of money? I’m not a cpa just using common sense.... paying less of a % in taxes = more money.

Example... what leaves you with more money haha

if I give you 100$ and take 50%
Or
If I give you 80$ and taking 30%?

But you say you disagree but after 3 years Marner has outperformed Matthews......? If you think Matthews is better the margins can’t be that major that you think Marner is taking 2.5-3 million$ Less.

A deal will get done also soon and no one but him knows what he’s going to accept but tml aren’t better with 4 1st than an established top 20 player. That’s silly. And toms you dad
 
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