SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

No Dzingel - WTF Holland

Created by: CD282
Team: 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers
Initial Creation Date: Jul. 12, 2019
Published: Jul. 12, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
WTF is Holland doing? Not a single player added to the top-6 and a bunch of tweener bets in the bottom-6... for a guy whose stated goal is to make the playoffs he sure isn't too worried about improving the roster.
Free Agent Signings
CREATEDYEARSCAP HIT
Not, Dzingel
2$3,375,000
Buyouts
Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
2021
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
2022
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$79,371,999$0$2,457,500$2,128,001
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$8,500,000$8,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 6
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$12,500,000$12,500,000
C
UFA - 7
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,950,000$1,950,000
RW
UFA - 1
Not, Dzingel
$3,375,000$3,375,000
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$6,000,000$6,000,000
LW, C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$2,150,000$2,150,000
RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,200,000$1,200,000
LW, C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$637,500$638K)
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$2,835,000$2,835,000
RW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$5,250,000$5,250,000
LW, RW
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$675,000$675,000
C
RFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,300,000$1,300,000
RW, LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$925,000$925,000
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$750,000$750,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$4,167,000$4,167,000
LD
UFA - 4
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$4,166,666$4,166,666
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$4,500,000$4,500,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$3,200,000$3,200,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,900,000$1,900,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$2,000,000$2,000,000 (Performance Bonus$1,750,000$2M)
G
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$720,000$720,000 (Performance Bonus$70,000$70K)
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD/RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,000,000$1,000,000
RD
UFA - 1

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Jul. 12, 2019 at 11:08 a.m.
#26
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 23,958
Likes: 7,726
Quoting: coga16
They do not need complimentary pieces...they have a terrible bottom 6, terrible goalies, and a bad D core. Fix that first


Holland's solution to the terrible bottom-6 was to sign guys out of European leagues and the AHL
Holland's solution to the goaltending issue was to sign 37-year-old Mike Smith
Holland's solution to the "bad D core" was to buyout Sekera and add... nobody, because the D core is good enough in his opinion

Holland's solution to the lack of depth scoring was, again, to do nothing

Now do you see why I'm frustrated?
Jul. 12, 2019 at 11:20 a.m.
#27
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: CD282
This I cannot agree with. Edmonton has some very good prospects in the pipeline - mostly on defense, but a few decent forwards as well.

Bouchard is a good prospect but the rest are middling guys that at best I feel will be decent 2nd pair guys or bottom 4 defenders. I won't look at this years picks because they are part of what I think Edmonton needs to do, which is draft and develop talent but looking back at the past 3-5 years of drafting and Edmonton has done a incredibly terrible job. I can't say for certain if its drafting or development that deserves the lion share of the blame but comparing development in TO to Edmonton and its a pretty sad comparison. Justin Brazeau is getting access to the Leafs practice facility all summer and has skating classes with Barb Underhill 3-4 times a week. He wasn't even drafted!

Meanwhile Edmonton has had zero meaningful contributions from anyone drafted outside of the 1st round in a decade. I double checked and went back as 2008 and there is no one.

So... the answer is to go out and sign more guys who aren't worthy of playing on any team in the league? Because that's what Holland has done, and that's why I'm frustrated.


Signing players isn't the answer in the cap world. You get supplemental help from FA's and generally want to make minor adjustments. Look at almost all the big signings over the past 5 years or so, almost all are disasters. There are some decent ones but more often than not, its failed (Lucic anyone?).

Holland decided to take on the worst situation in the league and has to fix it while dealing with a hungry fan base. He has to do this despite Chiarelli leaving him with both hands tided behind his back.
Jul. 12, 2019 at 11:23 a.m.
#28
PhoneyAnteater
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 235
Likes: 82
Quoting: LoganOllivier
That's the catch 22, its such a bad situation that there is almost no solution. I think you say to McDavid, we are going to be really bad for a couple of years and you are going to have almost no support but after we reset our drafting and development program, we anticipate having a lot of young exciting players for you to lead to the playoffs. Until then though, we need to be realistic, Chiarelli was the worst GM ever and he's made a huge mess.


The Oilers have been saying that for 10 years
Jul. 12, 2019 at 11:29 a.m.
#29
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2015
Posts: 20,030
Likes: 12,187
Quoting: CD282
Holland's solution to the terrible bottom-6 was to sign guys out of European leagues and the AHL
Holland's solution to the goaltending issue was to sign 37-year-old Mike Smith
Holland's solution to the "bad D core" was to buyout Sekera and add... nobody, because the D core is good enough in his opinion

Holland's solution to the lack of depth scoring was, again, to do nothing

Now do you see why I'm frustrated?


I see why it would be frustrating for an Oilers fan, but the Ferland/Dzingle out cry for why didnt you sign them is misplaced bc of all those moves that were done...those are the big flaws and there are probably even worse off now. A 2nd/3rd line Winger would do nothing to correct the issues of the roster build.

In reality, they shouldnt have re-upped Chiasson and used that money to invest in an actual winger upgrade. I think thats another wasted move. could have just moved on from him and thank him for that cheap service last year. Now you have term on a guy who really should be deep in your bottom 6 if it was a true playoff roster build. But now are forced to play him in the top 6...thats just asking for trouble
Jul. 12, 2019 at 11:30 a.m.
#30
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: Phoneyanteater123
The Oilers have been saying that for 10 years


So whats the answer, magically turn all the crap players they have into surefire NHLers? Or take the time to turn the franchise into a modern NHL franchise. One that puts big resources into player development and scouting. Take time to draft and develop good young players with skill. Then hopefully be able to give McDavid hope that there is a future in Alberta.

If you don't do that, he's gone in 2 seasons. And if your star wants out, the return isn't going to be as good as you want it to be, he'll dictate where he goes and that will hurt even more than all this losing.
Jul. 12, 2019 at 11:38 a.m.
#31
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24,997
Likes: 7,855
Quoting: coga16
I see why it would be frustrating for an Oilers fan, but the Ferland/Dzingle out cry for why didnt you sign them is misplaced bc of all those moves that were done...those are the big flaws and there are probably even worse off now. A 2nd/3rd line Winger would do nothing to correct the issues of the roster build.

In reality, they shouldnt have re-upped Chiasson and used that money to invest in an actual winger upgrade. I think thats another wasted move. could have just moved on from him and thank him for that cheap service last year. Now you have term on a guy who really should be deep in your bottom 6 if it was a true playoff roster build. But now are forced to play him in the top 6...thats just asking for trouble


To be contenders the Oilers need a 3C, and 4-5 new wingers for the top 3 lines. That is 6 new players, on defence they need a #1 and top pair counterpart, and 2-3 other replacements. They also need a goalie, and they also need to shed about 20 million of dead cap space. There is no quick and easy way to do that. There will be pain and Oiler fans need to be okay with that.
Jul. 12, 2019 at 12:59 p.m.
#32
Capology Master
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 258
Likes: 29
Quoting: coga16
They do not need complimentary pieces...they have a terrible bottom 6, terrible goalies, and a bad D core. Fix that first


if the Oil had any production from the bottom 6 last year and if the goalie made some saves, they would have been pushing for a playoff spot. I am ok with the moves made so far. Short term deals for bottom 6. Do not make ridiculous overpayments or guys who are barely a 2nd line guy. Bakersfield has some great options but most are likely a year away. Stay the course and see what we have this year. Chia is getting destroyed by everyone saying he was the worst GM ever but these same people want the Oil to overpay again. It might suck but keep drafting and once there is more cap space, spend wisely. Nurse will be looking for a raise next year. If he is asking for north of 6.5M like other dmen are now, I would move him too
Jul. 12, 2019 at 1:09 p.m.
#33
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 23,958
Likes: 7,726
Quoting: coga16
In reality, they shouldnt have re-upped Chiasson and used that money to invest in an actual winger upgrade. I think thats another wasted move. could have just moved on from him and thank him for that cheap service last year. Now you have term on a guy who really should be deep in your bottom 6 if it was a true playoff roster build. But now are forced to play him in the top 6...thats just asking for trouble


Yes. Exactly.
Jul. 12, 2019 at 1:16 p.m.
#34
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 23,958
Likes: 7,726
Quoting: LoganOllivier
To be contenders the Oilers need a 3C, and 4-5 new wingers for the top 3 lines. That is 6 new players, on defence they need a #1 and top pair counterpart, and 2-3 other replacements. They also need a goalie, and they also need to shed about 20 million of dead cap space. There is no quick and easy way to do that. There will be pain and Oiler fans need to be okay with that.


There will be pain... what "pain" has Holland inflicted? He has engineered the most dull, boring summer of just about any GM in the league. He has signed 5 AHLers, 2 guys from Europe, an ancient goalie and three 4th liners. And what exactly has he accomplished towards his stated goals of making the playoffs and building an annual contender? NOTHING. Of all the items you listed, which has Holland addressed with his limited resources? NONE OF THEM.

*facepalm
Jul. 12, 2019 at 1:25 p.m.
#35
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 23,958
Likes: 7,726
Quoting: Connors_Real_Agent
if the Oil had any production from the bottom 6 last year and if the goalie made some saves, they would have been pushing for a playoff spot. I am ok with the moves made so far. Short term deals for bottom 6. Do not make ridiculous overpayments or guys who are barely a 2nd line guy. Bakersfield has some great options but most are likely a year away. Stay the course and see what we have this year. Chia is getting destroyed by everyone saying he was the worst GM ever but these same people want the Oil to overpay again. It might suck but keep drafting and once there is more cap space, spend wisely. Nurse will be looking for a raise next year. If he is asking for north of 6.5M like other dmen are now, I would move him too


Who wants the Oilers to overpay? Have you not been following? This whole thing started when Carolina signed Dzingel for LESS money and LESS term than was predicted. Panik, Dzingel, Ferland, Connolly - all signed for less than was estimated, all would have contributed to an improved roster over last year.
Jul. 12, 2019 at 1:33 p.m.
#36
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2015
Posts: 20,030
Likes: 12,187
Quoting: Connors_Real_Agent
if the Oil had any production from the bottom 6 last year and if the goalie made some saves, they would have been pushing for a playoff spot. I am ok with the moves made so far. Short term deals for bottom 6. Do not make ridiculous overpayments or guys who are barely a 2nd line guy. Bakersfield has some great options but most are likely a year away. Stay the course and see what we have this year. Chia is getting destroyed by everyone saying he was the worst GM ever but these same people want the Oil to overpay again. It might suck but keep drafting and once there is more cap space, spend wisely. Nurse will be looking for a raise next year. If he is asking for north of 6.5M like other dmen are now, I would move him too


so if they had better goalies and better depth. Exactly my point.
Stay the course? There is no course my man, with the "moves" this year you can tell there is no plan in place, they are just going to ride out the year and hope for the best and deal with the fallout of what should be a complete dumpster fire of a season.
Jul. 12, 2019 at 2:52 p.m.
#37
Capology Master
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 258
Likes: 29
Quoting: CD282
Who wants the Oilers to overpay? Have you not been following? This whole thing started when Carolina signed Dzingel for LESS money and LESS term than was predicted. Panik, Dzingel, Ferland, Connolly - all signed for less than was estimated, all would have contributed to an improved roster over last year.


the guys signing for less money and less term are not coming to edmonton. That is just a reality. The only way to get a player under a decent term and cap hit are via trade and the Oil are not deep enough to do that. If they wanted Ferland or Dzingle, they would have had to overpay to make it happen. That is why I am ok not overpaying
Jul. 12, 2019 at 3:31 p.m.
#38
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 23,958
Likes: 7,726
Quoting: Connors_Real_Agent
the guys signing for less money and less term are not coming to edmonton. That is just a reality. The only way to get a player under a decent term and cap hit are via trade and the Oil are not deep enough to do that. If they wanted Ferland or Dzingle, they would have had to overpay to make it happen. That is why I am ok not overpaying


You just made that up though. You have no idea what Holland offered those players, or what they would have taken to go to Edmonton. All these guys got LESS than expected, meaning if Holland had offered them what was considered a reasonable, fair deal, it would have been the top offer on the table.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15E1qqh3OfHvvhbv_pICfKT7VR1jJEVhWQOyKviWLN54/edit#gid=707766415
Jul. 12, 2019 at 4:26 p.m.
#39
MisstheWhalers
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2019
Posts: 23,627
Likes: 12,353
Quoting: coga16
what UFA wants to sign up to join the OIlers when McDavid is on borrowed time unless they can compete next year. You dont fix and build teams in Free Agency, you add a complementary pieces, Oilers are a long way a way from adding those pieces to win.

Holland screwed up by refusing to use assets to get rid of their problems like Lucic, Kassian, Russell...and buy out Sekera should have been the last thing to do vs getting rid of those 3 scrubbos. Oilers roster is a compelte mess and they are going to have to blow it up to build, not add middle 6 wingers in Free Agency.

When they were intereviewing for the job, candidates were telling them that it would take 2 years to fix this roster and they refused to believe that so they hired a guy who was naive enough to believe this roster was good enough


Sorry this makes no sense, they shouldn't be adding complimentary pieces in free agency cause they're too far from that but they should waste assets to move Kassian and Russell to create cap space, (those two only have one and two seasons left) so what are they supposed to do with the cap space created from trading those two if not sign guys in free agency?
They don't have many trade chips from the lineup that they can afford to move and their prospect pool is not bad but can't be emptying that out either.

They can't blown it up when they have the best player in the league but wasting assets to move Kassian and Russell isn't wise, just let there contracts expire.
I agree the Sekera buyout was dumb though, if he could stay healthy he's pretty decent and to buy him out now when he's finally past his injuries was just dumb and to top it all off using that cap space to sign some mediocre to average players was even dumber.
CD282 liked this.
Jul. 12, 2019 at 4:29 p.m.
#40
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2015
Posts: 20,030
Likes: 12,187
Quoting: MisstheWhalers
Sorry this makes no sense, they shouldn't be adding complimentary pieces in free agency cause they're too far from that but they should waste assets to move Kassian and Russell to create cap space, (those two only have one and two seasons left) so what are they supposed to do with the cap space created from trading those two if not sign guys in free agency?
They don't have many trade chips from the lineup that they can afford to move and their prospect pool is not bad but can't be emptying that out either.

They can't blown it up when they have the best player in the league but wasting assets to move Kassian and Russell isn't wise, just let there contracts expire.
I agree the Sekera buyout was dumb though, if he could stay healthy he's pretty decent and to buy him out now when he's finally past his injuries was just dumb and to top it all off using that cap space to sign some mediocre to average players was even dumber.


How doesnt t his make sense.....adding fringe players around the edges arent going to make them drastically better to over come what is plaguing them. Getting rid of the anchors that are destroying the team and setting up proper roster build success is more important.

They are not 1 dzingle away from winning, they need to tear down their roster more than they need to add a middle 6 winger. either blow it now and try to show McDavid they are righting this ship while he still is engaged with the org....vs spinning your wheels, wasting 1 or 2 more of mcdavids career not winning and having an ugly roster just to watch him leave and force to blow it up.

McDavid isnt going to hang around and be patient for seasons giving them a free pass.
Jul. 12, 2019 at 7:23 p.m.
#41
MisstheWhalers
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2019
Posts: 23,627
Likes: 12,353
Quoting: coga16
How doesnt t his make sense.....adding fringe players around the edges arent going to make them drastically better to over come what is plaguing them. Getting rid of the anchors that are destroying the team and setting up proper roster build success is more important.

They are not 1 dzingle away from winning, they need to tear down their roster more than they need to add a middle 6 winger. either blow it now and try to show McDavid they are righting this ship while he still is engaged with the org....vs spinning your wheels, wasting 1 or 2 more of mcdavids career not winning and having an ugly roster just to watch him leave and force to blow it up.

McDavid isnt going to hang around and be patient for seasons giving them a free pass.


Quoting: coga16
How doesnt t his make sense.....adding fringe players around the edges arent going to make them drastically better to over come what is plaguing them. Getting rid of the anchors that are destroying the team and setting up proper roster build success is more important.

They are not 1 dzingle away from winning, they need to tear down their roster more than they need to add a middle 6 winger. either blow it now and try to show McDavid they are righting this ship while he still is engaged with the org....vs spinning your wheels, wasting 1 or 2 more of mcdavids career not winning and having an ugly roster just to watch him leave and force to blow it up.

McDavid isnt going to hang around and be patient for seasons giving them a free pass.


If you're advocating a rebuild it just doesn't make sense to me to spend assets to move Kassian and Russell when they only have a couple seasons left and during a rebuild a team is very bad anyway and the point of a rebuild is to collect assets to be a better team in the future so why spend assets to move a couple players, it just doesn't make sense. Now spending assets to move Lucic might be worth it cause he's got so much term left and his bloated salary could be even more of a problem in the future when say Bouchard needs to be resigned.

They're not one Dzingel away from winning but they're one Dzingel away from being better, add one top 6 winger plus some tweaking around the edges and this team would be better, not a contender but at least moving in the right direction.

I really don't see McDavid wanting to hang around for a rebuild to come to fruition.
CD282 liked this.
Jul. 12, 2019 at 9:31 p.m.
#42
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 23,958
Likes: 7,726
Quoting: MisstheWhalers
If you're advocating a rebuild it just doesn't make sense to me to spend assets to move Kassian and Russell when they only have a couple seasons left and during a rebuild a team is very bad anyway and the point of a rebuild is to collect assets to be a better team in the future so why spend assets to move a couple players, it just doesn't make sense. Now spending assets to move Lucic might be worth it cause he's got so much term left and his bloated salary could be even more of a problem in the future when say Bouchard needs to be resigned.

They're not one Dzingel away from winning but they're one Dzingel away from being better, add one top 6 winger plus some tweaking around the edges and this team would be better, not a contender but at least moving in the right direction.

I really don't see McDavid wanting to hang around for a rebuild to come to fruition.


I agree, the team has to start improving NOW, there isn't time to tear it down and do a full rebuild. Smart UFA signings to provide assistance for the Nuge and cover for the prospects would be a good start.
MisstheWhalers liked this.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll