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Marner Has Got To Go

Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Jul. 18, 2019
Published: Jul. 18, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Can we just stop thinking Mitch Marner should get similar money to Auston Matthews? This is getting beyond ridiculous. Ever since entering the league, no player has scored more even strength goals than Matthews, Marner is absolutely not in the same category in terms of individual ability.

William Nylander is a better individual player than Mitch Marner. So far in their careers, Nylander’s Corsi for is 54% whereas Marner’s is only 40%. In fact, each star forward on the Leafs found more success playing with Nylander than with Marner. Kadri has a .86 G/60 playing with Nylander and .85 playing with Marner. Van Riemsdyk has a 1.33 G/60 playing with Nylander and 1.18 with Marner. Tavares has a 6.27 G/60 playing with Nylander and 1.53 with Marner. Matthews has a 1.53 G/60 with Nylander and a 1.04 with Marner. Just stop for a moment and take a look at Marner’s possession metrics and advanced stats: https://imgur.com/gallery/nVdJHWP
https://imgur.com/a/j04H3vO He literally gets carried by Tavares and is only effective when JT is holding his hand. Across the past 3 seasons at 5v5 in comparison to Marner, Nylander has a higher...
iCF60: 15.03 vs 14.44
iFF60: 11.33 vs 10.64
iSF60: 7.94 vs 7.37
ixG60: 0.78 vs 0.66
So literally the only A3Z metric that rates Marner higher than Nylander across the past 3 years is...nothing.

It is utterly mind-bottling that people think Marner is comparable to Nylander- one drives play at an elite level while the other just waits around for elite centres such as Kadri and Tavares to carry him. I don’t see Marner being anywhere near Nylander’s level. Marner has been sheltered and protected by elite play driving linemates whereas Nylander’s results encompass all manner of adversity and babcock lunacy.
Honestly Mitch Marner in reality is literally the same type of player as Conor Sheary, an average or below average player in terms of skill that relies on elite centres to carry them.
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2020
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2021
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21$81,500,000$76,002,199$0$82,500$5,497,801
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G
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$863,333$863,333
LD/RD
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Jul. 18, 2019 at 6:41 p.m.
#26
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Quoting: Jangle29
Actually hes close to it. He has an elite 2 way game and is the best 5 on 5 goal scorer since he entered the league. That would be hard to not pout him in the top 5


Exactly, Matthews is already better than Malkin at his best.
Jul. 18, 2019 at 6:43 p.m.
#27
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Hmmm you’re way of speaking and almost word for word comparison seems eerily similar to that of BRANDONDUBINSKYGOAT.

Just saying.

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/252446

Scroll down for the comment.
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Jul. 18, 2019 at 6:43 p.m.
#28
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Quoting: Jangle29
Actually hes close to it. He has an elite 2 way game and is the best 5 on 5 goal scorer since he entered the league. That would be hard to not pout him in the top 5


Close to top 5.. sure close. Not close to mcdavid like seriously..?
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Jul. 18, 2019 at 6:44 p.m.
#29
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Quoting: RahefIssaLeafsHockey
Exactly, Matthews is already better than Malkin at his best.


Well now you are comparing a player who has yet to leave the 1st round to a stanley cup MVP. There are no stats to show the value of elevating your game in big games.
I am a huge Matthews fan but i think right now he is a top 4-6 player in the league
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Jul. 18, 2019 at 6:46 p.m.
#30
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Quoting: Plumber
Hmmm you’re way of speaking and almost word for word comparison seems eerily similar to that of BRANDONDUBINSKYGOAT.

Just saying.

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/252446

Scroll down for the comment.


He was doing a radio show with me on our website.
Jul. 18, 2019 at 6:47 p.m.
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Quoting: Jangle29
Well now you are comparing a player who has yet to leave the 1st round to a stanley cup MVP. There are no stats to show the value of elevating your game in big games.
I am a huge Matthews fan but i think right now he is a top 4-6 player in the league


Matthews has more even strength goals than Malkin in the last 3 seasons.
Jul. 18, 2019 at 6:47 p.m.
#32
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Quoting: Plumber
Hmmm you’re way of speaking and almost word for word comparison seems eerily similar to that of BRANDONDUBINSKYGOAT.

Just saying.

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/252446

Scroll down for the comment.


this guy is a legitimate psychopath. it's one thing to disagree with someone's takes, it's another to parrot them constantly for weeks trying to get a rise out of people, then pretending to be that person.
Jul. 18, 2019 at 6:47 p.m.
#33
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Quoting: Cheddamonkey37
Close to top 5.. sure close. Not close to mcdavid like seriously..?

Overall creating offense Mcdavid blows Matthews away. But pure goal scoring Matthews is better, and everything else involving a defensive game Matthews is better.
But the gap in just overall offense is too much. I mean Mcdavid is the best offensive player in the league and its not even close.
Crosby is still IMO the best player though, you cannot find something he is not elite at
Jul. 18, 2019 at 6:49 p.m.
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Quoting: Jangle29
Overall creating offense Mcdavid blows Matthews away. But pure goal scoring Matthews is better, and everything else involving a defensive game Matthews is better.
But the gap in just overall offense is too much. I mean Mcdavid is the best offensive player in the league and its not even close.
Crosby is still IMO the best player though, you cannot find something he is not elite at


Matthews has more even strength goals than crosby over the last 3 seasons.
Jul. 18, 2019 at 6:49 p.m.
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Quoting: mondo
this guy is a legitimate psychopath. it's one thing to disagree with someone's takes, it's another to parrot them constantly for weeks trying to get a rise out of people, then pretending to be that person.


Nylander is better than Marner. Sorry that you disagree. I have already explained everything in the bio for this team.
Jul. 18, 2019 at 6:50 p.m.
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Quoting: RahefIssaLeafsHockey
Matthews has more even strength goals than crosby over the last 3 seasons.


You keep saying one single fact though and we all hear it. There is not a GM in the league who would take Matthews over Crosby at a similar age
Jul. 18, 2019 at 6:57 p.m.
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Quoting: RahefIssaLeafsHockey
Nylander is better than Marner. Sorry that you disagree. I have already explained everything in the bio for this team.


Sure Billy Beane, lets see Dubas ship Marner off for Sheary or less than & watch mathematics work it’s thing.

Maybe we will win a championship like the Oakland Athletics under his tenure, oh wait!
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Jul. 18, 2019 at 7:03 p.m.
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Quoting: Jangle29
Actually hes close to it. He has an elite 2 way game and is the best 5 on 5 goal scorer since he entered the league. That would be hard to not pout him in the top 5


His two way game is currently mediocre and it is really holding him back. His goal scoring is off the charts but he seems to lose interest if he is playing with Hyman, Brown, Kapanen, etc.
Jul. 18, 2019 at 7:06 p.m.
#39
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Quoting: Goulet
His two way game is currently mediocre and it is really holding him back. His goal scoring is off the charts but he seems to lose interest if he is playing with Hyman, Brown, Kapanen, etc.


No its not lol he was insane during the Bruins series. Kapanen and Johnsson are complete trash defensively and he made that line respectable. He controls the puck the whole time when hes on the ice
Jul. 18, 2019 at 7:14 p.m.
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Quoting: Jangle29
Well now you are comparing a player who has yet to leave the 1st round to a stanley cup MVP. There are no stats to show the value of elevating your game in big games.
I am a huge Matthews fan but i think right now he is a top 4-6 player in the league


Top 4-6 is a big reach. Top 15-20, sure.
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Jul. 18, 2019 at 7:16 p.m.
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Quoting: Jangle29
No its not lol he was insane during the Bruins series. Kapanen and Johnsson are complete trash defensively and he made that line respectable. He controls the puck the whole time when hes on the ice


He was better in the playoffs but he got really lazy during the regular season. He has it in him but my guess is he has a problem with Babcock, some of his linemates, and his usage.
Jul. 18, 2019 at 7:19 p.m.
#42
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Quoting: Goulet
Top 4-6 is a big reach. Top 15-20, sure.


Thats ridiculous. Name 15-20 players you would pick to start a team before him
Jul. 18, 2019 at 7:21 p.m.
#43
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Quoting: Goulet
He was better in the playoffs but he got really lazy during the regular season. He has it in him but my guess is he has a problem with Babcock, some of his linemates, and his usage.


I think he was still somewhat bothered by his busted shoulder but ya he has times during the season he was not engaged. But they all did it at some points. Tavares started a bit slow, Marner has long stretches near the end where he scored at a 50 pt pace, Nylander was terrible for the first month or so. Matthews needs to be an 82 game players this season
Jul. 18, 2019 at 7:39 p.m.
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Quoting: Jangle29
I think he was still somewhat bothered by his busted shoulder but ya he has times during the season he was not engaged. But they all did it at some points. Tavares started a bit slow, Marner has long stretches near the end where he scored at a 50 pt pace, Nylander was terrible for the first month or so. Matthews needs to be an 82 game players this season


I forgot about the injuries. By year 3 of his contract we'll all know why they offered it to him.
Quoting: Jangle29
Thats ridiculous. Name 15-20 players you would pick to start a team before him

I'm not talking about potential. Right now, going into next year and looking at last year it is easy to pick 15 better players.
McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Bergeron, MacKinnon, Draisaitl, Barkov, Tavares, Stamkos, Point?, Kane, Kucherov , Stone, Ovechkin, Gaudreau, Marchand, Pastrnak. And that's without D and goalies.

On a one year at a time basis, as opposed to based on potential, he has a long ways to go before he is one of the top 5 players in the game.
Jul. 18, 2019 at 7:49 p.m.
#45
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Quoting: Goulet
I forgot about the injuries. By year 3 of his contract we'll all know why they offered it to him.

I'm not talking about potential. Right now, going into next year and looking at last year it is easy to pick 15 better players.
McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Bergeron, MacKinnon, Draisaitl, Barkov, Tavares, Stamkos, Point?, Kane, Kucherov , Stone, Ovechkin, Gaudreau, Marchand, Pastrnak. And that's without D and goalies.

On a one year at a time basis, as opposed to based on potential, he has a long ways to go before he is one of the top 5 players in the game.

I think next year out of your list
McDavid, Crosby, Bergeron, MacKinnon, Barkov, Tavares, Kucherov are the only forwards to argue are better than him that puts him at 8. Hard to add goalies and dmen in now that I think about it
Jul. 18, 2019 at 7:58 p.m.
#46
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Quoting: Jangle29
I think next year out of your list
McDavid, Crosby, Bergeron, MacKinnon, Barkov, Tavares, Kucherov are the only forwards to argue are better than him that puts him at 8. Hard to add goalies and dmen in now that I think about it


He should shoot way up the list. If he and Nylander reconnect and they have a winger like Johnsson as well, could be one of the best lines in hockey.
Jul. 18, 2019 at 8:20 p.m.
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Quoting: RahefIssaLeafsHockey
I disagree. In ice hockey, nothing beats advanced stats and possession metrics because they provide straight facts. I am someone who’s played competitive ice hockey for a decade, but even I know that. Factors such as the eye test and basic stats for example points per game are not an accurate way to assess talent and skill.


Says the same person who uses even strength goals to support his argument in the opening paragraph of the description of this thread.
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Jul. 18, 2019 at 10:09 p.m.
#48
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Quoting: Jangle29
You keep saying one single fact though and we all hear it. There is not a GM in the league who would take Matthews over Crosby at a similar age


Auston Matthews has already surpassed Sidney Crosby at his peak. Sorry that I hurt your feelings but the numbers don’t lie. Matthews has scored more even strength goals and a higher shooting percentage. He has a greater goals per 60 and his linemates all see a greater goals per 60 playing with him. Plus Matthews’ Corsi possession metrics are better.
Jul. 18, 2019 at 10:09 p.m.
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Quoting: gmurrayt
Says the same person who uses even strength goals to support his argument in the opening paragraph of the description of this thread.


Even strength goals are the most important and valuable type of point earned.
Jul. 18, 2019 at 10:12 p.m.
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Quoting: Goulet
His two way game is currently mediocre and it is really holding him back. His goal scoring is off the charts but he seems to lose interest if he is playing with Hyman, Brown, Kapanen, etc.


Matthews has one of the best 2 way games in the league. Look at his possession numbers and amount of takeaways. You people are really hopeless.
 
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