Forums/Armchair-GM

PHI and CGY would you do this

Created by: arafay
Initial Creation Date: Apr 28, 2019
Published: May 1 at 6:33 pm
Team: 2019-20 Winnipeg Jets
Team Explanation
Considering the aging core and the fact that Myers is Trouba's ceiling. PHI is essentially using cap space to contend now since it has all the other pieces.
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
Gawanke, Leon3$925,000
Samberg, Dylan3$925,000
Virtanen, Santeri3$741,667
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Comrie, Eric1$800,000
Connor, Kyle8$7,350,000
Laine, Patrik8$9,500,000
Copp, Andrew3$2,200,000
Beaulieu, Nathan2$2,200,000
Shaw, Logan1$800,000
Suess, C.J.1$800,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Lindholm, Pär1$900,000
Lipon, JC1$700,000
Hendricks, Matt1$700,000
Schilling, Cameron1$700,000
Griffith, Seth1$700,000
Trades
WPG
  1. Hamonic, Travis
CGY
  1. Stanley, Logan
  2. Harkins, Jansen
  3. 2019 2nd round pick (WPG)
WPG
  1. Myers, Philippe
  2. 2019 2nd round pick (PHI)
PHI
  1. Trouba, Jacob [RFA Rights]
  2. Kulikov, Dmitry
  3. Brossoit, Laurent [RFA Rights]
Additional Details:
Trouba signs 7X7.5 extention
Brossiot is a good backup for hart (can play 30-ish games)
Kulikov is a cap dump
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2019
PHI
WPG
WPG
2020
WPG
WPG
WPG
WPG
WPG
2021
WPG
WPG
WPG
WPG
WPG
WPG
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$83,000,000$81,891,030$0$272,500$1,108,970
Left WingCenterRight Wing
WPG
Connor, Kyle
$7,350,000
LW
UFA - 7
WPG
Scheifele, Mark
$6,125,000
C
UFA - 5
WPG
Wheeler, Blake
$8,250,000
RW, C
NMC
UFA - 5
WPG
Perreault, Mathieu
$4,125,000
LW, C
NTC
UFA - 2
WPG
Little, Bryan
$5,291,666
C, RW
NMC
UFA - 5
WPG
Ehlers, Nikolaj
$6,000,000
RW, LW
UFA - 6
WPG
Copp, Andrew
$2,200,000
C, LW
RFA - 2
WPG
Roslovic, Jack
$894,166
RW, C
RFA - 1
WPG
Laine, Patrik
$9,500,000
LW, RW
RFA - 2
WPG
Vesalainen, Kristian
$894,167
LW, RW
RFA - 3
WPG
Lowry, Adam
$2,916,666
C
UFA - 2
WPG
Appleton, Mason
$741,667
RW, C
RFA - 1
WPG
Lindholm, Pär
$900,000
LW, C
UFA - 2
WPG
Hendricks, Matt
$700,000
RW, C, LW
UFA
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
WPG
Morrissey, Joshua
$3,150,000
LD
UFA - 1
CGY
Hamonic, Travis
$3,857,143
RD
UFA - 1
WPG
Hellebuyck, Connor
$6,166,666
G
UFA - 5
WPG
Niku, Sami
$775,000
RD
RFA - 1
WPG
Byfuglien, Dustin
$7,600,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 2
WPG
Comrie, Eric
$800,000
G
RFA - 2
WPG
Beaulieu, Nathan
$2,200,000
LD
UFA - 1
PHI
Myers, Philippe
$678,889
RD
RFA - 1
WPG
Poolman, Tucker
$775,000
RD
UFA - 2

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May 1 at 6:39
#1
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,940
Likes: 2,068
Nope. Myers will be cheap for a few more years and has Trouba’s upside.
May 1 at 6:56
#2
CGY
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,656
Likes: 518
Doubtful.

Two uncertainties and a 2nd for Hamonic, who’s their 2nd best D
May 1 at 6:57
#3
MK458
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 419
Quoting: DirtyDangles
Nope. Myers will be cheap for a few more years and has Trouba’s upside.


I could understand not wanting to do this trade. But lets be realistic here, Myers does not have Trouba's upside. Myers is 22, by age 21 Trouba was already playing top 4 minutes and situations. He put up 29 points in 65 games in the NHL in his rookie season. He was a top 10 draft pick who put up dominant numbers in the NCAA before bursting into the league. Myers has potential to be a top 4 dman, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. One great season in the AHL (his 2nd season), doesn't give him Trouba's upside. I think you've got a bit of a bias as a Flyers fan. I mean no disrespect, I think Myers will be a good dman. But Trouba just put up 50 points
shmoeman and arafay liked this.
May 1 at 6:57
#4
Jets Fan
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 283
Likes: 88
I like it for the Jets. Seems like a slight overpay for Hamonic, but he fills a need
arafay liked this.
May 1 at 7:05
#5
luketd
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 58
Likes: 16
we dont need a backup goalie, we have Talbot or Elliot, and I would like a cap dump for 2 seasons, it would just be another macDonald. and with 4 mil caught up in him, it will be harder to sign our RFA's and UFA's next season.
May 1 at 7:07
#6
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,940
Likes: 2,068
Quoting: mk458
I could understand not wanting to do this trade. But lets be realistic here, Myers does not have Trouba's upside. Myers is 22, by age 21 Trouba was already playing top 4 minutes and situations. He put up 29 points in 65 games in the NHL in his rookie season. He was a top 10 draft pick who put up dominant numbers in the NCAA before bursting into the league. Myers has potential to be a top 4 dman, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. One great season in the AHL (his 2nd season), doesn't give him Trouba's upside. I think you've got a bit of a bias as a Flyers fan. I mean no disrespect, I think Myers will be a good dman. But Trouba just put up 50 points


Take a look at what Myers did in juniors. He dominated. He was also paired with Thomas Chabot in the World Juniors. He may be slower to bloom than Trouba but Myers does have his upside. You don’t compare upside by what someone did at the same age.
May 1 at 7:31
#7
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,469
Likes: 199
Calgary passes this up.

Hamonic plays a great role, at a great price, and will likely consider an extension at a great price.

Hamonic + [insert here] as a package for Trouba would be interesting, but with Yzerman in DET, it doesn't seem possible. The point is, CGY doesn't have any reason to weaken their Top 4 right now and go with prospects.
May 1 at 7:43
#8
Go Wings Go
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 16,345
Likes: 1,839
Trouba wants to be close to his family in Michigan especially his Mother Kristy, Don't see him in Philly. His family wants him there in Michigan.
May 1 at 7:44
#9
Math and Sports
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 643
Likes: 160
Edited May 1 at 8:01
Quoting: mk458
I could understand not wanting to do this trade. But lets be realistic here, Myers does not have Trouba's upside. Myers is 22, by age 21 Trouba was already playing top 4 minutes and situations. He put up 29 points in 65 games in the NHL in his rookie season. He was a top 10 draft pick who put up dominant numbers in the NCAA before bursting into the league. Myers has potential to be a top 4 dman, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. One great season in the AHL (his 2nd season), doesn't give him Trouba's upside. I think you've got a bit of a bias as a Flyers fan. I mean no disrespect, I think Myers will be a good dman. But Trouba just put up 50 points



Quoting: DirtyDangles
Take a look at what Myers did in juniors. He dominated. He was also paired with Thomas Chabot in the World Juniors. He may be slower to bloom than Trouba but Myers does have his upside. You don’t compare upside by what someone did at the same age.


I'm gonna go ahead and second pretty much everything mk just said.

Firstly, Junior is not evenly comparable to the NCAA. The difference between a dominant defender against older amateur players and being a dominant defender against guys your own age is night and day. The difficulty scale done by behindthenet has junior a shade under 75% of the difficulty of NCAA. Not even counting that the BIG10 is actually a decent conference. Otherwise the numbers would look even more favorably on Trouba. Behindthenet is a pretty logical site, so when they make predictions and approximations, it's fairly reliable.

Secondly, that is absolutely how you compare upside. Athletes reach their athletic prime at about 25-30 and they do the majority of their growth up until that point with the last couple stages of development being very slow. That means the majority of their growth happens 19-23. The fact that Trouba was that far ahead of him is pretty indicative of how the two will compare. There are definitely exceptions to the rule, but the Blake Wheelers and Jamie Benn of the world are the exception and not the rule.
mk458 and arafay liked this.
May 1 at 8:48
#10
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 459
Quoting: mk458
I could understand not wanting to do this trade. But lets be realistic here, Myers does not have Trouba's upside. Myers is 22, by age 21 Trouba was already playing top 4 minutes and situations. He put up 29 points in 65 games in the NHL in his rookie season. He was a top 10 draft pick who put up dominant numbers in the NCAA before bursting into the league. Myers has potential to be a top 4 dman, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. One great season in the AHL (his 2nd season), doesn't give him Trouba's upside. I think you've got a bit of a bias as a Flyers fan. I mean no disrespect, I think Myers will be a good dman. But Trouba just put up 50 points


Yea Myers will be a very solid dman but nothing like Trouba
mk458 liked this.
May 1 at 10:21
#11
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,102
Likes: 523
Quoting: ItWasIn
Doubtful.

Two uncertainties and a 2nd for Hamonic, who’s their 2nd best D


Quoting: Vanderm
Calgary passes this up.

Hamonic plays a great role, at a great price, and will likely consider an extension at a great price.

Hamonic + [insert here] as a package for Trouba would be interesting, but with Yzerman in DET, it doesn't seem possible. The point is, CGY doesn't have any reason to weaken their Top 4 right now and go with prospects.


How about if we send a middle six forward like Perreault. I feel that Anderson is ready to make a step forward and I do not think Calgary has the cap space to keep harmonic beyond this season. I honesly did not think that it was practical but if we could find a way, that would be great.
May 1 at 10:29
#12
NateElder12
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 5,736
Likes: 799
Big no from the Flyers side. Don't need extra deadweight. Ghost for Trouba I think would make more sense for both sides but you cant expect them to carry over 12M in deadweight on defense (Kulikov, AMac, Schlemko) when they fired a GM that wants to win now? Can't see that happening.
jeplaza14 liked this.
May 2 at 12:24
#13
CGY
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,656
Likes: 518
Quoting: arafay
How about if we send a middle six forward like Perreault. I feel that Anderson is ready to make a step forward and I do not think Calgary has the cap space to keep harmonic beyond this season. I honesly did not think that it was practical but if we could find a way, that would be great.


I think the Flames will decide between Brodie and Hamonic this summer. Trade one and extend one. Brodie will most likely age better than Hamonic, but the Flames have Valimaki/Hanifin/Kylington that play a similar game to Brodie and they don’t have anyone like Hamonic which is why I think they keep him, but I could be wrong
May 2 at 9:13
#14
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 263
Likes: 85
Quoting: TheCelt
I'm gonna go ahead and second pretty much everything mk just said.

Firstly, Junior is not evenly comparable to the NCAA. The difference between a dominant defender against older amateur players and being a dominant defender against guys your own age is night and day. The difficulty scale done by behindthenet has junior a shade under 75% of the difficulty of NCAA. Not even counting that the BIG10 is actually a decent conference. Otherwise the numbers would look even more favorably on Trouba. Behindthenet is a pretty logical site, so when they make predictions and approximations, it's fairly reliable.

Secondly, that is absolutely how you compare upside. Athletes reach their athletic prime at about 25-30 and they do the majority of their growth up until that point with the last couple stages of development being very slow. That means the majority of their growth happens 19-23. The fact that Trouba was that far ahead of him is pretty indicative of how the two will compare. There are definitely exceptions to the rule, but the Blake Wheelers and Jamie Benn of the world are the exception and not the rule.


It's actually laughable thinking the NCAA is leaps and bounds above Juniors. I get it, guys are bigger and stronger in the NCAA, but they also have 1/3 of the talent compared to the guys your defending in Juniors. Trouba just finished his 6th season in the NHL and he finally surpassed 33 points, his previous career high. Is 50 points his new norm? Maybe, but its certainly a great time for the Jets to try and capitalize on the most value he has ever had. Selling high is smart by them. Buying high would not be smart for the Flyers. Will Myers put up the offensive numbers Trouba did this year? Maybe not, but his ceiling is to be just as good, if not better, defensively. Brossoit has no value in this trade since the Flyers want to sign a veteran backup, Brossoit has only played in 49 games. And to top it off, you dump Kulikov on them without any other type of compensation.
May 2 at 10:02
#15
Math and Sports
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 643
Likes: 160
Quoting: GhostBear
It's actually laughable thinking the NCAA is leaps and bounds above Juniors. I get it, guys are bigger and stronger in the NCAA, but they also have 1/3 of the talent compared to the guys your defending in Juniors. Trouba just finished his 6th season in the NHL and he finally surpassed 33 points, his previous career high. Is 50 points his new norm? Maybe, but its certainly a great time for the Jets to try and capitalize on the most value he has ever had. Selling high is smart by them. Buying high would not be smart for the Flyers. Will Myers put up the offensive numbers Trouba did this year? Maybe not, but his ceiling is to be just as good, if not better, defensively. Brossoit has no value in this trade since the Flyers want to sign a veteran backup, Brossoit has only played in 49 games. And to top it off, you dump Kulikov on them without any other type of compensation.


Doesn't matter. Age trumps talent when talent is comparable for amateur players. It's the same reason press box plugs like Brendan Lemieux and Nic Petan can have ridiculous offensive numbers, and do absolutely nothing in the NHL. Being a dominant amateur against amateurs your own age doesn't mean a lot. The best CHL players can be identified because they are the best players in a U20 league at 17 and 18, or in some cases, being allowed to enter the league a year early with exceptional status.

On the flip side of the NCAA, it's why NCAA free agents are usually solid but underwhelming players. Being a 23 year old and lighting up 18 year olds is pretty meh.

Thinking the CHL can compete with the NCAA is asinine. It is the same line of thinking that a top American high school football or basketball team could compete with a CIS team. No they wouldn't.

Myers has Trouba's ceiling in the sense that he could play top pairing minutes one day but if you're charting him against Trouba he has catching up to do. At this point in time Trouba was coming off his 2nd full NHL season and had 2 years of being a top 4 defenseman under his belt. It's not impossible for Myers to catch him, but not likely.
mk458 liked this.
 
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