Forums/NHL Signings

Philadelphia Flyers signed Kevin Hayes (7 Years / $7,142,857 AAV)

Was this a good signing?
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Jun 20, 2019 at 3:45
#101
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 447
Likes: 229
Quoting: drewjenks
What did William Karlsson do?

He scored 43 goals and then signed a 1-Year $5,250,000 contract.


Well he was looking for a long term 6,500,000 contract back then but Vegas offered 3,000,000 less. Everybody knew he wouldn't have a similar season last year, but he had still a good season. His past two seasons were better than the career seasons of Nelson and Hayes. Even though Karlsson doesn't have the same leverage as a RFA, I don't see him sign any extension lower than 7,000,000. Vegas is in cap hell right now so I wouldn't be surprised if any team would offer sheet him at 7,500,000 for 5-7 years.
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Jun 20, 2019 at 11:38
#102
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 334
Likes: 92
Quoting: drewjenks
Nylander's signing looks great ATM ... So I'm not sure what your talking about?

He looked very out of shape at first:

3 points in his first 21 games = Horrendous (on pace for 12 points over 82 games).

But then he caught up with everyone:

24 points in his last 33 games = Pretty Good (on pace for 60 points over 82 games).

And he did that while playing:

- Around 15 minutes a night (not on the 1st power-play)
- On the 3rd line with Brown and Marleau (not Matthews)
- With 5.4% shooting on the year (50% of his career average)

Max Domi had the exact same type of season (6% shooting) before he was traded.
He bounced back real quick ... and so will Nylander.


I guess I should have been more clear, I don't have problem with Nylander at $7M. I have a problem with Nylander being at $7M on TOR team with MM, AM and JT. And of course the way this whole situation was handled by GM. Nylander was supposed to be traded after JT was brought over and when it became obvious that he wants around $7m. But to be fair JT should have never been brought to TOR on the first place and MM and AM should have been signed simulteneously, with same term at the exactly same amount. (ala Toews and Kane). That is how you build a young team and make it unified instead of bringing attention to the money and petty sh*t.
Jun 20, 2019 at 2:21
#103
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,717
Likes: 535
Quoting: WellIDK
Well he was looking for a long term 6,500,000 contract back then but Vegas offered 3,000,000 less. Everybody knew he wouldn't have a similar season last year, but he had still a good season. His past two seasons were better than the career seasons of Nelson and Hayes. Even though Karlsson doesn't have the same leverage as a RFA, I don't see him sign any extension lower than 7,000,000. Vegas is in cap hell right now so I wouldn't be surprised if any team would offer sheet him at 7,500,000 for 5-7 years.


I agree ... I think he could easily get 7.5 - 8.5 million on the open market right now (especially since Skinner already got 9 million with a 63 point career high).

I just depends on if he wants to stay in Vegas long term or take a 1 year deal and go to UFA (or push for a trade to a team that would pay him now).
Jun 20, 2019 at 2:32
#104
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 226
Likes: 169
Quoting: Rangsey
Yes on many of your points. Except Tampa is a bad example. LA is a great example.

Girardi isnt on Tampa's books and Callahan's contract is up when Tampa have to resign Sergachev, Vasilevskiy, Cirelli and Joeseph.

Tampa's problem isnt overpaying aging vets its handing out NTCs to role players and middle 6 guys.



I don't think Tampa has big big problems, the reason they were in on trying to get Karlsson or Tavares was because they have so many reasonably priced contracts, that moving them isn't overly difficult. I would agree that racking up these NTCs to middle six type players could prove an issue if they keep going that route. Tampa would be more comfortable though, if they didn't have Callahan basically providing 4th line production for $5.8M, and the combo of him and Girardi were getting over $9M going into last year.

I think paying your superstars big money, a few very high end complimentary pieces decent money, and filling out the rest as you go has the best chance to keep your cap the cleanest. Tampa has deals now that it may have to move to shed money, but Johnson and Miller likely aren't hard to move and get something for, because the amounts and ages are reasonable. I do think they will come to regret the McDonagh signing though, that may not age well.
Jun 20, 2019 at 3:13
#105
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,717
Likes: 535
Edited Jun 20, 2019 at 3:28
Quoting: vmach
I guess I should have been more clear, I don't have problem with Nylander at $7M. I have a problem with Nylander being at $7M on TOR team with MM, AM and JT. And of course the way this whole situation was handled by GM. Nylander was supposed to be traded after JT was brought over and when it became obvious that he wants around $7m. But to be fair JT should have never been brought to TOR on the first place and MM and AM should have been signed simulteneously, with same term at the exactly same amount. (ala Toews and Kane). That is how you build a young team and make it unified instead of bringing attention to the money and petty sh*t.


Agree - but I don't have a problem with the Tavares signing.

My biggest issue (A MASSIVE ISSUE FOR ME) is that all three of them should have been signed last summer.

I would've been fine with Dubas bending a little to make everyone happy and get it done quick (they still wouldn't have been anywhere near as expensive as they are now).

Nylander would still have been at $7,000,000 x 6 (maybe 7 years if all 3 signed around the same time - and he wouldn't have missed games).
Marner would have been around $8,000,000 x 6/7 (his agent asked for $9,000,000 on an 8 year deal last summer - according to the media).
Matthews would have been around $10,000,000 x 6/7 (similar AAV to Eichel but less term as a bonus - and a bit less than Tavares after s bidding war).

Instead they just wait it out and watch Marner play with with Tavares .... did you not expect him to explode in production ??? (Matthews took a leap in PPG as well).

And if Nylander was on Matthews wing all season ... Kapanen wouldn't have put up anywhere near 50 points ... so we would've been going into this season with something like:

$11,000,000 x 6 = Tavares
$10,000,000 x 6 = Matthews
$ 8,000,000 x 6 = Marner
$ 7,000,000 x 6 = Nylander
$ 2,000,000 x 4 = Kapanen

Which would have been around $5,000,000 cheaper with the core locked in for an extra year.

Rant over.
Jun 20, 2019 at 4:18
#106
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 334
Likes: 92
Quoting: drewjenks
Agree - but I don't have a problem with the Tavares signing.

My biggest issue (A MASSIVE ISSUE FOR ME) is that all three of them should have been signed last summer.

I would've been fine with Dubas bending a little to make everyone happy and get it done quick (they still wouldn't have been anywhere near as expensive as they are now).

Nylander would still have been at $7,000,000 x 6 (maybe 7 years if all 3 signed around the same time - and he wouldn't have missed games).
Marner would have been around $8,000,000 x 6/7 (his agent asked for $9,000,000 on an 8 year deal last summer - according to the media).
Matthews would have been around $10,000,000 x 6/7 (similar AAV to Eichel but less term as a bonus - and a bit less than Tavares after s bidding war).

Instead they just wait it out and watch Marner play with with Tavares .... did you not expect him to explode in production ??? (Matthews took a leap in PPG as well).

And if Nylander was on Matthews wing all season ... Kapanen wouldn't have put up anywhere near 50 points ... so we would've been going into this season with something like:

$11,000,000 x 6 = Tavares
$10,000,000 x 6 = Matthews
$ 8,000,000 x 6 = Marner
$ 7,000,000 x 6 = Nylander
$ 2,000,000 x 4 = Kapanen

Which would have been around $5,000,000 cheaper with the core locked in for an extra year.

Rant over.


Well, I think those numbers are way too low. Nylander and Hayes just signed to over $7m and you want Marner to be at $8M? But forget it, the point is moot really.
You have way too many impact forwards and not enough D. All you need is MM and AM as your superstars and Nylander and Kapanen or Johansen as your two star depth players.
I mean don't take me wrong if you can have JT and AM and MM all sign at under $7M each, ala Boston, well more power to you, but the thing is you can't, so you can't have them.

You can still keep MM and JT and AM, and KK, and AJ, you can make it work, you will have to pay to get rid of Marleau, trade Zaitzev and let Gardiner go, etc, but this superstar, top heavy team will not be sustainable. You will have to heavily rely on ELCs and you won't be getting any high picks with this superstar lineup, so just as soon as your ELCs become good enough to make an impact you will have to let them go, because you can't pay them, so its a vicious cycle.

If I were GM, I would bag Tavares to waive his NMC, trade him and acquire two excellent shutdown Dmans. I would then go to Marner and tell him, sorry for misunderstanding, give him his "A" captaincy, and match his contract with AM, with longer term. Done. Well, I'd still get rid of Zaitsev and Marleau if I could, sign all RFAs and now I'm building a team to compete for the cup from 2021 to 2025. Unless cup is not what you are after and all TOR wants is to have a Cirque du Soleil on ice.

And if you can't win with Mathews, Marner, Kapanen, Johanson plus depth, and improved D, then you probably need a better coach.
Jun 20, 2019 at 8:13
#107
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,717
Likes: 535
Quoting: vmach
Well, I think those numbers are way too low. Nylander and Hayes just signed to over $7m and you want Marner to be at $8M? But forget it, the point is moot really.
You have way too many impact forwards and not enough D. All you need is MM and AM as your superstars and Nylander and Kapanen or Johansen as your two star depth players.
I mean don't take me wrong if you can have JT and AM and MM all sign at under $7M each, ala Boston, well more power to you, but the thing is you can't, so you can't have them.

You can still keep MM and JT and AM, and KK, and AJ, you can make it work, you will have to pay to get rid of Marleau, trade Zaitzev and let Gardiner go, etc, but this superstar, top heavy team will not be sustainable. You will have to heavily rely on ELCs and you won't be getting any high picks with this superstar lineup, so just as soon as your ELCs become good enough to make an impact you will have to let them go, because you can't pay them, so its a vicious cycle.

If I were GM, I would bag Tavares to waive his NMC, trade him and acquire two excellent shutdown Dmans. I would then go to Marner and tell him, sorry for misunderstanding, give him his "A" captaincy, and match his contract with AM, with longer term. Done. Well, I'd still get rid of Zaitsev and Marleau if I could, sign all RFAs and now I'm building a team to compete for the cup from 2021 to 2025. Unless cup is not what you are after and all TOR wants is to have a Cirque du Soleil on ice.

And if you can't win with Mathews, Marner, Kapanen, Johanson plus depth, and improved D, then you probably need a better coach.


I'm talking about LAST summer (when there was still some debate over who was better between Nylander and Marner - they had about the same career points).

And it was stated in the media (around August) that Marners agent was asking $9,000,000 for an 8 year contract.

So a 6 year contract at $8,000,000 would have made them pretty damn happy at that point.
Jun 21, 2019 at 12:44
#108
jbus03
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 58
Likes: 10
bad on paper but honestly i dont mind the deal, philly was in a spot to overpay
Mar 13, 2020 at 6:36
#109
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 9,641
Likes: 2,401
The Duke of Dorchester is the King of this Thread.
 
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