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Det - Chi draft trade

Created by: Drw4209
Team: 2018-19 Detroit Red Wings
Initial Creation Date: Apr. 14, 2019
Published: Apr. 14, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
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I know Hawks may consider Byram at 3 but if they decided to go F, Wings would love to move up for him. Would CHI be willing to move down 3 spots knowing they could still get one of Turcotte, Cozens, Dach or even Podkolzin?
Trades
DET
  1. 2019 1st round pick (CHI)
CHI
  1. 2019 1st round pick (DET)
  2. 2019 2nd round pick (NYI)
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2019
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25$79,500,000$80,429,543$755,000$962,500-$929,543
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C
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$1,400,000$1,400,000
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C, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 4
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$925,000$925,000
LW
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$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
LW, RW
UFA - 2
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$900,000$900,000
C, LW
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Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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LD
NTC
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$2,687,500$2,687,500
RD
NTC
UFA - 2
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G
UFA - 1
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$4,750,000$4,750,000
LD
M-NTC
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RD
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G
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LD
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Apr. 14, 2019 at 12:51 p.m.
#1
exo2769
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This just isnt in the realm of close enough to move up to the #3 OA. There's a TON of data to show DET would basically have to give their entire draft (maybe more in all honesty) to move up to #3.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:09 p.m.
#2
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Quoting: exo2769
This just isnt in the realm of close enough to move up to the #3 OA. There's a TON of data to show DET would basically have to give their entire draft (maybe more in all honesty) to move up to #3.


This is not close to reality actually. According to EVERY NHL Draft Track value chart out there, the 3rd pick is worth anywhere between 13-15 points more than the 6th pick. To make up the 15 points (using the high end of the scale), they would need to give up the 35th pick (worth around 11 points, using the low end), and the 57th pick (worth about 4 points on the low end). So, it would be the 6th, 35th, and 57th for the 3rd pick. It's not their entire draft.

That being said, no way KH (and it will be KH, unless Tampa releases Stevie early, which I don't see them doing) trades multiple shots of success to move up for a dman. DET needs Cs as well, and there will be a number of them at 6 to choose from that would fit the mold (Turcotte, or even either of the righties Dach or Cozens, and DET needs right handed Cs). Byram isn't that much better than the Cs (and is many arguments, isn't better than Turcotte, Cozens, or Dach, depending on the evaluator).

The funny thing is, Chicago needs Cs as well (can't go forever with Towes, and all of CHIs best prospects are Dman with Henri, Beaudin, and Boqvist) as does Colorado (Makar, Timmins, Girard, and Meloche are all dman, but outside of Kaut, who does COL got as Fs). LA just needs talent, so they'll draft the BPA. If Podkolzin was available at 6, KH could realistically trade down (EDM, PHI, would be of interest) and pick up picks to get to the next level (with EDM pick being the target to still secure a top C while EDM would draft Podkolzin).
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:15 p.m.
#3
exo2769
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Edited Apr. 15, 2019 at 4:48 p.m.
Quoting: TMarch
This is not close to reality actually. According to EVERY NHL Draft Track value chart out there, the 3rd pick is worth anywhere between 13-15 points more than the 6th pick. To make up the 15 points (using the high end of the scale), they would need to give up the 35th pick (worth around 11 points, using the low end), and the 57th pick (worth about 4 points on the low end). So, it would be the 6th, 35th, and 57th for the 3rd pick. It's not their entire draft.

That being said, no way KH (and it will be KH, unless Tampa releases Stevie early, which I don't see them doing) trades multiple shots of success to move up for a dman. DET needs Cs as well, and there will be a number of them at 6 to choose from that would fit the mold (Turcotte, or even either of the righties Dach or Cozens, and DET needs right handed Cs). Byram isn't that much better than the Cs (and is many arguments, isn't better than Turcotte, Cozens, or Dach, depending on the evaluator).

The funny thing is, Chicago needs Cs as well (can't go forever with Towes, and all of CHIs best prospects are Dman with Henri, Beaudin, and Boqvist) as does Colorado (Makar, Timmins, Girard, and Meloche are all dman, but outside of Kaut, who does COL got as Fs). LA just needs talent, so they'll draft the BPA. If Podkolzin was available at 6, KH could realistically trade down (EDM, PHI, would be of interest) and pick up picks to get to the next level (with EDM pick being the target to still secure a top C while EDM would draft Podkolzin).


I agree and also disagree. History shows what it would take...BUT there isn't a true comp. Picks 3rd round and after dont really add much to this kind of trade.

Quoting: exo2769
I'm not a fan for a couple of reasons. A.) If it's determine Vasili isn't North America Bound...then to me the #6 pick is within 3rd tier talent. Hughes/Kappo...then Vasili/Byram/Cozens/Dach...then the Turcottes/Zegras/etc... So until I hear Vaili's North America bound. the #6 is a tough pill to swallow for me.

BUT more importantly is B.) There's TONs of data to show what trade value needs to be for moving up in the draft. Literally dozens of trades to review. This value isn't close to enough.

Trying to filter top 10 picks only...and picks for picks only

Logan Couture #9 for #13, #44, & #87
Luke Schenn #5 for #7, #37, & #68
Colin Wilson #7 for #9 and #40

So to jump up 3 spots in the draft from #6 to #3...it'll take something more like #6, #35, and #58...Something very close to the Luke Schnn trade, but honestly it would take MORE since it's the #3 OA vs #5OA AND it's jumping up 3 slots vs 2 slots. So start thinking picks from multiple years. The #6, #37, #58 and 2nd rounder next year...Or #6 and 1st next year.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:20 p.m.
#4
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Detroit would have to do better which means the Detroit 2nd round pick not the NYI pick. That said, doubt Detroit would move up due to so much need. Someone like Edmonton or Anaheim could be a trade partner to move up or LA if they have their eyes set on Podkozlin.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:24 p.m.
#5
ChiHawks34
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That is probably one of the worst offers I’ve ever seen on this website. This is so far away from what the real price would be that it’s not even funny. Detroit has nothing to give up that the hawks or any team in top 5 will accept
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:26 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: exo2769
This just isnt in the realm of close enough to move up to the #3 OA. There's a TON of data to show DET would basically have to give their entire draft (maybe more in all honesty) to move up to #3.


No that's about the price it would cost perhaps another small add if anything, whether it's enough for CHI in particular that's another question. Seems the vast majority of scouts agree the difference between the prospects in the 3-10 range is basically none. Det just prefers the high end D to another high end F and will pay a solid asset to ensure that.



Quoting: TMarch
This is not close to reality actually. According to EVERY NHL Draft Track value chart out there, the 3rd pick is worth anywhere between 13-15 points more than the 6th pick. To make up the 15 points (using the high end of the scale), they would need to give up the 35th pick (worth around 11 points, using the low end), and the 57th pick (worth about 4 points on the low end). So, it would be the 6th, 35th, and 57th for the 3rd pick. It's not their entire draft.

That being said, no way KH (and it will be KH, unless Tampa releases Stevie early, which I don't see them doing) trades multiple shots of success to move up for a dman. DET needs Cs as well, and there will be a number of them at 6 to choose from that would fit the mold (Turcotte, or even either of the righties Dach or Cozens, and DET needs right handed Cs). Byram isn't that much better than the Cs (and is many arguments, isn't better than Turcotte, Cozens, or Dach, depending on the evaluator).

The funny thing is, Chicago needs Cs as well (can't go forever with Towes, and all of CHIs best prospects are Dman with Henri, Beaudin, and Boqvist) as does Colorado (Makar, Timmins, Girard, and Meloche are all dman, but outside of Kaut, who does COL got as Fs). LA just needs talent, so they'll draft the BPA. If Podkolzin was available at 6, KH could realistically trade down (EDM, PHI, would be of interest) and pick up picks to get to the next level (with EDM pick being the target to still secure a top C while EDM would draft Podkolzin).


The Wings need a top pairing LHD to pair with Hronek. Cholowski looks more like a 2nd pair guy, McIsaac probably closer to that as well. Byram is the best D in the draft and exactly what Detroit needs atp. If I only have to give up one late 2nd, while I still have 2 2nd's remaining, I'm doing that. Despite what you may think AA was actually promising at C down the stretch, played a more complete game, was decent in FO circle and still dangerous offensively. Wings are fine at C with Larkin - AA - Veleno for the next 5-10 years. I mean you can't just keep stockpiling a ton of picks year after year, there are contract limits. Eventually you have to decide what you really need/want and be aggressive and go get it.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:29 p.m.
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exo2769
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Quoting: Drw4209
No that's about the price it would cost perhaps another small add if anything, whether it's enough for CHI in particular that's another question. Seems the vast majority of scouts agree the difference between the prospects in the 3-10 range is basically none. Det just prefers the high end D to another high end F and will pay a solid asset to ensure that.





The Wings need a top pairing LHD to pair with Hronek. Cholowski looks more like a 2nd pair guy, McIsaac probably closer to that as well. Byram is the best D in the draft and exactly what Detroit needs atp. If I only have to give up one late 2nd, while I still have 2 2nd's remaining, I'm doing that. Despite what you may think AA was actually promising at C down the stretch, played a more complete game, was decent in FO circle and still dangerous offensively. Wings are fine at C with Larkin - AA - Veleno for the next 5-10 years. I mean you can't just keep stockpiling a ton of picks year after year, there are contract limits. Eventually you have to decide what you really need/want and be aggressive and go get it.


Sorry, but wrong
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:31 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: ChiHawks34
That is probably one of the worst offers I’ve ever seen on this website. This is so far away from what the real price would be that it’s not even funny. Detroit has nothing to give up that the hawks or any team in top 5 will accept


Lmao the worst proposal are you kidding me? You think dropping 3 spots in a draft where the difference in prospects in that range is virtually nothing would cost something massive???? Forgot there is no point in discussing these matters with Chi fans, they just aren't very knowledgeable about hockey.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:32 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: exo2769
Sorry, but wrong


Lol Chi fans seem to think they won 1st overall. There's a decent chance whoever you want at 3 would be there at 6 lmao
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:34 p.m.
#10
exo2769
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Quoting: Drw4209
Lol Chi fans seem to think they won 1st overall. There's a decent chance whoever you want at 3 would be there at 6 lmao


Not at all! You're just ignoring hard evidence.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:41 p.m.
#11
ChiHawks34
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Quoting: Drw4209
Lmao the worst proposal are you kidding me? You think dropping 3 spots in a draft where the difference in prospects in that range is virtually nothing would cost something massive???? Forgot there is no point in discussing these matters with Chi fans, they just aren't very knowledgeable about hockey.


Quoting: Drw4209
Lmao the worst proposal are you kidding me? You think dropping 3 spots in a draft where the difference in prospects in that range is virtually nothing would cost something massive???? Forgot there is no point in discussing these matters with Chi fans, they just aren't very knowledgeable about hockey.


Quoting: Drw4209
Lmao the worst proposal are you kidding me? You think dropping 3 spots in a draft where the difference in prospects in that range is virtually nothing would cost something massive???? Forgot there is no point in discussing these matters with Chi fans, they just aren't very knowledgeable about hockey.


Loooool. You must be really stupid. A second rounder who probably never be a starter in the league is enough to potentially draft a superstar? Get out of here. You don’t know a damn thing
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:49 p.m.
#12
ChiHawks34
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Quoting: Drw4209
Lol Chi fans seem to think they won 1st overall. There's a decent chance whoever you want at 3 would be there at 6 lmao


Decent chance........ listen to yourself. That value is laughable and if you had even a fraction of hockey knowledge you would know that offer is trash. That’s a difference between a toews and a bust. You pick best player available period.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:49 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: ChiHawks34
Loooool. You must be really stupid. A second rounder who probably never be a starter in the league is enough to potentially draft a superstar? Get out of here. You don’t know a damn thing


Lol the kid who started watching hockey 5 years ago thinks he knows what he's talking about. 2nd rounder are like gold, there countless exceptional NHL players that were 2nd round picks. That alone just shows how clueless you are. If you don't think a late 2nd is enough to drop from 3 to 6 that's fine but saying it's the worst proposal is literally **** and a give away you don't understand draft pick values nor how they pertain to a given draft class.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:52 p.m.
#14
exo2769
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Quoting: Drw4209
Lol the kid who started watching hockey 5 years ago thinks he knows what he's talking about. 2nd rounder are like gold, there countless exceptional NHL players that were 2nd round picks. That alone just shows how clueless you are. If you don't think a late 2nd is enough to drop from 3 to 6 that's fine but saying it's the worst proposal is literally **** and a give away you don't understand draft pick values nor how they pertain to a given draft class.


My man, look at the history/evidence provided.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:53 p.m.
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ChiHawks34
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Quoting: Drw4209
Lol the kid who started watching hockey 5 years ago thinks he knows what he's talking about. 2nd rounder are like gold, there countless exceptional NHL players that were 2nd round picks. That alone just shows how clueless you are. If you don't think a late 2nd is enough to drop from 3 to 6 that's fine but saying it's the worst proposal is literally **** and a give away you don't understand draft pick values nor how they pertain to a given draft class.


Far more second rounded that failed than succeeded. Also said one of the worst. It’s a joke offer. If you think that’s even remotely an ok offer then I’ll let you keep talking. Your digging your own hole here. Also I’ve been watching hockey for 20 years thank you smile.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:53 p.m.
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Quoting: ChiHawks34
Decent chance........ listen to yourself. That value is laughable and if you had even a fraction of hockey knowledge you would know that offer is trash. That’s a difference between a toews and a bust. You pick best player available period.


That's the point dummy, after the top 2 there is no best player available, it's a bunch of guys all cluttered together
Apr. 14, 2019 at 1:57 p.m.
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exo2769
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Quoting: Drw4209
That's the point dummy, after the top 2 there is no best player available, it's a bunch of guys all cluttered together


Disagree. As mentioned earlier. #6 is a tough pick to have if Vasili decides to stay in Russia.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 2:00 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: Drw4209
That's the point dummy, after the top 2 there is no best player available, it's a bunch of guys all cluttered together


Ok... but why give up a huge chance to get a superstar to move down 3 spots and have a 40 percent chance of that second round pick even seeing a nhl stadium in uniform? Not good enough man
Apr. 14, 2019 at 2:01 p.m.
#19
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Quoting: exo2769
My man, look at the history/evidence provided.


There isn't much modern history, there was an 11th for 12th swap that cost a 3rd rounder. There was a 21st + 42nd for 14th. To me 6 + 55(ish) for 3 isn't so far off from that. Maybe some years it would be when there is a prospect who'd be a consensus lock to go 3 but that isn't the case this year, or at least doesn't appear to be.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 2:05 p.m.
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Quoting: ChiHawks34
Ok... but why give up a huge chance to get a superstar to move down 3 spots and have a 40 percent chance of that second round pick even seeing a nhl stadium in uniform? Not good enough man


Look if Hawks closed in on a guy they really liked and didn't want to move down for fear of losing out on him I would totally understand. I'm just thinking if they really like several guys and are fine getting whoever is left at 6 that we could maybe make a deal.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 2:06 p.m.
#21
exo2769
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Quoting: Drw4209
There isn't much modern history, there was an 11th for 12th swap that cost a 3rd rounder. There was a 21st + 42nd for 14th. To me 6 + 55(ish) for 3 isn't so far off from that. Maybe some years it would be when there is a prospect who'd be a consensus lock to go 3 but that isn't the case this year, or at least doesn't appear to be.


It depends if vasili is bound for North America. If so...that actually makes this trade easier. After 6...to me...it falls to a 3rd tier. The fact that there isnt that many trades suggests that DET would HAVE to be sold on a specific #3. Because they'd have a PAY UP for it.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 2:15 p.m.
#22
ChiHawks34
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Quoting: Drw4209
Look if Hawks closed in on a guy they really liked and didn't want to move down for fear of losing out on him I would totally understand. I'm just thinking if they really like several guys and are fine getting whoever is left at 6 that we could maybe make a deal.


If that is the case, you have to admit a measly second rounder to move up 3 spots is not enough. You trade a pick like that for top players in the league.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 2:18 p.m.
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So who is Chicago taking with the 3rd pick?
Apr. 14, 2019 at 2:29 p.m.
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Quoting: ChiHawks34
If that is the case, you have to admit a measly second rounder to move up 3 spots is not enough. You trade a pick like that for top players in the league.


Well I don't find 2nd rounders measly at all. I go back and look through the draft history and see tons of good players drafted there. Maybe Wings add something else but it's not like you're dropping a ton, you're still getting a really good player.
Apr. 14, 2019 at 2:42 p.m.
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Quoting: exo2769
It depends if vasili is bound for North America. If so...that actually makes this trade easier. After 6...to me...it falls to a 3rd tier. The fact that there isnt that many trades suggests that DET would HAVE to be sold on a specific #3. Because they'd have a PAY UP for it.


So you think it would take 6 and 35 to move up to 3? Don't think I'd do that as a Wings fan, tad too rich for me given there is little to no separation in talent level. If a late 2nd plus something else smaller isn't enough then I'd hold at 6 and take what we can get.
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