Salty much?

Wasn't for nothing at the time and the only reason the trade happened is because he wanted out of Buffalo, can you blame him?

Shouldnt have traded him if you arent getting his value back, fix the locker room instead

Jason Botterill: these are fair deals

At the time of the deal, it was seen as a good package for him. Blame it on Buffalo's development team for not developing the players they got the proper way. That has nothing to do with the value of the trade

No it wasnt, nearly everyone was repulsed by that trade. The consensus sense day 1 was "thats all he got", it was just quickly overshadowed by the Skinner trade

Yeah, this trade was a stinker from the beginning. The one saving grace, the one thing that could have given some form of redemption was if St Louis continued to struggle this year and was a lottery team.. Jesus, not even that worked out. It became the worst pick in the first round to boot. Man that's just plain unlucky.

This is one of those perfect storms. Ask any Ottawa fan about having to lose the 4th OV pick this year. Sometimes teams just get screwed by a trade. It happens. The team still has a franchise center and a franchise dman. Their on their way. It just could have been a little sooner from the looks of things.

First let me preface this by saying O'Reilly was incredible against Boston. I never saw him play that well in Buffalo.
I will also remind every one the Blues were in last place on January 3rd, the next day Binnington played his first game.


I am not sure what you mean.

I do not, at the time of the trade I would have accepted a bucket of pucks. I agree with you.

See below what a comparable locker room problem returned that same year just 2 weeks apart.

You are smarter than this.



Let's compare two trades made last year involving locker room problems:
Mike Hoffman Traded from Ottawa Senators with Cody Donaghey and round 5 pick in the 2020 draft to San Jose Sharks for Julius Bergman, Mikkel Boedker and round 6 pick in the 2020 draft

2015-16 Ottawa Senators NHL 78 29 30 59 18
2016-17 Ottawa Senators NHL 74 26 35 61 51
2017-18 Ottawa Senators NHL 82 22 34 56 32
2018-19 Florida Panthers NHL 82 36 34 70 30

Ryan O'Reilly Traded from Buffalo Sabres to St. Louis Blues for Tage Thompson, Patrik Berglund, Vladimir Sobotka, round 1 pick in the 2019 draft and round 2 pick in the 2021 draft

2015-16 Buffalo Sabres NHL 71 21 39 60 8
2016-17 Buffalo Sabres NHL 72 20 35 55 10
2017-18 Buffalo Sabres NHL 81 24 37 61 2
2018-19 St. Louis Blues NHL 82 28 49 77 12
Yup the second trade was a total rip off, but the first trade was very fair.
Betterall was lucky to get any thing more than Berglund.
I guess all Betterall haters forgot about Skinner for Pu 2nd, 3rd and 6th, Montour for 30th OA and Guhle and Sheary for a 4th. There are many issues I have with the way the team has been handling the roster, but I have no complaints regarding his trades.

Edit:

Check out AK responce to the O'Reilly trade:
https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/123589&post_id=777022

Change Barbeshev to a 2nd and it is the trade.

Sorry, that? First, I didn’t say anything about the rest of the Botterill deals, and secondly this deal was terrible for Buffalo and threw the team back from the playoffs for another couple of years. Problems in the locker room? You have evidence that there were some problems in the dressing room, did you personally hear how ROR and Jack are arguing with each other, but the point is not even that, I am not opposed to ROR trading in general, but not for such a terrible return, The story of Hoffman is another case. You gave me a link to your topic, so this is what Botterill did and what you did is two big differences. Dunn has very good prospects for LHD, who has been playing at a good level in the NHL, Kyrou is a stronger prospect than Thompson, these are two different deals.
I’ll say right away for the future, I’m not a fan of Jason Botterill.

Again, I want to reiterate, O'Reilly was awesome. My son and I agree that O'Reilly had to be traded and after every Boston game I would tell him how well O'Reilly played and he would groan. So I knew from watching. With that comment, I never saw O'Reilly play that well in Buffalo and his performance dropped from 2016-17 to his last year with Buffalo 2017-18, you can see this if you go to https://public.tableau.com/profile/christopher.turtoro#!/vizhome/2-yearA3ZPlayerComps/ComparisonDashboard I like this site because I am visual person and see the comparisons easily.

Actually it was a Blues fan "AK" whose comment proposed the trade, I am not sure if you saw that, but he nailed the trade before it happened. Yes I do have evidence, I cannot tell you who because then my source would stop talking with me, but O'Reilly was holding back Eichel (I noticed a big jump in Jack's performance this year) and Kane was affecting Reinhart's play, In fact the Blues were doubtful that O'Reilly would perform well and took out insurance by protecting the first if you will recall.
Let me add, that if you compare O'Reilly and McGinn for 31st OA, Compher, Zadorov, and Grigorenko to O'Reilly for 31st OA, Thompson and 2nd it is pretty close to even. Let's say McGinn and Grigorenko cancel, the picks are identical, Compher was a 2nd round pick and Zadorov's value is close to Thompson's value. So Betterall IMO did well to get back about what DATM gave up to bring him to Buffalo. (he did not do as well when he traded away Kane)
Finally we can agree to disagree about reaching the playoffs. In O'Reilly's 3 years in Buffalo each year the team did more poorly, until it finally was in last place overall. I do not think with O'Reilly on this team it would have been a play off team maybe an extra 5 wins at most, but 14 more wins would be needed to make the playoffs.
It is good to hear from you and I respect your comments, also thanks for clearing up about the other trades.

So maybe there was a problem in coaching and in the organization itself, and not just in O'Reilly, Kane, Lehner and other players? Now Risto will be traded, because he is terrible, and if he will play good on another team like ROR and Lehner and we will write the same thing, that it’s Risto’s fault that he played poorly, not the whole organization, then the story will repeat again with Reinhart, then with someone else, this is a vicious circle. I just see for many years how the Buffalo team cannot reach the playoffs and we blame the players for this, although I believe that everything comes from above, from the management of the organization, naturally from the team owner who cannot appoint competent employees to Competent employees recruited good players after conducting useful deals for the team, and that those employees appointed competent coaches. That's the problem, I have this opinion.

I do not really understand how Botterill returned a good return, he returned two cap dumps and an unproven perspective that did not even enter the top 3 perspectives of St. Louis, I absolutely do not like the return of this deal,IMO.

I did not mean going to the playoffs with ROR, I said, I have no problems to trade him if he had problems in the dressing room or he wanted to secretly leave this organization, but only return a good return for him, but not Sobotka and Berglund, if he returned a good return, then we would be closer to the playoffs, and now we need to look for 2C again, we don’t have 1-2 wingers in the top 6, we don’t have a good defensive defender in the top 4, unfortunately such deals are seriously beaten by the team and you have to start all over again. I hope in the future Botterill will have more deals such as with Skinner and Montour and there will not be such bad deals as with ROR.

Skinner was another team trying to get rid of a guy cause percieved "locker room issues" yes its a win but that contract will never be lived up to. Sheary is worth about a 4th or 5th, just like Sheary that trade is not special. Montour is an analytical darling who took a step back after getting to Buffalo and we dont know what Guhle will become that may end up being a wash (and I lnow you have high hopes for Thompson to justify the trade, but i dont). So those trades, in no way make up for trading their #2 center that they are dying for currently, and it very easily could have been Buffalo in the playoffs this year, every piece that came back for ROR has had a negative impact, and the picks depreciated

Let me preface this by saying O'Reilly played very well against Boston and was the best skater in the series.
Funny how you have the comparison of Hoffman and O'Reilly stats and trades in front of you but you chose to ignore it and never mention it. That my friend was the crux of my comment. At that point in the season O'Reilly was worth Boedker. But you wanted to ignore the trades and stats because they just do not fit into your comfort zone.
So you believe O'Reilly would have added an additional 22 pts to the Sabres this past year?
With O'Reilly on the team how many points did the Sabres digress from the previous season?
How many points did the Blues improve after adding Peron, Bozak, O'Reilly, Thomas and Binnington?
Tell me how many seasons did the Sabres win the Stanley cup while O'Reilly was here?
Tell me how many seasons did the Sabres make the playoffs while O'Reilly was here?
Tell me how many seasons did the Sabres have a winning season while O'Reilly was here?
What do you do with a captain who says he lost his love of the game?
I am happy for O'Reilly, but he never played that way while he was here in Buffalo, certainly never 9 pts in 6 games. If he played that well, or the team made progress from the previous year, or if he already had not displayed poor off ice character, or maybe if he had not announced that he quit he could have stayed.
BTW you do know the Blues made the dramatic turn around after Binnington joined the team.
I will add, the 20 games Montour played he was the Sabre's best defenseman. Guhle has never shown me any indication that he would be an NHL defensemen, but I may be in error.
Sheary IMO was penciled to play with Jack until Jeff joined the team, he did very well playing ranking 5th with 1.8 pt/min makes him a top 6 forward for a 4th good trade IMO.
Skinner was traded because the Canes normally play before an empty arena (third lowest NHL attendance) and needed to dump and they believed Svechnikov would be good enough to take Skinner's spot.
All very good acquisitions.
Lastly, did you remember that in the preseason Berglund was called the Swedish Uncle? Did you notice the collapse coincided with Berglund leaving the team?
See you later my friend, we were lucky to get more than Boedker, and I am sad that you find fault with every trade that added talent to Buffalo without giving up many assets.
I suppose you would like to have DATM back, trading away all futures, making terrible trades, drafting poorly, mishandling the cap, building a team with out 2nd and 3rd lines, gutting the defense, bringing in other teams drunks, womanizers and off ice cowards (I suppose you forgot O'Reilly's auto accident), yup that is just what I want as well.

I dont mention Hoffman because i dont understand the comparison, they are not the same player and Hoffmans situation was worse

yes you talked about items that I did not mention in my comment to your post and ignored the only point that I was making.
You must be in a serious state of denial. Their stats are nearly identical over the last 4 seasons, Hoffman has a $2,000,000 lower cap, they both had issues (Hoffman's GF and O'Reilly giving up and leading the team to last place overall), yet O'Reilly returned the 31st OA, 2nd and a decent prospect more than Hoffman returned in a trade.
When a trade is made one has to look at the context and other contemporaneous trades. For example, I thought Beaulieu would return more than a 6th (maybe as much as a third at the TDL), until I saw many other similar defensemen returned even less. The ONLY reason Beaulieu was traded is that Betterall promised Beaulieu either more ice time or a trade. Since, Beaulieu did not get more ice time, he was traded. Betterall IMO is well respect in the NHL because he is a man of his word. I should add Betterall was very concerned about Lehner's health even after Lehner was no longer a Sabre.

Hoffman wasnt traded because of his stats, he was traded because his fiance told Karlssons wife she was happy she had a miscarriage. We've already gone over this. Ottawa traded Hoffman as a last ditch effort to keep their franchise dman. Sabres traded their #2 center because the media said their might be a locker room problem

Wow you really need to read with understanding. I told you their stats were the same, but they had issues which demanded a trade, Hoffman's GF created problems and O'Reilly's were self created, by giving up he led the team to last place over all. Hoffman was traded for a player similar to Berglund, O'Reilly was traded for much more.
So I have put up three comments to your post. First, you failed to see the similarities between Hoffman and O'Reilly, second, I posed 7 questions which you also chose to ignore, finally, I summarize my first post and you failed to understand the connection between Hoffman and O'Reilly.
This is suppose to be a dialogue. You make a post, then someone comments, you reply to their comment, and so on. None of your replies to my comments were connected to my comment. In fact in the last one, you totally misrepresented what I said.