MIN needs to sweeten that deal

If lots of people are saying no, maybe you do. Personally, I think Minnesota needs to add. Greenway is slightly older and hasn't produced to the same degree as Kap. Kap is also a great threat on the PK.

Trocheck would be so huge, but I doubt Florida makes this trade since they are going hard after Panarin and Bob. Right now I'm not even sure if they have the space to sign both, but after this trade they definitely wouldn't have the space.

Not sure who we could take back other than Hoffman, who I want nothing to do with.

Florida deal decent in value, could happen depending on the Panarin and Bobrovsky stuff. But I think Spurgeon is a bit overrated by the Wild fans on here. Not sure he's worth the 13th overall pick basically.

& you can stop with the Kapanen for Greenway deal. Just because you say it makes sense or should happen, doesn't mean it does. It actually doesn't. It's a lateral move for Toronto. Minnesota is getting more value out of the deal, so if it would happen, yes in fact Minnesota adds slightly.
Oh and Toronto is reportedly not willing to move Kapanen for a d-man & last I checked Greenway isn't a d-man. His brother is this, oh wait, Toronto already has his brother in the organization. The trade doesn't make sense. Value is off slightly. & logic is off. Idk how many people or how many times you gotta be reminded of that, but that's the way it is.

He's not overrated at all. Here's what The Athletic's national analytics writer had to say about Spurgeon being underrated nationally. The numbers are rankings among all NHL D, not just RD.

"Jared Spurgeon
Game Score: 0.74 (19th)
WAR/82: 3.4 wins (9th)
GSVA: 2.2 wins (20th)
Player Rating: 79.6 (18th)
Value: Average No. 1 defenceman

Perception: I like this pick [of being underrated] a lot. Spurgeon gets lost in the shuffle in Minnesota next to the more offensively gifted Matt Dumba and veteran stalwart Ryan Suter, but he may be the overlooked key piece back there. He’s a bonafide number one defenceman by every metric listed, but I’m not sure that’s a consensus opinion held by most fans. Underrated sounds very right.

The diminutive defenceman has long been championed as an underrated player in the analytics community and it’s cool to see the players going to bat for him. Spurgeon really moves the needle in terms of shot rates and can contribute at both ends of the ice, and while he may not be an elite number one defenceman, he’s closer to it than what public perception may believe."

He's an offensive minded d-man. His defensive analytics actually aren't all that great.

What specific analytics are you looking at?

https://public.tableau.com/profile/christopher.turtoro#!/vizhome/2-yearA3ZPlayerComps/ComparisonDashboard

Look at his year from this past season (I know it doesn't track every game, but it's a good sample size). He actually wasn't that great offensively either. But his defensive entries, defensive breakups, and possession entires are all pretty low for a true "#1 d-man". Really the only thing that he was above average in all year was breaking the puck out. He didn't even generate a lot of offence this year.. that doesn't scream #1 d-man at all.

What... they tracked 18 games for 18/19, that's far from a sufficient sample size.

that's over 20% of the season.. that's a pretty good sample size for how a guy plays. The stats say he's not a #1. & he's definitely not a good pairing with Rielly. Spurgeon needs a defensive guy to get him the puck and then Spurgeon breaks the puck out. He might be a good fit for Muzzin but that's Toronto's second pair. On Toronto, Sprugeon would have the 4th best analytics behind Rielly, Muzzin, and Dermott (assuming Gardiner leaves).. not exactly a #1

My career is in statistics. You're out of your mind if you think 20% of the season is a sufficient sample size and I can tell you've never watched the guy since he's saved our ass countless times on the ice. If you can give me a sample size that covers nearly a full season (>90%), then we'll talk, but until then I'll trust The Athletic writer that also has a career in statistics over somebody on the internet trying to say an 18 game sample size is enough for meaningful data.

Lol. He's the 4th best d-man on the Leafs. Even the Toronto players have a smaller sample size, and they still have better analytics than Spurgeon. Stats are stats.

Cap situation Might mean can't do the 1st pick and second wild player... So who is the better match going to FLA in this trade for Trocheck? Because I agree that I don't see FLA having the cap for Panarin and Bob and Zucker and Spurgeon

But stats are meaningless if it's a tiny sample size. Take this example: you meet somebody through mutual friends and get to know this person sporadically over 2 weeks. Do you know everything there is to know about this person over sporadic meetings for 2 weeks? Absolutely not. The same is true with statistics in sports and in general, you need a very large sample size before you can begin judging a player's ability and to judge them off of 20% in one season is asinine. I'd even call a full season of 82 games a small sample size, players have up and down years.

Not sure, I think the trade is fine value-wise, but the cap is the big issue. We'd probably have to take Reimer and Pysyk or something.

I don't understand why people are high on Greenway. He's a big guy who moves the puck well, but he doesn't grind in the corners and he doesn't shoot. There have been a few flashes on partial breakaways where he stays strong on the puck and can drive a defender... But I'm seeing him as Coyle 2.0.

That's not a good thing. For those B's fans who only saw Coyle in Boston. He was energized to play for the cup at home. Wait until you see a full season of him refusing to go in the corner and turning away from contact and passing up shots.

I take Pysyk in a heartbeat in this trade. He's only one year at 2.75M. This is a Zucker, Spurg combo trade that I would actually support and that's hard for me to say, because I love both of them as players and as people.

Right...I just meant that it might not make sense for both of them to go to FLA

Gotcha. Sounds like Fenton doesn't want to trade Spurgeon anyways, even if it might be the smart thing to do. He also said he doesn't have any trades lined up for Zucker.

Fenton on initial mtg with Jared Spurgeon's agent: “I thought it was real positive. He wants to be here and wants to make it work and wants to hear what our vision is and what we’re looking towards doing with him in the future. I want him to be a longtime Minnesota Wild guy.”

— Michael Russo (@RussoHockey) June 21, 2019

Just chatted with Paul Fenton after the #NHL GM's meetings. He says as of now he's not close on any trades.

"I don’t have anything going right now," but he adds things often happen Friday and Saturday during Draft weekend

— Michael Russo (@RussoHockey) June 21, 2019

I'm still hoping we take Newhook at 12 and trade Zucker for 14-18 and grab Tomasino.

I love Spurgeon. I want him to have a chance to win. Because of that, I hope he gets dealt to Tampa or someone else with a legitimate shot at the cup.

And I am happy to keep Zucker around, but we need to at least make a few adjustments...

I love him too and I agree, I think trading him is the smart move. We probably aren't serious contenders for a few years and if we re-sign him we'll waste the better years he has left in him. I'd love to swing for the fences and try to land Marner even if we'd have to overpay him, but I don't think Spurgeon is the D Toronto would ask for. Same goes for Point I'd think.



I am as well, I've always liked Zucker, but having 1 right shot forward in our top 9 was a major issue. Fortunately Dumba started playing the left circle spot on the PP which helped a lot until he was injured, but ideally we trade for another top 6 right shot guy to help scoring off of rushes and on the PP. We will see I guess...