Forums/Armchair-GM

The 2016 Penguins Were Much Better Than The Blues

Initial Creation Date: Jun 20, 2019
Published: Jun 20 at 9:15 pm
Team: 2019-20 Pittsburgh Penguins
Team Explanation
I will say this. This St Louis Blues cup winning team is no where near as impressive as the 2016 Pittsburgh Penguins. How can we compare a team that relies on heaviness, grit and intimidation to a team that dominated using speed, skill and creativity? The Penguins played much more beautiful hockey during their run. Plus they won much more convincingly as they outplayed every team in possession, offensive zone time, shots and chances created. The Blues were not as capable in carrying the play compared to the Penguins. There shouldn’t be any debate over this, anyone with hockey knowledge will admit that the Penguins’ 2016 cup was the true definition of how hockey should be played. They were clean, disciplined, fast, skillful and creative with their play style. Totally on a different level.
Free Agent Signings
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Kunitz, Chris3$4,000,000
Cullen, Matt1$1,000,000
Fehr, Eric3$2,000,000
Lovejoy, Ben3$3,000,000
CREATEDYEARSCAP HIT
Kunhackl, Tom1$1,000,000
Trades
PIT
  1. Sheary, Conor
BUF
    PIT
    1. Bonino, Nick
    NSH
      PIT
      1. Hagelin, Carl
      WSH
        PIT
        1. Cole, Ian
        COL
          PIT
          1. Määttä, Olli
          CHI
            PIT
            1. Daley, Trevor
            DET
              PIT
              1. Fleury, Marc-André
              VGK
                DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
                2019
                PIT
                BUF
                PIT
                TBL
                PIT
                VGK
                2020
                PIT
                PIT
                PIT
                PIT
                PIT
                PIT
                2021
                PIT
                PIT
                PIT
                PIT
                PIT
                PIT
                PIT
                ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
                24$82,000,000$102,582,499$132,500$0-$20,582,499

                Roster

                Left WingCenterRight Wing
                BUF
                Sheary, Conor
                $3,000,000
                LW, RW
                UFA - 1
                PIT
                Crosby, Sidney
                $8,700,000
                C
                NMC
                UFA - 6
                PIT
                Guentzel, Jake
                $6,000,000
                LW, RW
                UFA - 5
                PIT
                Rust, Bryan
                $3,500,000
                RW, LW
                UFA - 3
                PIT
                Malkin, Evgeni
                $9,500,000
                C
                NMC
                UFA - 3
                Kunitz, Chris
                $4,000,000
                RW, LW
                UFA
                WSH
                Hagelin, Carl
                $2,750,000
                LW
                UFA - 4
                NSH
                Bonino, Nick
                $4,100,000
                C
                UFA - 2
                PIT
                Kessel, Phil
                $6,800,000
                RW
                NMC NTC
                UFA - 3
                Kunhackl, Tom
                $1,000,000
                PIT
                Cullen, Matt
                $1,000,000
                C, LW
                UFA
                PIT
                Hörnqvist, Patric
                $5,300,000
                RW
                NTC
                UFA - 4
                Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
                PIT
                Dumoulin, Brian
                $4,100,000
                LD
                UFA - 4
                PIT
                Letang, Kris
                $7,250,000
                RD
                NMC NTC
                UFA - 3
                PIT
                Murray, Matt
                $3,750,000
                G
                RFA - 1
                COL
                Cole, Ian
                $4,250,000
                LD
                UFA - 2
                PIT
                Schultz, Justin
                $5,500,000
                RD
                NTC
                UFA - 1
                VGK
                Fleury, Marc-André
                $7,000,000
                G
                NTC
                UFA - 3
                CHI
                Määttä, Olli
                $4,083,333
                LD
                UFA - 3
                Lovejoy, Ben
                $3,000,000
                RD
                UFA
                ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
                PIT
                Simon, Dominik
                $750,000
                RW, LW
                RFA - 1
                DET
                Daley, Trevor
                $3,166,666
                RD
                NTC
                UFA - 1
                PIT
                Bjugstad, Nick
                $4,100,000
                C, RW
                UFA - 2
                Fehr, Eric
                $2,000,000
                C, RW
                UFA
                PIT
                Gudbranson, Erik
                $4,000,000
                RD
                UFA - 2
                PIT
                Ruhwedel, Chad
                $700,000
                RD
                UFA - 2
                PIT
                Johnson, Jack
                $3,250,000
                LD
                UFA - 4
                PIT
                DeSmith, Casey
                $1,250,000
                G
                UFA - 3
                PIT
                Kahun, Dominik
                $925,000
                LW, RW, C
                RFA - 1
                PIT
                McCann, Jared
                $1,250,000
                LW, C
                RFA - 1

                Special Teams

                Power Play 1
                Kessel, P.
                Crosby, S.
                Hörnqvist, P.
                Schultz, J.
                Malkin, E.
                Power Play 2
                Kunitz, C.
                Bonino, N.
                Guentzel, J.
                Sheary, C.
                Letang, K.
                Penalty Kill 1
                Bonino, N.
                Hagelin, C.
                Dumoulin, B.
                Letang, K.
                Penalty Kill 2
                Cullen, M.
                Kunhackl, T.
                Cole, I.
                Lovejoy, B.

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                Jun 20 at 9:22
                #1
                Okrepps85
                Joined: Sep 2017
                Posts: 1,431
                Likes: 137
                Jake Guentzel wasn't on this team.

                Lines were

                43-87-72
                14-71-17
                HBK
                34-7-16

                58-8
                28-4
                3-6

                30/29

                Dupuis (IR) Bennett, Zatkoff, Cole, Sundqvist scratches
                Jun 20 at 9:24
                #2
                Chicago
                Joined: Jun 2015
                Posts: 3,950
                Likes: 882
                Literally every team in the past 10 years was way better than the blues. This season was the biggest outlier of the past 10 and it's really not close.
                okrepps185 liked this.
                Jun 20 at 9:25
                #3
                Thread Starter
                BrandonDubinskyGoat
                Joined: Apr 2019
                Posts: 2,164
                Likes: 453
                Quoting: okrepps185
                Jake Guentzel wasn't on this team.

                Lines were

                43-87-72
                14-71-17
                HBK
                34-7-16

                58-8
                28-4
                3-6

                30/29

                Dupuis (IR) Bennett, Zatkoff, Cole, Sundqvist scratches


                Yes you are right, thanks for the information. But still, this Penguins team was way better than the Blues.
                Jun 20 at 9:26
                #4
                Joined: May 2018
                Posts: 1,875
                Likes: 691
                Who cares? The 2019 blues were far superior than the 2019 penguins
                Jun 20 at 9:27
                #5
                Thread Starter
                BrandonDubinskyGoat
                Joined: Apr 2019
                Posts: 2,164
                Likes: 453
                Quoting: NickC1988
                Literally every team in the past 10 years was way better than the blues. This season was the biggest outlier of the past 10 and it's really not close.


                The 2016 Penguins were the best Stanley Cup Champions over the past 10 years. They were more dominant in controlling the play even compared to the 2012 Kings and 2013 Blackhawks. They are the only team I’ve seen generate as much zone time, puck possession, shots and chances on a nightly basis, yet giving up so little.
                Jun 20 at 9:29
                #6
                Thread Starter
                BrandonDubinskyGoat
                Joined: Apr 2019
                Posts: 2,164
                Likes: 453
                Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
                Who cares? The 2019 blues were far superior than the 2019 penguins


                That’s not the point. The Blues won by playing extremely heavy, cheap, dirty, reckless and violent hockey. Their game plan was to intimidate their opponent as much as possible. As much as physical play is part of hockey, the true way to play the sport is to dominate using your skating, agility, stick handling, creativity and talent with the puck. The 2016 Penguins were far better.
                Jun 20 at 9:30
                #7
                Joined: May 2018
                Posts: 1,875
                Likes: 691
                Quoting: MichaelFu
                That’s not the point. The Blues won by playing extremely heavy, cheap, dirty, reckless and violent hockey. Their game plan was to intimidate their opponent as much as possible. As much as physical play is part of hockey, the true way to play the sport is to dominate using your skating, agility, stick handling, creativity and talent with the puck.


                And they won the cup, so who cares.
                okrepps185 liked this.
                Jun 20 at 9:30
                #8
                Chicago
                Joined: Jun 2015
                Posts: 3,950
                Likes: 882
                Quoting: MichaelFu
                The 2016 Penguins were the best Stanley Cup Champions over the past 10 years. They were more dominant in controlling the play even compared to the 2012 Kings and 2013 Blackhawks. They are the only team I’ve seen generate as much zone time, puck possession, shots and chances on a nightly basis, yet giving up so little.


                That's debatable. 2012-2013 hawks were 36-7-5 in a lockout shortened 82 game season. On pace for what tampa achieved.
                okrepps185 liked this.
                Jun 20 at 9:35
                #9
                Joined: Jan 2019
                Posts: 1,370
                Likes: 459
                Quoting: NickC1988
                That's debatable. 2012-2013 hawks were 36-7-5 in a lockout shortened 82 game season. On pace for what tampa achieved.


                and you could easily argue that the 2013 Bruins team>2016 sharks team, i get that this pens team was stacked but almost every cup winning team is stacked. I also dont get why hes even making this argument at this point
                okrepps185 liked this.
                Jun 20 at 9:39
                #10
                Thread Starter
                BrandonDubinskyGoat
                Joined: Apr 2019
                Posts: 2,164
                Likes: 453
                Quoting: NickC1988
                That's debatable. 2012-2013 hawks were 36-7-5 in a lockout shortened 82 game season. On pace for what tampa achieved.


                I’m specifically talking about their performance in the playoffs, not regular season. Of course the Hawks were brilliant, but even they had games where they were under siege and outplayed by the Bruins or Kings. Aside from game 3 against the Capitals, the Penguins never let that happen during their cup run. They were always in control of the play and came up with more shots and chances at the end of the game. Even when they lost, their play was still incredibly convincing that they were that much better.
                Jun 20 at 9:40
                #11
                Chicago
                Joined: Jun 2015
                Posts: 3,950
                Likes: 882
                Quoting: shmoeman
                and you could easily argue that the 2013 Bruins team>2016 sharks team, i get that this pens team was stacked but almost every cup winning team is stacked. I also dont get why hes even making this argument at this point


                I think this argument is made because this St Louis team had one of the most unprecedented stretches of hockey we will ever see. From last at New Year's, to stanley cup champion 6 months later. The crazier part is it is hard to say any of these players are good enough to be considered hall of famers. The past 10 seasons (and you could probably go farther back), Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Toews, Kane, Keith, Bergeron, Chara, Doughty, Quick, and Kopitar are all much more likely to be hall of famers than Tarasenko, Pietrangelo, or ROR.
                Jun 20 at 9:43
                #12
                Chicago
                Joined: Jun 2015
                Posts: 3,950
                Likes: 882
                Quoting: MichaelFu
                I’m specifically talking about their performance in the playoffs, not regular season. Of course the Hawks were brilliant, but even they had games where they were under siege and outplayed by the Bruins or Kings. Aside from game 3 against the Capitals, the Penguins never let that happen during their cup run. They were always in control of the play and came up with more shots and chances at the end of the game. Even when they lost, their play was still incredibly convincing that they were that much better.


                I think 2013 Boston was a much better opponent than 2016 San Jose, but this argument could go on for hours if you want to start nitpicking intangibles
                Jun 20 at 9:48
                #13
                Thread Starter
                BrandonDubinskyGoat
                Joined: Apr 2019
                Posts: 2,164
                Likes: 453
                Quoting: shmoeman
                and you could easily argue that the 2013 Bruins team>2016 sharks team, i get that this pens team was stacked but almost every cup winning team is stacked. I also dont get why hes even making this argument at this point


                That Bruins team had: Bergeron, Marchand, Jagr, Krejci, Lucic, Horton, Seguin, Chara, Krug, Seidenberg & Rask. The Sharks had Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture, Hertl, Donskoi, Zubrus, Burns, Martin & Jones. Sure, maybe the Bruins were a little better but pretty much on the same level. The only reason why you think the Hawks had tougher competition was because the Penguins beat the Sharks extremely convincingly, which proves their superiority. I’m not even talking about which team was more stacked, simply which one played more dominant on the ice.
                Jun 20 at 9:50
                #14
                MisstheWhalers
                Joined: Jan 2019
                Posts: 5,395
                Likes: 1,658
                What was the commonality between the 16 Pens and the 19 Blues though?
                Both were veteran teams with mostly guys in their primes.
                Jun 20 at 9:53
                #15
                Sam
                Joined: Jan 2018
                Posts: 3,348
                Likes: 1,219
                Lol, the Blues won because they were the best defensive team in the league, not because they played physical. When Pietrangelo and Parayko can play 53 minutes a night and you have a good goalie, nobody’s doing much scoring. Sure the Blues don’t have the luxury of a Crosby or Malkin, but every single forward on the Blues (except Fabbri) was effective in the playoffs. Schwartz, ROR, Schenn, and even Tarasenko won’t wow you with points, but they’re committed two way players. The Blues are different than previous cup winners, but not in the way that the media claims they are.
                rja40 liked this.
                Jun 20 at 9:55
                #16
                Thread Starter
                BrandonDubinskyGoat
                Joined: Apr 2019
                Posts: 2,164
                Likes: 453
                Quoting: NickC1988
                I think 2013 Boston was a much better opponent than 2016 San Jose, but this argument could go on for hours if you want to start nitpicking intangibles


                You are wrong, the Sharks were actually a force to be reckoned with during that 2016 cup run. You are downplaying their brilliance because the Penguins beat them in a lopsided 6 game series in which they were heavily outplayed. Keep in mind that before the series started, almost all experts predicted that the Sharks would crush the Penguins in 4 or 5 games.
                Jun 20 at 10:00
                #17
                Thread Starter
                BrandonDubinskyGoat
                Joined: Apr 2019
                Posts: 2,164
                Likes: 453
                Quoting: STLBlues17
                Lol, the Blues won because they were the best defensive team in the league, not because they played physical. When Pietrangelo and Parayko can play 53 minutes a night and you have a good goalie, nobody’s doing much scoring. Sure the Blues don’t have the luxury of a Crosby or Malkin, but every single forward on the Blues (except Fabbri) was effective in the playoffs. Schwartz, ROR, Schenn, and even Tarasenko won’t wow you with points, but they’re committed two way players. The Blues are different than previous cup winners, but not in the way that the media claims they are.


                😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

                You’re delusional if you think this Blues team is on the same level as the 2016 Penguins. The Blues won because they intimidated their opponents, the Penguins won because of their skill. Tell me which is more impressive? Also, the 2016 Penguins had the better defensive play throughout the playoffs. They conceded fewer shots, attempts and chances than this current Blues team. Most of the time they were in the offensive zone cycling the puck and creating chances. As they often say it, attack is the best type of the defense. That’s what the Penguins did. Not downplaying the Blues’ achievement, the Penguins were simply better.
                Jun 20 at 10:04
                #18
                Thread Starter
                BrandonDubinskyGoat
                Joined: Apr 2019
                Posts: 2,164
                Likes: 453
                Quoting: MisstheWhalers
                What was the commonality between the 16 Pens and the 19 Blues though?
                Both were veteran teams with mostly guys in their primes.


                Only difference was that the penguins were clearly better. Plain and simple.
                Jun 20 at 10:04
                #19
                Joined: May 2018
                Posts: 1,875
                Likes: 691
                Quoting: MichaelFu
                😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

                You’re delusional if you think this Blues team is on the same level as the 2016 Penguins. The Blues won because they intimidated their opponents, the Penguins won because of their skill. Tell me which is more impressive? Also, the 2016 Penguins had the better defensive play throughout the playoffs. They conceded fewer shots, attempts and chances than this current Blues team. Most of the time they were in the offensive zone cycling the puck and creating chances. As they often say it, attack is the best type of the defense. That’s what the Penguins did. Not downplaying the Blues’ achievement, the Penguins were simply better.


                But why does it matter? Why are you comparing a 2019 cup winning team to a 2016 cup winning team? It doesn't matter how they won
                rja40 liked this.
                Jun 20 at 10:08
                #20
                Sam
                Joined: Jan 2018
                Posts: 3,348
                Likes: 1,219
                Quoting: MichaelFu
                😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

                You’re delusional if you think this Blues team is on the same level as the 2016 Penguins. The Blues won because they intimidated their opponents, the Penguins won because of their skill. Tell me which is more impressive? Also, the 2016 Penguins had the better defensive play throughout the playoffs. They conceded fewer shots, attempts and chances than this current Blues team. Most of the time they were in the offensive zone cycling the puck and creating chances. As they often say it, attack is the best type of the defense. That’s what the Penguins did. Not downplaying the Blues’ achievement, the Penguins were simply better.


                I never said they were better, but imagine thinking the Blues won because they “intimidated their opponents.” That is a hilariously false statement. The Blues were 24th in hits during the regular season and had 0 suspensions. They had way more hits in the Boston series than the other 3 which was because Boston was easily the best team they played and they had to play without the puck a lot more. The Blues didn’t have the offense to roll over teams, but they had the structure and defense to beat anyone.
                Jun 20 at 10:13
                #21
                Thread Starter
                BrandonDubinskyGoat
                Joined: Apr 2019
                Posts: 2,164
                Likes: 453
                Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
                But why does it matter? Why are you comparing a 2019 cup winning team to a 2016 cup winning team? It doesn't matter how they won


                I hear people saying all the time that this Blues team was better than the 2016 Penguins. I’m simply trying to prove that it is not the case.
                Jun 20 at 10:15
                #22
                Thread Starter
                BrandonDubinskyGoat
                Joined: Apr 2019
                Posts: 2,164
                Likes: 453
                Quoting: STLBlues17
                I never said they were better, but imagine thinking the Blues won because they “intimidated their opponents.” That is a hilariously false statement. The Blues were 24th in hits during the regular season and had 0 suspensions. They had way more hits in the Boston series than the other 3 which was because Boston was easily the best team they played and they had to play without the puck a lot more. The Blues didn’t have the offense to roll over teams, but they had the structure and defense to beat anyone.


                Yes there’s no denying that the Blues cup win was deserved and that they were better than the Bruins, but they were still more intimidating and less skilled than the 2016 Penguins.
                Jun 20 at 10:16
                #23
                Joined: May 2018
                Posts: 1,875
                Likes: 691
                Quoting: MichaelFu
                I hear people saying all the time that this Blues team was better than the 2016 Penguins. I’m simply trying to prove that it is not the case.


                Where are you hearing that at?
                Jun 20 at 10:17
                #24
                Sam
                Joined: Jan 2018
                Posts: 3,348
                Likes: 1,219
                Quoting: MichaelFu
                Yes there’s no denying that the Blues cup win was deserved and that they were better than the Bruins, but they were still more intimidating and less skilled than the 2016 Penguins.


                Ok fine
                Jun 20 at 10:20
                #25
                Joined: Jun 2017
                Posts: 74
                Likes: 5
                WTF does this have to do with anything? Why are you creating a very random and disconnected comparison? What does this have to do with CapFriendly's Armchair GM tool? What. The. Eff.
                okrepps185 liked this.
                 
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