Yes a lot of people speak of the demise of the jets, I think some of there losses are a plus on salary cap side and also opening up some minutes for fresh blood to make a name for themselves or prove some doubters wrong, jets have a few guys sitting in both those categories sitting in the wings, we will see how it works out

One unlucky play and he blows his knee and has to retire and then what? Zero endorsements and all that money he left on the table is gone. He is looking out for his future, the media has blown everything our of proportion and he hasn't even technically held out yet. Everyone should settle down and stop being overly emotional. It's not healthy to get so emotionally invested in something none of us can control. Just enjoy the ride.

Well said, I hold no grudges with him, just question advice, and or logic behind the decision making, shelf the greed and or ego today for god like possibilities in the future, and money he could never spend. Get your base 8x whatever insurance policy and stay out of your own way, and live every kids dream of success in your home city

At a certain point isn’t just a number in a bank account, won’t seem overly real, is he not leaving money on the table, going from a 8year term to 5 as rumours go, my thought was a 8x 10 base fully insured and guaranteed over say his 5x11 and change, and getting his 80 guaranteed over trying to hit again in 5 years after collecting his 60 ish, my main point is fighting for top dollar worth, in any way messing with his perfect image.

It only affects his perfect image with fickle fans. Especially when it's not yet mid July. Are fans in Tampa, Winnipeg, or Colorado calling out their unsigned big ticket RFA's left and right? Nope only in TO. As a Leaf fan it's embarrassing to see this.

Well said

He is already relatively heavily endorsed by a number or Toronto or at least Canadian based companies, those companies will quickly drop him if hes an Islander or a Devil. That Apple ad never happens if hes not a leaf I have no idea why whoever is advising him isn’t using this factor, because doesn’t Ferris also get a cut of all that?

I can agree it’s early, it just has the looks of no win for either side trouble, hometown kid element puts it in a different level, I couldn’t imagine a wpg kid in the same boat, He would get shredded alive at any sort of sign of holdout or greed.

And anyone can have him for $10.5 million. He is good yes. But not worth that money. Just not.

The Aho contract stands as a comparable folks. This isn't open to much debate. 49, 65, 83 points over the last 3 years playing the more difficult position; in Carolina (who finally showed up this year), with Terrevanen as a primary linemate (Neideritter was a great addition).

Marner: 61, 69, 93 points over the last 3 years. First 2 with Kadri - who in terms of offensive skill set is similar to Terrevanen imo..... then last year Tavares - a world class talent.

So folks let's REALLY think here. Is Marner, a winger with a superior linemate and a whole 10 more points than Aho worth THAT much more than the guy who plays the more difficult position, with linemates that simply don't measure up to Tavares? Come on..... thenl last 2 seasons the offensive output has been so similar the difference is negligable. Wait? What if Aho was playing with a guy like a resurrgent Skinner or a Taylor Hall or a Teresenko? (A reasonable Tavares comparison on wing). Does he still put up 83 points? Think people think!

Marner is over pricing himself. He should be getting the same cash as Aho - and facts and factors support my thinking. If the term is longer, I see and increase in $$$, but not to the tune of $12.5 million.

At $10.5 million, the anyone can have him. For as good as he is and can be, his season last year is as much a basis of skill as it was playing with Tavares.

Kinda the same as Comrie did a few years back, Edmonton ate him alive for I believe was a trade request holdout of some sort, to give a ugly path where this could go, not that Comrie and marner are all that similar

Signs of greed he says after saying holdout. Again, its July 9th. There are literally months until this is a hold out. We really don't know anything about whats going on and if you listen to Dubas, who in my opinion is the only person that can really be trusted, both sides are working away towards a deal. The media blows it up because when the do, idiots lose their minds and spend hours commenting on their articles arguing about a situation they don't understand using information that is likely not correct along the way. Speculation is now reporting and reality doesn't matter, all that matters is emotions and getting those emotional responses.

Why is he greedy? If anything the fans are greedy to expect people to give up money to make them happy

Marner is a star and wants to get paid like it, if that is indeed the case, I respect that. I don't think its an animosity thing or any thing other than a player looking at the market and wanting to find his place in it. He's going to get paid big and it'll be fine and work out. Dubas won the Nylander negotiations and we'll see what Matthews next deal comes in as but I think they'll win that one too. And Marner will be a win, because he's a star player and they earn their money.

The biggest area of success for Dubas has been with FA and secondary player negotiations. Look at Johnsson and Kapanen, on most teams those guys would have been given much bigger contracts. Tom Wilson in Washington anyone? He isn't at all a 5 million dollar player, Hayes, Skinner, JVR? The list is endless of middle of the road guys getting big money because teams think the secondary players have a bigger impact than they do. Pay the stars and make everyone else fit, its not alienate the stars and make them earn less so you can overpay the other guys. That doesn't make any sense.

Most fans still think that depth players matter. They do but not nearly as much as people think they do. The difference between a 2nd line winger and a bubble player isn't that far off but the difference between and elite player and an average player is massive. Pay the stars, and make everyone else fit if they want to be part of a winning team. That is the model more and more teams are going to start using and Dubas is at the forefront of that.

He however failed to manage his stars. None of marner, nylander or Matthews signed early and thus far none signed for max term.

People killed buffalo for the eichel contract and it is quickly looking like a bargain.

So will Nylander's deal. Matthews changed the market and I understand why, look at how contracts are getting out of hand, look at anyone who's contract looks like a deal. Why lock in for 8 years when you can sign for shorter term and ensure you aren't leaving money on the table in years 5-8?

Many people say Matthews set this up so he can leave in 5 years, I don't think that played much into his decision making. What I think is he understands that if you have shorter term, you can ask for a big cap hit on your next contract still. Had he signed for 8 years, he'd be 30 when his new deal is coming around and as we have seen time and again, signing a 30 year old to a massive contract almost never works (Burns is an exception, but Perry, Getzlaf, etc). I would assume (if I was an agent) that eventually GM's will wise up and stop giving big term and dollars to guys leaving their 20's, so why tie yourself down for your whole prime, when you can still ask for a huge contract albiet on a shorter term as you leave your 20's. Then in your early 30's ask for some security on a front loaded longer term deal that averages out to a much lower cap hit?

That's what I'd do and that is clearly where the market is headed, so Dubas didn't fail, he's adapting to the new market and a smart person would see this coming.

I just see marner as the next Gretzky type celebrity selling everything from ford to his own wine collection, possibly his own Toronto restaurant, and a shortsighted contract squabble this summer could put a mark and or delay on all that, I’m all for getting what he figures he worth or owed, but there something to be said about a smart look at it, just imagine the image he would have, if he would make it look like he left some money on the table with the team, and all about team attitude. The more marketability he’s got the more major campaigns he’s going to land, and the more dough he’s going to make, also move down the list of reasons there wasn’t success. In saying any of this, I got nothing against marner or anything he does, I just think his representation is thinking of themselves getting paid over what is best for marner, long term, what if he gets hurt or has a nasty slump or two, all of sudden he’s number one enemy and run out of town, especially if he demands to be paid the most on the team

Again, one unlucky injury ends it all. A fair contract is security. Also it's July 9th.

Your injury argument, doesn’t hold up if the only thing holding this up is length of contract, he wants to cash again in 5 years, which you can’t blame him obviously, but as I’ve said before short sighted view.

How is this short sited? Because it's inconvenient for fans? Come on dude, a shorter term is fine and also can help with roster management in the future. When these guys want 8 year deals in 5 years, Dubas can say," sure but the cap hit will be lower, we can predict a decline in your 30's, so if you want top dollar it's going to be a short term deal but we're happy to keep going shorter as long as you keep playing so well. So let's go for 4 years on the next one at top dollar or we can go under market but give you term on a front loaded deal. ".

The only short sighted thing is fans wanting to eat their cake and have it too.

We must be hearing different rumours, because what I hear is leafs are fine with number, just want to buy some ufa years with that number, and marners camp just wants the 5 years over 8, which you can’t blame them. My argument is Marners marketability and being a leaf is worth way more than any squabble over term or dollar figure, and why do anything to mess with it or tarnish it, not too say he has by any means, just the prospect of it on the horizon, would scare me if I’m in marners camp. I’m talking 20 years ago fleury signed in ny for 6 million per with rangers and 6 million per with Nike, both 3 year deals, that addiction got in the way of any more lucrative deals. So 20 years later and hometown boy makes the leafs, not only makes it but a star on the ice and possibly in front of the camera, and can’t come to terms on his contract that is probably going to be probably less than half of his earnings for the year if he so chooses. I don’t have anything in the fight either way, but as I’ve shown it blows my mind a little, a fellow could have the world by the balls if he can just get out of his own way. He may still but the shine and awe shucks kid gleam, maybe gone for ever, I know it is a business, at the end of the day and he needs to take care of himself and anybody else he chooses. We will have to agree to disagree on this one, thank you for the friendly banter and argument

Any time! Also one last thing, lets wait until September before we start calling this a protracted squable. Its July 10th.