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Give something to get something

Created by: hullabaloo86
Team: 2019-20 Buffalo Sabres
Initial Creation Date: Jun. 27, 2019
Published: Jun. 27, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Leverage Vegas cap situation to obtain defensive quality and the 2nd line centre we need. Get scoring and defensive depth through small UFA acquisitions. Hockey trade Risto for a good forward.
Give Okposo away unless he picks up. Sobotka waive or KHL. But this is within cap and lots of prospect options.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
3$2,000,000
3$2,000,000
2$1,500,000
1$1,500,000
1$750,000
1$750,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
3$3,000,000
3$2,500,000
Trades
1.
2.
BUF
  1. Gusev, Nikita [RFA Rights]
  2. Miller, Colin
  3. Stastny, Paul
  4. 2020 3rd round pick (VGK)
VGK
  1. Nylander, Alexander
  2. 2020 2nd round pick (BUF)
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the DAL
2021
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the STL
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
2022
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
Logo of the BUF
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
26$81,500,000$80,587,500$0$4,740,000$912,500
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$9,000,000$9,000,000
LW, RW
NMC
UFA - 8
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$10,000,000$10,000,000
C
UFA - 7
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$767,500$767,500 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$6,500,000$6,500,000
C, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$3,650,000$3,650,000
RW
UFA - 1
$2,500,000$2,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
LW, C
RFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$3,000,000$3,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$925,000$925,000
C, LW
RFA - 3
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$1,500,000$1,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$6,000,000$6,000,000
RW
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$845,000$845,000 (Performance Bonus$57,500$58K)
LW, C
RFA - 2
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,850,000$3M)
LD/RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$2,750,000$2,750,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$3,387,500$3,387,500
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
$3,000,000$3,000,000
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Vegas Golden Knights
$3,875,000$3,875,000
RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$1,500,000$1,500,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$2,250,000$2,250,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$812,500$812,500
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$1,300,000$1,300,000
RD
UFA - 1

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Jun. 27, 2019 at 6:58 a.m.
#1
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You need to get better at player assessment and relative cap payment structures before making anymore of these AGMs
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Jun. 27, 2019 at 7:00 a.m.
#2
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SabreDownunder
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Ooph. Harsh! Why is that?
Jun. 27, 2019 at 7:36 a.m.
#3
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Quoting: hullabaloo86
Ooph. Harsh! Why is that?


Well that Vegas trade is just terrible. I know Vegas wants to move some cap but they aren't doing that.

You trade Nylander (who hasn't played a full season in the NHL) and a pick for a #1/2 centre, a top 4 D, a good prospect, and a pick. Nylander and the 2nd might get you Gusev and a 3rd.
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Jun. 27, 2019 at 7:40 a.m.
#4
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SabreDownunder
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What gets me the Vegas package I proposed ?

They are almost $10m over the cap. They have to give something to get rid of the excess. Toronto gave a package to Carolina to take Marleau.

Stastny is also mid 30s and has declining numbers of late. He’s a 2nd C at best more likely a third these days.
Jun. 27, 2019 at 7:52 a.m.
#5
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Quoting: hullabaloo86
What gets me the Vegas package I proposed ?

They are almost $10m over the cap. They have to give something to get rid of the excess. Toronto gave a package to Carolina to take Marleau.

Stastny is also mid 30s and has declining numbers of late. He’s a 2nd C at best more likely a third these days.


Teams will pay to get Stastny and Miller. They are not moving Stastny. Marleau is 40 and made $6.25m, Leafs had to give up something to move him. Stastny is 30 and Miller under 30, and Gusev is young. You have to look at the Vancouver and Tampa trade for JT Miller. Tampa was in cap trouble and they got a 1st round pick, 3rd round pick, and a goalie prospect for over $5m in cap space. That trade is your comparable.
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Jun. 27, 2019 at 7:54 a.m.
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Stastny is not a 3C. He's responsbile defensively and is a face-off machine. If he wasn't injured he was on pace for a 70 point season. That trade offer is not at all reasonable
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Jun. 27, 2019 at 7:57 a.m.
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SabreDownunder
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Quoting: nchest
Teams will pay to get Stastny and Miller. They are not moving Stastny. Marleau is 40 and made $6.25m, Leafs had to give up something to move him. Stastny is 30 and Miller under 30, and Gusev is young. You have to look at the Vancouver and Tampa trade for JT Miller. Tampa was in cap trouble and they got a 1st round pick, 3rd round pick, and a goalie prospect for over $5m in cap space. That trade is your comparable.


Ok I’m happy with that feedback. At least your constructive and not outright abusive like the first guy.
If you take out Stastny for Eakins are we getting closer?
Jun. 27, 2019 at 7:58 a.m.
#8
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SabreDownunder
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Quoting: bigguycom
Stastny is not a 3C. He's responsbile defensively and is a face-off machine. If he wasn't injured he was on pace for a 70 point season. That trade offer is not at all reasonable

Value decrease cos he’s injured and declining and has two years left. What about Reinhart to get the deal done?
Jun. 27, 2019 at 8:21 a.m.
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Quoting: hullabaloo86
Ok I’m happy with that feedback. At least your constructive and not outright abusive like the first guy.
If you take out Stastny for Eakins are we getting closer?


Its hard to say. Miller seems to have a lot of value per some as a top 4 D and others as a 3rd pair D. I think Vegas gets a prospect and pick for Miller or a 2nd and 3rd rounder. If you are offering Nylander and a 2nd for Eakins, Miller, Gusev, and a 3rd you likely have to add something. If Gusev is asking for to much money as a RFA, they may move him and it should cost something to move Eakins cap hit. So you might just have to add a B level prospect to make that work.
Jun. 27, 2019 at 8:34 a.m.
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Quoting: hullabaloo86
Ok I’m happy with that feedback. At least your constructive and not outright abusive like the first guy.
If you take out Stastny for Eakins are we getting closer?


Seriously? Abusive? If people can't handle being criticized then maybe they should just stay in their boxes. How will you ever handle the real world, a work atmosphere, human interactions, etc.? I absolutely can not stand these unwarranted sensitive snowflake types who play the victim card and cry wolf when spewing ridiculousness then gets corrected with logic. YOU made a silly AGM and I pointed out, with 2 (two) very distinct reasons as where you went wrong with it. YOU didn't like the response and decided to go in a complete different direction with it by trying to put the focus on me and hoping others would feel sorry for you instead of manning up and assuming the responsibility for your actions.

A normal response to my comment would have been something like...

1. How do you view the trades in terms of the player assessments I made?
2. How do you view the signings I made?
3. What would you have done differently?

Those three questions would have provoked a rational debate and we could have shared our thoughts and opinions on the subject in a mature manner. I would have answered those three questions if I were presented the opportunity instead of being labeled an abuser. Hopefully you see your errors in how you handled this situation and respond accordingly next time. If you would like to revisit this topic, I would gladly engage in dialog with you but if you are going to behave immaturely, I will not be interested in continuing this conversation any further.
Jun. 27, 2019 at 8:37 a.m.
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Eichel Tower
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Edited Jun. 27, 2019 at 10:46 a.m.
Quoting: WhatsaMaattaWithYou
You need to get better at player assessment and relative cap payment structures before making anymore of these AGMs

There have been some very strange deals with cap dumps. Marleau and Miller at opposite ends of the spectrum. Marleau and a first? Wow, I thought at most it would take is a second or a middling prospect. Marleau has talent and was brought in to provide leadership to the Leafs. On the other hand, Miller's salary and production are out of sync. Helping Tampa by giving up a first for Miller is one that should get everyone upset.
While I agree, it is unlikely that this will get the job done, it is nice to dream. LOL
Quoting: hullabaloo86
Ooph. Harsh! Why is that?

The trade favors Buffalo, I would love to get Miller and Stastny. I think it would take more than a 2nd and Nylander.
Quoting: nchest
Well that Vegas trade is just terrible. I know Vegas wants to move some cap but they aren't doing that.
Now that they have moved Haula for a "C" prospect and a fifth so who knows what they will do to shed cap.
You trade Nylander (who hasn't played a full season in the NHL) and a pick for a #1/2 centre, a top 4 D, a good prospect, and a pick. Nylander and the 2nd might get you Gusev and a 3rd.

Yup, I would love to get both Miller and Stastny for that.
Quoting: bigguycom
Stastny is not a 3C. He's responsbile defensively and is a face-off machine. If he wasn't injured he was on pace for a 70 point season. That trade offer is not at all reasonable

Not even close in my mind either.
Jun. 27, 2019 at 9:28 a.m.
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Quoting: GMTD
There have been some very strange deals with cap dumps. Marleau and Miller at opposite ends of the spectrum. Marleau and a first? Wow, I thought at most it would take is a second or a middling prospect. Marleau has talent and was brought in to provide leadership to the Leafs. On the other hand, Miller's salary and production are out of sync. Helping Tampa by giving up a first for Miller is one that should get everyone upset.
While I agree, it is unlikely that this will get the job done, it is nice to dream. LOL

The trade favors Buffalo, I would love to get Miller and Stastny. I think it would take more than a 2nd and Nylander.

Yup, I would love to get both Miller and Haula for that.

Not even close in my mind either.


I agree and to think the 1st w Marleau has set the new standard to what it will cost to dump salary. If VAN were giving up a 1st, they should have went after a different player and since TB needed cap relief, VAN could have used that to their advantage. Imagine what PIT has to give up to remove themselves from Johnson, Gubransson, Hornqvist and Bjugstad. I don't see how teams can continue to be contenders on a yearly basis by paying mid tier players and bottom 6 players monies that should given to your top 2 starting lines. Since when should a 20 goal scorer be paid almost 7m per year? It's insane.

Contracts should be performance based and bonuses paid should not reflect negatively towards the cap. The cap structure should allow a premium payment for players who have expired their RFA status and players entering and in their athletic primes. Once a player hits 31yrs of age, a new structure should be set to recognize the start of regression in performance and decline in abilities. By the time a players' "premium contract" has expired, said player should be financially secure enough to be able to live, save, etc. on the "regression contract". I'm not saying to pay an older player RFA money, but no way should they be making upwards of 10% of a teams total cap hit. There could be a clause set in, that if a player, once they hit 31 and has 2 or 3 years of declining numbers in a season, injuries exempt, their contract would be reworked to fit within a certain parameter. An example, if a player makes a base salary of 8m per year, played all 82 games and only put up 40 points when they used to average 70+ points in their prime years, they would get a base salary of 4m with performance bonuses. Spezza, Seabrook, Lucic, Ryan, Kesler, Erickson and even Toews to an extent, are all decent examples of bad contracts and payments on past performances. Paying certain players, especially role players based on past performance is bad business. Paying the "Stanley Cup Tax" on UFAs from most recent championships is also not wise. The CBA and NHL need to find a middle ground on how to handle the cap situation. Soon, players who deserve to be in the NHL won't be able to because they will price themselves out of the league and teams will consist of 2 solid lines of quality players and the bottom pairings will be nothing but sub-par players, RFAs and undrafted players.
Jun. 27, 2019 at 10:43 a.m.
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Eichel Tower
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Quoting: WhatsaMaattaWithYou
I agree and to think the 1st w Marleau has set the new standard to what it will cost to dump salary. If VAN were giving up a 1st, they should have went after a different player and since TB needed cap relief, VAN could have used that to their advantage. Imagine what PIT has to give up to remove themselves from Johnson, Gubransson, Hornqvist and Bjugstad. I don't see how teams can continue to be contenders on a yearly basis by paying mid tier players and bottom 6 players monies that should given to your top 2 starting lines. Since when should a 20 goal scorer be paid almost 7m per year? It's insane.

Contracts should be performance based and bonuses paid should not reflect negatively towards the cap. The cap structure should allow a premium payment for players who have expired their RFA status and players entering and in their athletic primes. Once a player hits 31yrs of age, a new structure should be set to recognize the start of regression in performance and decline in abilities. By the time a players' "premium contract" has expired, said player should be financially secure enough to be able to live, save, etc. on the "regression contract". I'm not saying to pay an older player RFA money, but no way should they be making upwards of 10% of a teams total cap hit. There could be a clause set in, that if a player, once they hit 31 and has 2 or 3 years of declining numbers in a season, injuries exempt, their contract would be reworked to fit within a certain parameter. An example, if a player makes a base salary of 8m per year, played all 82 games and only put up 40 points when they used to average 70+ points in their prime years, they would get a base salary of 4m with performance bonuses. Spezza, Seabrook, Lucic, Ryan, Kesler, Erickson and even Toews to an extent, are all decent examples of bad contracts and payments on past performances. Paying certain players, especially role players based on past performance is bad business. Paying the "Stanley Cup Tax" on UFAs from most recent championships is also not wise. The CBA and NHL need to find a middle ground on how to handle the cap situation. Soon, players who deserve to be in the NHL won't be able to because they will price themselves out of the league and teams will consist of 2 solid lines of quality players and the bottom pairings will be nothing but sub-par players, RFAs and undrafted players.


Great analysis. You make a very good point, but so many teams are in the win now mode that they will jump at signing UFA if a GM thinks it put the team into the playoffs.
Just for fun, click on Okposo, then compare his current contract. Look at top 3 comparable: Lucic, Milan, Turris, Kyle and Horton, Nathan. While some do very well, Tavares and JVR come to mind, there are too many who do not.
I hope Betterall does not sign a big name UFA and continues to follow the steady progress path of trading with teams who want to deal (I.e. Anaheim and Carolina, Montour and Skinner).
It is too bad that the Sabres could not pick up Haula. He has a low cap, decent past performance and only had to give up a 5th (conditional) and a "C" prospect. I just noticed, I said Haula instead of Stastny in my comment above. LOL. I am going to correct it now.
On the other hand, unless at least 3 of Thompson, Olofsson, Nylander, Pilut, Mittelstadt, Ruotsalainen or Cozens (not likely), can perform at top six or second pairing NHL caliper, we will be a lottery team again and miss the playoffs.
Jun. 27, 2019 at 10:55 a.m.
#14
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Quoting: GMTD
Great analysis. You make a very good point, but so many teams are in the win now mode that they will jump at signing UFA if a GM thinks it put the team into the playoffs.
Just for fun, click on Okposo, then compare his current contract. Look at top 3 comparable: Lucic, Milan, Turris, Kyle and Horton, Nathan. While some do very well, Tavares and JVR come to mind, there are too many who do not.
I hope Betterall does not sign a big name UFA and continues to follow the steady progress path of trading with teams who want to deal (I.e. Anaheim and Carolina, Montour and Skinner).
It is too bad that the Sabres could not pick up Haula. He has a low cap, decent past performance and only had to give up a 5th (conditional) and a "C" prospect. I just noticed, I said Haula instead of Stastny in my comment above. LOL. I am going to correct it now.
On the other hand, unless at least 3 of Thompson, Olofsson, Nylander, Pilut, Mittelstadt, Ruotsalainen or Cozens (not likely), can perform at top six or second pairing NHL caliper, we will be a lottery team again and miss the playoffs.


In my opinion, Botteril was the architect of the Penguins back to back runs. Once he left to go to Buffalo, Rutherturd (I know the misspelling but that should be his real name), has completely disregarded the game plan and used his dinosaur mentality of old time hockey in trying to revamp the teams identity into something that will not play to their strengths and prevent them from getting over the edge and back to champions. I wish Rutherturd would have retired and promoted Botteril. All Rutherturd has done is hand out hefty contracts to mid-tier players, trade away any and all assets trying to find that missing piece.

There's only a handful of FAs I would go after if there was any cap space to do so. The next Pens GM is gonna have his hands full and it's sad to say but in my opinion, I don't see the Penguins winning another championship in the Crosby/Malkin era. Too much damage control needs to be done and it will require losing a piece or two of the core.
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Jun. 27, 2019 at 12:10 p.m.
#15
Eichel Tower
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Quoting: WhatsaMaattaWithYou
In my opinion, Botteril was the architect of the Penguins back to back runs. Once he left to go to Buffalo, Rutherturd (I know the misspelling but that should be his real name), has completely disregarded the game plan and used his dinosaur mentality of old time hockey in trying to revamp the teams identity into something that will not play to their strengths and prevent them from getting over the edge and back to champions. I wish Rutherturd would have retired and promoted Botteril. All Rutherturd has done is hand out hefty contracts to mid-tier players, trade away any and all assets trying to find that missing piece.

There's only a handful of FAs I would go after if there was any cap space to do so. The next Pens GM is gonna have his hands full and it's sad to say but in my opinion, I don't see the Penguins winning another championship in the Crosby/Malkin era. Too much damage control needs to be done and it will require losing a piece or two of the core.


OMW I agree completely. You provided such great insight, I knew you could not be a Sabres fan. Since my family moved from the Pittsburgh area to Buffalo before I was born, I grew up a Steelers and Penguins fan.
IMO Rutherford needs to face up and start all over while Crosby and Malkin have maximum value.
I met Betterall (yup that is my misspelling) only once and I think he is a true gentleman. The manner in which he stayed connected with Lehner I am sure was out of compassion and not out of duty.
BTW, as a Sabres' fan, i would like to see Bonino between Rodrigues and Sheary. They would get a ticket every night for breaking the speed limit.
Jun. 27, 2019 at 7:20 p.m.
#16
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SabreDownunder
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Quoting: WhatsaMaattaWithYou
You need to get better at player assessment and relative cap payment structures before making anymore of these AGMs


So how does one get better at this? I appreciate your feedback and maybe I was a little sensitive. Im kind of new to all this as fun as it is I simply dont know the technicalities.

My rationale was that VGK need help in dumping cap. So they would have to pay and make some hard calls. I probably underpaid it now knowing what you guys have imparted on me.
Jun. 28, 2019 at 6:16 a.m.
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Quoting: hullabaloo86
So how does one get better at this? I appreciate your feedback and maybe I was a little sensitive. Im kind of new to all this as fun as it is I simply dont know the technicalities.

My rationale was that VGK need help in dumping cap. So they would have to pay and make some hard calls. I probably underpaid it now knowing what you guys have imparted on me.


Gunnarsson just got a 1.75m per year, 2 year contract compared to the 3m contract you gave him. Ferland, Micheal will certainly get more than 2m per year. You just have to see what players of comparable stats, age and skill sets are getting offered in real life and go from there. Most people overvalue their hometown players and devalue opposing teams players which results in poorly constructed AGMs because of bias and opinions instead of facts. Some people make these AGMs without noticing the trading partners teams needs and/or wants and try to make moves and unrealistically manipulate salary just to fit within the cap.
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