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If Marners camp wont play ball

Created by: Boomer125
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: May 25, 2019
Published: May 25, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
If Marner and his camp keep yipping about Matthews money.

I pull this move June 29, I inform Marner and his camp in the morning give them till 7pm to sign our offer of 5 years at 8.25 or 8 years at 9.95, I don't allow him or his camp to talk to Colorado which I have the ability to do. If he don't sign I pull the trigger on the trade.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
3$2,125,000
3$3,250,000
3$3,250,000
Trades
1.
TOR
  1. Barrie, Tyson
  2. Kerfoot, Alexander [RFA Rights]
  3. Zadorov, Nikita [RFA Rights]
  4. 2020 1st round pick (COL)
COL
  1. Marner, Mitchell [RFA Rights]
Additional Details:
So Mitch is apparently worth Matthews money therefore is easily worth this package and every GM would jump at the opportunity to get MM right.
2.
TOR
  1. 2019 4th round pick (EDM)
3.
TOR
  1. 2020 3rd round pick (NJD)
NJD
    Sending Zadorov RFA rights
    Retained Salary Transactions
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2019
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the STL
    Logo of the EDM
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the DAL
    2020
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the COL
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the NJD
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the EDM
    Logo of the SJS
    2021
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    22$83,000,000$74,227,199$0$82,500$8,772,801
    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $3,250,000$3,250,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $11,634,000$11,634,000
    C
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $6,962,366$6,962,366
    RW
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $2,250,000$2,250,000
    RW, LW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $11,000,000$11,000,000
    C, LW
    NMC
    UFA - 6
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $842,500$842,500 (Performance Bonus$82,500$82K)
    RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $700,000$700,000
    LW, C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $4,500,000$4,500,000
    C
    M-NTC
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $3,250,000$3,250,000
    RW
    UFA - 3
    $2,125,000$2,125,000
    LW, C, RW
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $675,000$675,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $775,000$775,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $775,000$775,000
    C, LW, RW
    UFA - 2
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $5,000,000$5,000,000
    LD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
    $2,750,000$2,750,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $5,000,000$5,000,000
    G
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $4,000,000$4,000,000
    LD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $4,500,000$4,500,000
    RD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $750,000$750,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $750,000$750,000
    LD
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $863,333$863,333
    LD/RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $675,000$675,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $5,300,000$5,300,000
    RW
    M-NTC, NMC
    UFA - 1

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    May 25, 2019 at 2:27 p.m.
    #1
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    yeah....I dont think so buddy on that one.
    May 25, 2019 at 2:28 p.m.
    #2
    Bcarlo25
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    I would think Colorado absolutely jumps at that
    May 25, 2019 at 2:30 p.m.
    #3
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    Yeah COL sure as heck take that.
    May 25, 2019 at 2:30 p.m.
    #4
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    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    I would think Colorado absolutely jumps at that


    the opposite of that. IF Marner wants 12m why would Avs give up 4 prime assets and burn all that cap space for him to be the 2nd line RW?
    blowing_the_zone liked this.
    May 25, 2019 at 2:31 p.m.
    #5
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    Quoting: TheChief
    Yeah COL sure as heck take that.


    nah, Marner isnt worth the price to get him in assets and cap space in this case
    May 25, 2019 at 2:33 p.m.
    #6
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    Quoting: coga16
    nah, Marner isnt worth the price to get him in assets and cap space in this case


    Nah. That first is gonna be low. Barrie's most likely out after the next season. He just traded Zadorov for a 3rd. Essentially he moved Marner in exchange to Kerfoot and low first.
    May 25, 2019 at 2:35 p.m.
    #7
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    Quoting: TheChief
    Nah. That first is gonna be low. Barrie's most likely out after the next season. He just traded Zadorov for a 3rd. Essentially he moved Marner in exchange to Kerfoot and low first.


    You are burning 10-12m in Marner, 9-10m in Mikko? Sorry b ut you arent going to win with 20m in RWers especially moving one of the Avs most complete Top 4 Pairings in Barrie Zads. IT creates a hole in the line up and adds a redundant players in Marner to fight for ice time with Mikko.

    Its not that Marner the player, its just the Marner the fit in Colorado makes 0 Sense and all it does it sets the Avs 2 steps back when it comes to a a balanced winning roster
    blowing_the_zone liked this.
    May 25, 2019 at 2:37 p.m.
    #8
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    Quoting: coga16
    You are burning 10-12m in Marner, 9-10m in Mikko? Sorry b ut you arent going to win with 20m in RWers especially moving one of the Avs most complete Top 4 Pairings in Barrie Zads. IT creates a hole in the line up and adds a redundant players in Marner to fight for ice time with Mikko.

    Its not that Marner the player, its just the Marner the fit in Colorado makes 0 Sense and all it does it sets the Avs 2 steps back when it comes to a a balanced winning roster


    Solution: Just don't sign Marner. Wait for someone to pull an offer sheet, and collect those 4 first rounders then. It's rumored as a possibility, although as unlikely one.
    JakeD liked this.
    May 25, 2019 at 2:39 p.m.
    #9
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    Quoting: TheChief
    Solution: Just don't sign Marner. Wait for someone to pull an offer sheet, and collect those 4 first rounders then. It's rumored as a possibility, although as unlikely one.


    So set the team even further back by losing a complete Top 4 D Pairing and good young Middle 6 forward just to gain 3 additional 1st rounders? Rip the roster apart for no reason? Thats an even worse idea
    May 25, 2019 at 2:39 p.m.
    #10
    Bcarlo25
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    Quoting: coga16
    the opposite of that. IF Marner wants 12m why would Avs give up 4 prime assets and burn all that cap space for him to be the 2nd line RW?


    The conversation completely changes if he’s in Colorado instead of Toronto for two reasons.
    1. Taxes. On a 10 million dollar per year deal Marner makes 1.2 million more per year than he would in Toronto.
    2. Matthews. The negotiating tactic of, “well, you just gave so and so who my client has outperformed statistically 11.634,” goes out the window.
    May 25, 2019 at 2:42 p.m.
    #11
    Formerly Jamiepo
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    Quoting: coga16
    You are burning 10-12m in Marner, 9-10m in Mikko? Sorry b ut you arent going to win with 20m in RWers especially moving one of the Avs most complete Top 4 Pairings in Barrie Zads. IT creates a hole in the line up and adds a redundant players in Marner to fight for ice time with Mikko.

    Its not that Marner the player, its just the Marner the fit in Colorado makes 0 Sense and all it does it sets the Avs 2 steps back when it comes to a a balanced winning roster


    Quoting: coga16
    You are burning 10-12m in Marner, 9-10m in Mikko? Sorry b ut you arent going to win with 20m in RWers especially moving one of the Avs most complete Top 4 Pairings in Barrie Zads. IT creates a hole in the line up and adds a redundant players in Marner to fight for ice time with Mikko.

    Its not that Marner the player, its just the Marner the fit in Colorado makes 0 Sense and all it does it sets the Avs 2 steps back when it comes to a a balanced winning roster


    I think you skipped over a point here. If you pay marner 12m is Rantanen going to take 9m?

    I agree with you about the value of a 12m marner or even 11m. Maybe marners tactic of waiting for an offersheet will prove fruitless.

    I’m sure a coulple of teams would give up 4 1sts for a 9m marner but is the price worth it for an overpaid marner? I would have to think that an offersheet to get marner would have to be 5 x 11.5m.
    blowing_the_zone and palhal liked this.
    May 25, 2019 at 2:43 p.m.
    #12
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    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    The conversation completely changes if he’s in Colorado instead of Toronto for two reasons.
    1. Taxes. On a 10 million dollar per year deal Marner makes 1.2 million more per year than he would in Toronto.
    2. Matthews. The negotiating tactic of, “well, you just gave so and so who my client has outperformed statistically 11.634,” goes out the window.


    Avs need isnt to have 20m in RWers, Just isnt a good fit for the team when for the same price a guy like Nylander and Kevin Hayes as a UFA rounds out more of what they actually need to fix some of the roster weakness.

    That trade and the cap hit he would demand would make the Avs a worse team next season
    May 25, 2019 at 2:45 p.m.
    #13
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    Quoting: coga16
    So set the team even further back by losing a complete Top 4 D Pairing and good young Middle 6 forward just to gain 3 additional 1st rounders? Rip the roster apart for no reason? Thats an even worse idea


    It's going even further to unrealistic, but you can use those picks for gaining replacing assets. Most likely COL will end up as winner after the deal.
    May 25, 2019 at 2:45 p.m.
    #14
    Bcarlo25
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    Quoting: coga16
    Avs need isnt to have 20m in RWers, Just isnt a good fit for the team when for the same price a guy like Nylander and Kevin Hayes as a UFA rounds out more of what they actually need to fix some of the roster weakness.

    That trade and the cap hit he would demand would make the Avs a worse team next season


    It’s a fair point that it isn’t the best fit, but that is excellent value for Colorado
    May 25, 2019 at 2:45 p.m.
    #15
    Formerly Jamiepo
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    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    The conversation completely changes if he’s in Colorado instead of Toronto for two reasons.
    1. Taxes. On a 10 million dollar per year deal Marner makes 1.2 million more per year than he would in Toronto.
    2. Matthews. The negotiating tactic of, “well, you just gave so and so who my client has outperformed statistically 11.634,” goes out the window.


    Just thought it would be notable that marner did not out perform Matthews, this reasoning is flawed. More points than mathews last season, yes.
    May 25, 2019 at 2:47 p.m.
    #16
    Bcarlo25
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    Quoting: Jamiepo
    Just thought it would be notable that marner did not out perform Matthews, this reasoning is flawed. More points than mathews last season, yes.


    It’s what his agent will say.
    GenXHockey liked this.
    May 25, 2019 at 2:57 p.m.
    #17
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    I think those are fair numbers. The 8.5m for a shorter term deal is in line with Matthews’ contract. Franchise centres always get more than franchise wingers.

    It’s going to be good negotiations. If Marner signs for 10,000,001 or more on any term, I’ll be pissed.
    May 25, 2019 at 3:00 p.m.
    #18
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    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    The conversation completely changes if he’s in Colorado instead of Toronto for two reasons.
    1. Taxes. On a 10 million dollar per year deal Marner makes 1.2 million more per year than he would in Toronto.
    2. Matthews. The negotiating tactic of, “well, you just gave so and so who my client has outperformed statistically 11.634,” goes out the window.


    Incorrect. You are assuming all of the income is taxed where the player resides. If that was the case, then yes there is roughly a 10% difference between Colorado and USA federal vs Ontario and Canadian federal.

    The problem with that assumption is that players are taxed where the money is earned. So 50% of the games are in Toronto. You'd have to get the schedule to decide what the exact difference would be, but it's probably about half of your figure. Players also pay 20% of their salary to escrow. Very little of that escrow is ever returned. Escrow is high because players keep invoking the escalator.
    May 25, 2019 at 3:02 p.m.
    #19
    Bcarlo25
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    Quoting: Rusty_Shackelford
    Incorrect. You are assuming all of the income is taxed where the player resides. If that was the case, then yes there is roughly a 10% difference between Colorado and USA federal vs Ontario and Canadian federal.

    The problem with that assumption is that players are taxed where the money is earned. So 50% of the games are in Toronto. You'd have to get the schedule to decide what the exact difference would be, but it's probably about half of your figure. Players also pay 20% of their salary to escrow. Very little of that escrow is ever returned. Escrow is high because players keep invoking the escalator.


    I’m just going off the cap friendly calculator. The taxes make a huge difference
    May 25, 2019 at 3:09 p.m.
    #20
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    Let a team offer sheet Marner. No team would ever pay a player 10.5+ and give up 4 1st round picks. Colorado currently doesn't have their 2020 3rd round pick so they couldn't offer sheet Marner at the 2nd tier(2-1sts, a 2nd, and 3rd). Marner is worth what someone is willing to pay. Unfortunately for him, he's not unrestricted. So only the Leafs can sign him without having to pay extra.
    blowing_the_zone liked this.
    May 25, 2019 at 3:16 p.m.
    #21
    Bcarlo25
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    Quoting: Weezley
    I think those are fair numbers. The 8.5m for a shorter term deal is in line with Matthews’ contract. Franchise centres always get more than franchise wingers.

    It’s going to be good negotiations. If Marner signs for 10,000,001 or more on any term, I’ll be pissed.


    Like the last time a team had a winger and a center that were both top five picks and viewed as franchise players, both of whose contracts came up in the same year? Oh wait, they signed identical deals...twice.
    May 25, 2019 at 3:16 p.m.
    #22
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    Quoting: Rusty_Shackelford
    Let a team offer sheet Marner. No team would ever pay a player 10.5+ and give up 4 1st round picks. Colorado currently doesn't have their 2020 3rd round pick so they couldn't offer sheet Marner at the 2nd tier(2-1sts, a 2nd, and 3rd). Marner is worth what someone is willing to pay. Unfortunately for him, he's not unrestricted. So only the Leafs can sign him without having to pay extra.


    Totally agree with this, if Marner's camp wants to play hard-ball, let them try to get an offer-sheet, and as long as it's the top tier (keep in mind the AAV is calculated by dividing by 5 years if it's a 6 or 7 year deal) and you take the four 1sts and let him walk.
    blowing_the_zone liked this.
    May 25, 2019 at 3:27 p.m.
    #23
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    Quoting: Bcarlo25
    The conversation completely changes if he’s in Colorado instead of Toronto for two reasons.
    1. Taxes. On a 10 million dollar per year deal Marner makes 1.2 million more per year than he would in Toronto.
    2. Matthews. The negotiating tactic of, “well, you just gave so and so who my client has outperformed statistically 11.634,” goes out the window.


    Moot argument. Given the favorable exchange rate and the fact that all salaries in NHL are in USD, 10M is 13.5M in Canadian dollars! Even accounting for living costs, this more than compensates the tax difference, which is also way more complicated to calculate for high earners.
    May 25, 2019 at 3:29 p.m.
    #24
    Bcarlo25
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    Quoting: leaflet
    Moot argument. Given the favorable exchange rate and the fact that all salaries in NHL are in USD, 10M is 13.5M in Canadian dollars! Even accounting for living costs, this more than compensates the tax difference, which is also way more complicated to calculate for high earners.


    No. This is naive justification
    May 25, 2019 at 3:29 p.m.
    #25
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    I get the argument of trading Marner if the contract demands are not reasonable, especially given the advantages of playing in Canada in terms of salary (endorsements, favorable exchange rate, and so on).

    But that trade. That trade. Barrie is a rental. Kerfoot a decent but bottom-line centre. The Leafs could get much more. Think at least a star player coming back the other way.
     
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