Leafs decline, for two reasons.

1) If Kadri is moved it'll be for a cheaper 3C or a defensive upgrade
2) Gudas is slow and overpriced

You should probably just stop trading Gudas to TO.

Overpriced at $1.85 mil? HA! He is exactly what the Leafs need or you can continue to play AHL caliber D men...

Leafs would consider that deal. Philly might add slightly but it's in the ballpark of value. If Toronto moves Kadri it's because they'll feel comfortable with internal options to fill the 3C spot (Nylander or a prospect) they'll use Kadri to get d help and Gudas could play well with Rosen on the third pair, and Toronto gets a decent B- prospect outta it plus a pick and cap relief.. that's definitely within reason

He's not. Don't overhype players just to try to sell fans on trying to trade for them. but Gudas is a decent temporary piece for a bottom pair. If he was "exactly" what Toronto needed, it's be a smooth skating two way d-man that can move the puck and shut guys down while playing top minutes.. Gudas is no where close to that

Kadri is worth a lot more than a B level prospect and 3rd rounder. Gudas is nothing, if he wasn't nothing you wouldn't be on here trying to trade him to TO every day.

Prepare for a whole bunch of cherry picked stats about how underrated Gudas is.

Oh right, you're the clown that kept saying Gudas is garbage yet can't substantiate it...

With Toronto in a cap crunch.. that's pretty good return actually. As I said, I'd add to it slightly, maybe get a centre back too.

@DirtyDangles what would you think of adding in Scott Laughton's rights going to Toronto and Toronto sends Andreas Borgman and a 5th round pick as well? & changing the original pick to a 2020 instead?


Nazem Kadri
Andreas Borgman
Toronto 2020 5th round pick


Radko Gudas ($1.5M retained)
Isaac Ratcliffe
Philly 2020 3rd round pick
Scott Laughton (rights)

He has played 3rd pair minutes his entire career.....because he's a 3rd pair defenceman.

I am not saying he's garbage, I'm saying he is what he is, a slow but physical 3rd pair defenceman. You are the guy trying to sell Leaf fans on him being exactly what they need, which by the way is a guy who can play the top pair with Rielly. Gudas isn't a top pair defenceman, he isn't a 2nd pair defenceman. He's a bottom pair physical defenceman. That's all and there is nothing wrong with that, it just isn't worth much at all and isn't wanted by TO. At all.

The Leafs have ZERO ability to get a top pairing D man this offseason unless you move Nylander + and we all know how butt hurt you get anytime someone moves Nylander. If you don't want Gudas, have fun playing Holl or Marincin! Oh but you think everyone will sign with you for league min and you can get a really solid guy for that 3rd pairing.

Yup, don’t bother https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/220786&post_id=835590

Every factual metric says Gudas is a 4 at worst yet he’ll keep resorting to opinions and flawed logic. You use his flawed logic to potentially downgrade Leafs players and then he stays quiet

Well if you looked at any of my teams I have posted you'd see that I am taking a wait and see approach with the defence. I am trusting that Dermott, Rosen and Borgman will progress enough to make this year work. I think it may result in a small step back but the following year Marleau is off the books and then moves can be made or someone can be signed. Gudas is definitely not the answer.

What are you even talking about man. Look at worst Gudas has been a 3rd pair defenceman his entire career and at best, that is exactly what he is. There is nothing wrong with that. He's an NHL player, hardly anyone can say that. He just isn't anything more than a bottom pair guy. Gudas is Gudbranson or Polak or Orpik or name any other phyiscal defenceman who is rather slow and has little offence. They have some value but not a lot, mainly because they get exposed by anyone with speed. Which is why players of this type all play bottom pair minutes on their respective teams. If Gudas played in Toronto, he'd have the same role that Roman Polak had. Bottom pair minutes and PK. If he cost 1.5 million or less, then I'd maybe send a 3rd or 4th round pick for him but that's all he's worth. You even know this, which is why Flyer fans are always trading Gudas.

I’m talking about the thread I posted the link to lol. I’m not gonna get into this argument again. You just keep showing your ignorance. You compare Gudas to those 3 guys yet the stats say he’s a much better player than all 3. I gave them all to you in that thread. He’s a 4 or better in every offensive metric and every defensive metric yet you keep saying he’s a 5. That’s pure ignorance. Nothing we can do about it. And you say we know he’s a third pair guy because we’re always trading him. For starters, that simply isn’t true, but besides that, are you that oblivious to the reason we trade him and not our other guys? News flash, people like young players with potential. Of the 5 d-men with actual value Gudas is the oldest one by roughly 3 years. That’s why we choose to trade him over guys like Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim or Myers. It isn’t rocket science

So why would TO trade a young guy with potential for Gudas who is older and slower? (I know he's not that old)

Kadri is older than Gudas so not sure who the young guy you are talking about is.

Most Gudas trades I have seen involve Kap or Nylander. I have forgotten who was involved in this trade.

Because there are much more to trades than age and speed. There’s what you have a lot of, what you need, value, etc

A lot of it is subjective though. I know at least 2 Leafs fan who were willing to trade a first round pick for Gudas before they got Muzzin. For you, that obviously isn’t the case, it probably isn’t for me either, but it’s all a matter of opinion

But why would you want Gudas? It’s because of our description. If I didn’t name the player but I told you that you’d be getting a 28 year old, 2nd pair, right handed d-man, who is very good defensively, plays playoff style hockey and isn’t a juggernaut offensively but is still a good puck mover, for 1.8 million (after retained salary), I’m pretty sure you, or at least most Leafs fans would be interested in that player. The only issue is some people think Gudas fits that description whereas you don’t. But if you thought Gudas fit that description, or chose another player that you thought fit that description, I’m pretty sure you’d think getting that player makes sense for the Leafs

As for what you’re giving up, Leafs need to shed cap. Ideally they’d get rid of somebody like Marleau or Zaitsev, maybe Brown, but those guys wouldn’t garner much of a return and most people don’t really want those guys. It’s why fans from other teams choose to trade for guys like Kadri or Johnsson or Kapanen or Nylander. It’s guys that are kind of expendable for the Leafs depending on the return since they have such a strong group of forwards, although I’d be shocked if they get rid of Nylander a lot more than I would be about the other 3

Once you choose which forward you’re giving up, it’s about finding that balance in value. Like this deal, you start off with something like Kadri for Gudas. Obviously Kadri has more value so you try and add to Gudas to make the value even. Once you add whatever you feel is fair value, the trade starts to make sense. It would be the same thing for a guy like Kapanen and again, if Gudas doesn’t fit the description according to you, then it doesn’t have to be him, but any d-man that you believe fits that description would suffice. Since Kapanen is younger you probably need to add even more to make up for the age gap, but once whatever value needed is added, the trade starts to make sense. Leafs improve their position of weakness while subtracting from a position of strength, they shed cap making it easier to sign their other players. It’s that simple

Simply speaking Gudas isn't worth much. Any fan that would trade a 1dt for Gudas doesn't know hockey

I wouldn't give up a first for him either but at a cap hit of $1.8 mil, he is a steal. The above trade is more than fair and addresses a Leafs need.

The Leafs need a top pair guy to play with Rielly, Gudas is not that or anything close to that.

You also need actual NHL caliber depth D men. You aren't getting a top pairing D man this year.

Well then Rosen and Borgman will get a chance to show what they can do. Rosen looks really good, injuries are the only thing keeping him out of the NHL. Next season he'll be a full time player. Borgman showed himself as a serviceable player for a half season a year ago and then had some injuries as well. I am fine roling the dice with those two on the bottom pair. Gudas costs more than those guys combined and both are far better skaters than Gudas. Rosen's ceiling is much higher than Gudas's and Borgman's ceiling is a much better version of Gudas.

Both will be good enough to get the Leafs into the playoffs. So why make a drastic move that weakens the Leafs middle of the ice for a guy that very possibly could be worse than anyone else we have on the ice?

Gudas, worse than anyone you have on the ice? HAHAHA, have a good day bud

He could be, is what I said. Its not a certain thing. One thing I would say is Gudas isn't as good as Muzzin, Rielly or Dermott. Some will say he's better than Zaitsev and others will say Zaitsev is better. I won't debate that, it doesn't matter, Zaitsev is almost 100% going to be playing a full season with Muzzin so its a moot point. So now Gudas would be a bottom pair guy on the Leafs since it looks like Dermott will slide to the right side to play with Rielly.

So the bottom pair will likely be two young swedes in Rosen and Borgman, Borgman has played half a season and looked okay, not great but okay. Rosen has looked good in limited opportunities and has been dominant in the AHL. So are those guys better than Gudas, who knows? Can they be? I'd say Rosen for sure has way more potential than Gudas and Borgman is a similar style player but a much better skater. So could they be better? Possibly, but they need the playing time to prove it one way or another. Personally I'd rather give them the chance. Because Gudas doesn't make Toronto a scarier team, not at all. He makes their bottom pair tougher for sure but that's all. Keeping Kadri at 3C makes them a scarier team and if the young inexperienced defence is properly coached and they progress as many young players do, they could be much better than people expect.

To say they will suck and there is no chance the Leafs can do anything is just the usual ridiculous internet non sense where people think with emotions over logic.