If it had been done earlier like July 1st, I'd do it. But because all the free agents are now gone the extra cap space does us no good this season because we can no longer try to sign a winger like ferland or dzingle. And because we can't sign a decent winger the pick swap is riskier

It's interesting and well thought out, I'll give you that. But from Edmonton's POV, what do they need the cap space for? Who are they going to sign right now for <$5M that is worth giving up JP + a mid 1st for?

Fair enough. That pretty much answers my question regardless. How could we adjust this trade for it to still happen right now, in your mind? Assuming EDM still really wanted to sign Brassard and Boyle or Gardiner for example?

Well you have to think of it more from the flipside. What are teams even willing to give EDM to get Puljujarvi? Plus the 1st rounder may not even be a 1st rounder at the end of the day. If Edm stinks this year again, they get a worse 2nd rounder. That's it. If they do better but not better than MTL, how much better could that pick really be? MTL is no way finishing top 5-10 in the league this year so chances are this pick is only a few spots better at best.

I don't understand why people obsess about UFA's. That isn't the only way to get players. Getting the cap space means EDM can work deals for better players like Pacioretty in Vegas, which they would not be able to do otherwise with their current cap space. Doesn't have to be Patches, just saying now they are free to acquire a player with a higher cap hit if they want to also.

Lucic just might waive for his NMC for Montreal. But you can forget the swaps of picks. Can't see the Oilers finishing in the top 21. Think long term the 6m in cap space for two years longer than Alzner contract is more important to Montreal than the chance of upgrade int the picks from lets say 20 to 14. But an original thought on the trade.

MTL would say hell freaking no, 3 years of alzner at 1.325mill less than lucic is better than 4 year of lucic at 6m, Jesse has little value and is not an incentive to take on lucic. and Lucic has a NMC and thus would NEED to be protected in the Seattle expansion draft, alzner does not need to be protected, this is a massive lose lose lose for MTL on ALL fronts.

So what? If they do stink it up, Habs still upgrade their 2nd rounder with a team that just finished in the 31-40 range. That's not all that bad either. Then in the off chance they manage to make a playoff attempt and so do the Habs, the Habs get a better 1st round draft pick. The deal is conditioned so that EDM doesn't lose any major piece and still gets rid of Lucic. MTL spends a bit more dead money that they aren;t using anyway on lucic to get a prospect in Puljujarvi who doesn't want to sign in EDM anyway and a chance to upgrade a 1st, if not a 2nd worst.

Assuming the most modest case scenario. Habs take on an extra 10M in cap space over spread out over the remainder of Lucic's contract until he is bought out to get Puljujarvi and move up a couple picks in the middle 1st or move up a lot in the second. Which also happens to have the draft in MTL.

If the Habs can't use the cap space to sign prominent UFA's, this helps them cultivate their own instead. Edm gets the added cap space, moves down a draft pick and swaps a prospect who doesn't want to resign with their team anyway...

If that isn't a perfect storm, I don't know what is. Whats the alternative? Trade Puljujarvi for a 2nd rounder to whomever and then trade Lucic to Ottawa along with a 1st and Yamamoto for Boedker? Not in my humble opinion. Sure they get way more cap space but at what cost? A lot more tangible assets.

Did you read the description? You didn't did you...

Why is cap space important if you can't spend it on anyone? Did the Habs gets Tavares last year? Did they land Duchene this year? For effing sakes, the offer sheet didn't even work.... Cap space means nothing if you don't use it!

I specified that Lucic is bought out BEFORE EXPANSION.

Puljujarvi is younger than virtually every other decent Habs prospect and has a huge ceiling still in my mind but he just needs a fresh start and what better way than with countryman KK alongside. Not to mention Lehko and Armia to help guide him.

You seem to be forgetting about the draft picks...... Habs move up in the 1st round! If EDM sucks so bad and is top 10, they move up in the 2nd round. Another 2nd rounder in the draft in Montreal which we could use to move back into the 1st round again. if habs finish 22nd and Edmonton 15th, they swap picks. Habs get another shot at a Cole Caulfield instead of a Tobias Bjornfot.

I reiterate, if you do not use the cap space, than leaving it there unused is as bad as signing a player to a bad contract. It doesn't help you. This deal helps the team at only the cost of 1.5M on the cap...

Athrin pretty much summed up why this trade is terrible for Montreal, except he did not elaborate on why cap space will be important for Montreal going forward. Montreal needs the cap space for the next 2 years to sign their RFA's next year and UFA's the year after. Lucic puts that at great risk. Puli at this point is a big risk, and doesn't carry a lot of value as he has proven nothing so far, and the flipping around of draft picks is not worth nearly as much as you seem to suggest. Having to protect Lucic for the expansion draft is a heavy cost, and if you buy him out anytime in the next 2 years you take a big cap hit on buy out year, and again, you will lose your RFA's and/or UFA's. For this type of deal to be interesting to Montreal at all, the only draft pick involved would be Edmonton's first, and it would not be lottery protected. The price Edmonton pays for signing by far the worst contract in NHL history. In a nut shell, there is zero incentive to make the above deal.

Long post alert - but is worth every second of your time reading it


Nice valiant effort but you use attributes that you haven't fully done the math on where as I have. .......in an disturbingly large amount of time that should have been used working Lol. As an accountant no less, so numbers are something I specialize in. (Not bragging, just being honest)

Montreal needs cap space to sign RFA's - Habs currently have over 5M in cap space right now. The cap is expected to go up every year even if by smaller increments as it was this year, especially with expansion it should rise quite a bit. Habs have contracts coming off the books every year the next 2 also with the bulk of them coming off in year 2. What is this cap space you think the Habs don't have??? Domi easily doubles his cap 3.5 to 7M. Ok fine that is only an additional 3.5M. Who else? Mete? His comparables have him taking anywhere from 1.5-2M at MAX! An increase of 1.3M at most from his current cap. Who else?.........crickets crickets crickets. The rest are either not even super important players or they're like Poehling, Suzuki and anyone else you may be thinking of haven't even played a full season in the NHL yet. Let's tamper those expectations until we know what they can do first. Plus by the time Kotkaniemi's contract is up, Habs will have TWENTY SEVEN MILLIONS DOLLARS coming off the cap in expiring contracts. Now as for UFA's, Gallagher and Danault are the only real ones that will be resigned. Tatar will be over 30 and should not be resigned. Petry will be 34 and should not be resigned. Armia, Reilly and Weal are not important enough to HAVE to resign. Bye bye and replaced with the oodles of prospects the Habs have already. Heck Danault may even be traded as the Habs already have Domi/Kotkaniemi/Poehling/Suzuki down the middle in the pipeline....... Once again, where is the cap problem you think the habs will have? You are assuming every single player gets resigned.......leaving no spots for guys like Suzuki, Poehling, Caulfield, etc. Habs have to let guys go in order to give these guys spots eventually. Are the Habs going to ice the same team that missed the playoffs last year for the next 5 years or something? No, they are not. Many of the players on the Habs right now are stop gabs until better players arrive.

Lucic puts that at great risk. - I don't understand how Lucic puts this at a huge risk but Alzner doesn't? Is the difference between the Habs survival and death 2.6M in cap? Because that is the difference between Lucic and Alzner when he's buried in the minors. That isn't a monumental sum that will destroy worlds. PLUS AS I SAID NUMEROUS TIMES, Lucic is bought out before expansion. So he doesn't count against the protected players list AND his cap is reduced even further from the 6M to 4M & 5M respectively in the following years. I like how MB was willing to offersheet Aho for 8.5M dollars and no one batted an eye about the Habs pending UFA's and RFA's then..... The truth is, these managers have teams of accountants crunching the numbers for them and are paid handsomely to fix the problems. Making it work is not impossible. Im not worried because I've done the math, I've done the forecasting. If the Habs have to trade Paul Byron AT WORST, when he is 32 years old to make some additional space, so be it. There is a solution to every problem and making the cap work is not that big a problem. Vegas was 10M OVER THE CAP and I will bet my bottom dollar they will figure it out come September. Habs have way less to deal with so I'm pretty sure MB is smart enough to work the cap if needed.

Puli at this point is a big risk, and doesn't carry a lot of value as he has proven nothing so far, and the flipping around of draft picks is not worth nearly as much as you seem to suggest. - Pacioretty was 22 when he finally broke out. Martin St Louis 25, Turris 24, Sharp 24, Olli Jokinen 23.................................................. Puljujarvi just turned 21 years old and is coming of a hip injury that plagued him for most of the year. If you don't want to give him a shot, fine but I am more than willing to give the former 4th overall pick another shot in a better environment in which he won't have any pressure to be the guy the team drafted 4th OV and will have plenty of Finns to help guide him. Regardless, that is my opinion, you don't have to agree. What I will tell you to do is rethink the draft pick value strategy again. Go look at what the cost is to move up in the draft in the first round. Its ok, I'll wait...... Great now that you've educated yourself on the value added in moving up just ONE SPOT in the 1st round, imagine a world in 19-20 where the Habs make the playoffs and Edmonton doesn't. That isnt so farfetched now is it? Habs could move up anywhere from a modest 16th-31st all the way into the top 11th-15th. The cost associated with that kind of jump is astronomical. For example, a 3rd rounder to move up from 13th to 12th by Ottawa a couple years back. The 2020 draft is in Montreal and is going to be a heavy draft by virtually every analyst. Habs have a chance to move up into the range where those guys who were rated in the top 10, just fell out of it and now would be available for the Habs to take. Caufield and Boldy this year. Dobson and Wahlstrom the year before. Nick Suzuki and Martin Necas the year previous to that in 2017.... We're talking about getting another future core stud player. Other than Poehling, hows Montreals drafting in the non lottery picks the past 5 times? Juulsen, Scherbak, McCarron, Beaulieu, Tinordi and Leblanc.....Enough said. Drafting in the top 15 (on average) guarantees a stud player. Habs last 5 top 15 picks: Caufield, Sergachev, Kotkaniemi, Galchenyuk, McDonagh.....

Moving up in the 2020 draft could be a big deal for the Habs. I don't think you realize the potential. Its a gamble but its a calculated gamble. Habs lose nothing at worst and only gain. In the absolute worst case scenario, Edm takes another step back again and Habs only move up in the second round but this time that 2nd rounder is not top 10 (31-40) protected, so the worse they do, the better the pick is for the Habs. It could be essentially a late 1st round pick area where all the guys who just fell out of the 1st round are taken like Romanov or Debrincat for example......

So to summarize, your assuming Habs would not be able to resign their players. Yes they would, the added payment to Lucic will not effect any of that and that only sums up to about what they are currently paying Jordan Weal and Matthew Peca this year and last. IF the Habs can't live without those two players on the team, then lord help us. Puljujarvi is a wildcard of course but its not like we're gambling on a 7th round pick who hasn't played a single game of pro hockey. Puljujarvi, even if doesn't reach his full potential is an NHL'er at the very least. Big body that can shoot and skate. At worst he is a cheap 3rd line RW who has higher end skill than most 3rd liners. At best he's a top forward. The upgrade in picks has high potential to be a silly good one. I personally have the Habs making the playoffs this year and I don't for Edmonton but I do believe EDM will not be a bottom 10 team. They'll be fighting for a playoff spot. Either way, Habs swap Alzner's 4.6M for Lucic's 6M and get Puljujarvi and a draft pick upgrade in the first round as compensation. How about we look at the best case scenario? Puljujarvi establishes himself as a top 6 forward on a cheap contract because he hasn't proven enough yet and that pick becomes a Cole Caulfield instead of a Tobias Bjornfot. Yeah, I'll take that trade for an extra 2.5M that I can't use anyway because I can't get quality UFA's to sign here ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

And I haven't even gotten to the fact that maybe, even with a 10% chance, Lucic actually improves his game. He's only 30 so its not impossible although I'm not betting he will. Frankly if he can just drop the gloves every once in a while and lay a couple big hits, I'm more than happy.