Forums/Armchair-GM

Gardiner at 5 million frontloaded for 7 years

Created by: Goulet
Initial Creation Date: Jul 25, 2019
Published: Jul 25, 2019 at 1:00 pm
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Team Explanation
7+7+6+4.5+3.5+3.5+3.5 if his back goes after 4 or 5 years, so what.

Assuming a Marner holdout is a real possibility, Ceci and or Hyman are the most likely moveable pieces to clear cap.

With all the wing depth I believe the writing is on the wall for Hyman.
Free Agent Signings
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Gardiner, Jake7$5,000,000
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
  • Robin Lehner: $1,100,000 (22%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
TOR
CBJ
TOR
VGK
TOR
CAR
COL
EDM
SJS
STL
WPG
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$75,621,366$0$0$5,878,634
Left WingCenterRight Wing
TOR
Johnsson, Andreas
$3,400,000
LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
TOR
Spezza, Jason
$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
TOR
Matthews, Auston
$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, LW
UFA - 5
TOR
Moore, Trevor
$775,000
RW, LW
RFA - 2
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
RFA - 3
TOR
Åberg, Pontus
$700,000
RW, LW
RFA - 1
TOR
Shore, Nick
$750,000
C
UFA - 1
TOR
Petan, Nicolas
$775,000
LW, RW, C
RFA - 2
TOR
Gauthier, Frédérik
$675,000
C
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
Gardiner, Jake
$5,000,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 4
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
TOR
Barrie, Tyson
$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Hutchinson, Michael
$700,000
G
UFA - 1
TOR
Marincin, Martin
$700,000
LD
UFA - 1
TOR
Ceci, Cody
$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Holl, Justin
$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
TOR
Clarkson, David
$5,250,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Horton, Nathan
$5,300,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Dermott, Travis
$863,333
LD
RFA - 1
TOR
Hyman, Zach
$2,250,000
LW
NTC
UFA - 2

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Jul 25, 2019 at 1:02
#1
KFTW
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 2,835
Who u trading to sign MArner. U need to clear like 6-7 mill
Jul 25, 2019 at 1:03
#2
Llinder2016
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 931
Likes: 122
With the Trade to get Clarkson, I think they have a deal in play but have to wait till the beginning of the season to put Clarkson’s and Horton’s contract on LTIR. They will have 10.55 when they do that, so it’s either a done deal or really close in my opinion
Jul 25, 2019 at 1:06
#3
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 994
Likes: 188
Why didnt they just not sign Ceci and let him walk. Woulda been a perfect dump of Zaitsev... or flip his rights elsewhere the next day...
Jul 25, 2019 at 1:08
#4
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 31,197
Likes: 7,793
Think has been shown the Leaf don't have the cap for a 5m even a 1m Dman with a signed Marner. And a delayed in a signed Marner raises the AAV even higher. Trading 2.4m Hyman doesn't save that much cap.
No I wouldn't sign Gardiner for five years. By the way, Marner isn't a hold out even he isn't signed by the Leafs by October. Marner is free to sign with any teams, in any league.
Jul 25, 2019 at 1:13
#5
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 31,197
Likes: 7,793
Quoting: BSpadaro83
Why didnt they just not sign Ceci and let him walk. Woulda been a perfect dump of Zaitsev... or flip his rights elsewhere the next day...


I believe the Sens had already "promised" to resign Ceci, other wise he would have been a UFA. Sens and Leafs couldn't go back on their word. You had to guaranteed his contract in order to keep his rights and therefore to flip his rights. Leafs still need a Dman to play so it's not all bad for the Leafs.
Jul 25, 2019 at 1:15
#6
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 13,403
Likes: 4,084
Quoting: BSpadaro83
Why didnt they just not sign Ceci and let him walk. Woulda been a perfect dump of Zaitsev... or flip his rights elsewhere the next day...


His qualifying offer was essentially the same thing as the contract he was offered. The Leafs weren't able to elect arbitration so it was either sign him or he took his qualifying offer. I imagine they want him coming in confident that the team wants to give him a fair chance so they gave him an honest contract. He could be traded in season.
Jul 25, 2019 at 1:17
#7
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 13,403
Likes: 4,084
The only way Gardiner signs in TO is if no one is offering him term because they are scared about his back. If that is the case, I can see him deciding to sign a 1 year cheap deal to take a run at the cup and rebuild his value so he can get a bigger deal next year. A long term deal with TO is out of the question and isn't going to happen.
Jul 25, 2019 at 1:41
#8
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 8,454
Likes: 2,446
you arent allowed to do that anymore, 35% is the most a salary can increase and decrease from the following year. 7 to 3.5m exceeds that.
Jul 25, 2019 at 1:57
#9
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,913
Likes: 413
Quoting: csick
Who u trading to sign MArner. U need to clear like 6-7 mill


Like I said up top, Ceci and Hyman are the obvious choices to clear cap but 8-10 is the max they'll need and in this case there is already 7.
Jul 25, 2019 at 2:01
#10
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,913
Likes: 413
Quoting: palhal
Think has been shown the Leaf don't have the cap for a 5m even a 1m Dman with a signed Marner. And a delayed in a signed Marner raises the AAV even higher. Trading 2.4m Hyman doesn't save that much cap.
No I wouldn't sign Gardiner for five years. By the way, Marner isn't a hold out even he isn't signed by the Leafs by October. Marner is free to sign with any teams, in any league.


The whole point here is to show that they do have the space. They can open up another 1.5 just by sending Mikheyev down and waiving Gauthier. And I doubt they're done trading.

I offered 7 years to keep the hit low because at 5M, there are very few options out there that will have the same impact during the Cup window that Gardiner will have and none that can be acquired only with cap space.
Jul 25, 2019 at 2:05
#11
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,913
Likes: 413
Quoting: LoganOllivier
The only way Gardiner signs in TO is if no one is offering him term because they are scared about his back. If that is the case, I can see him deciding to sign a 1 year cheap deal to take a run at the cup and rebuild his value so he can get a bigger deal next year. A long term deal with TO is out of the question and isn't going to happen.


A week ago would you say a deal like this was more or less likely than the Leafs acquiring Clarkson in a trade?

I believe Gardiner wants to play for the Leafs or he would have signed elsewhere already. Is it likely? Probably not but a scenario like this works for both sides and while the fanbase may not like it, Gardiner at 5M offers huge value considering their Cup window and compared to Ceci at 4.5 as well.
Jul 25, 2019 at 2:05
#12
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 31,197
Likes: 7,793
Quoting: Goulet
The whole point here is to show that they do have the space. They can open up another 1.5 just by sending Mikheyev down and waiving Gauthier. And I doubt they're done trading.

I offered 7 years to keep the hit low because at 5M, there are very few options out there that will have the same impact during the Cup window that Gardiner will have and none that can be acquired only with cap space.


Sending down minimum contracts doesn't really save money, you still have to replace those guys with similar money. You're right it could a trade like Johansson or Kapanen that creates cap space
My opinion this year is not a Cup window for the Leafs. Missing too much on defence this year.

I'm sure the Leafs don't mind Ceci's contract since it expires next summer. It's subjective I know but I would rather have Ceci for one year than Zaitsev or even Gardiner on a multi year.
Jul 25, 2019 at 2:07
#13
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,913
Likes: 413
Quoting: coga16
you arent allowed to do that anymore, 35% is the most a salary can increase and decrease from the following year. 7 to 3.5m exceeds that.


Explain Tavares contract then. It's 50%
Jul 25, 2019 at 2:12
#14
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,913
Likes: 413
Quoting: palhal
Sending down minimum contracts doesn't really save money, you still have to replace those guys with similar money. You're right it could a trade like Johansson or Kapanen that creates cap space
My opinion this year is not a Cup window for the Leafs. Missing too much on defence this year.

I'm sure the Leafs don't mind Ceci's contract since it expires next summer. It's subjective I know but I would rather have Ceci for one year than Zaitsev or even Gardiner on a multi year.


If this year wasn't part of their Cup window they wouldn't be making all the moves they're making and bring in guys like Barrie and Muzzin, not to mention Tavares. They are going for it as long as they have both Tavares and Matthews.

I left this roster one short for Marner. They could run at 20 for as long as it took to trade salary and use the 1.5-2.5M in cap space in the meantime.
Jul 25, 2019 at 2:13
#15
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 13,403
Likes: 4,084
Quoting: Goulet
A week ago would you say a deal like this was more or less likely than the Leafs acquiring Clarkson in a trade?

I believe Gardiner wants to play for the Leafs or he would have signed elsewhere already. Is it likely? Probably not but a scenario like this works for both sides and while the fanbase may not like it, Gardiner at 5M offers huge value considering their Cup window and compared to Ceci at 4.5 as well.


Well that is where I disagree completely, I don't think Gardiner is worth 5 million on a long term contract. I'd pay him 3.5 million on a long term deal because I don't think he's going to escape the early 30's decline. If he loses a step, he's barely an NHLer, he has little to know physicality and is very weak along the boards.
Jul 25, 2019 at 3:25
#16
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 8,454
Likes: 2,446
Quoting: Goulet
Explain Tavares contract then. It's 50%


year to year you cant change more than 35%, he doent have a 50% drop from one season to the next. You are missing the point, in the middle of the contract you cant jump down from 7m to 3.5m you have to do it gradually. The way its structured is just not in conformance of the CBA, I know its minor and all but you can still have the end result being the same, 7m year 1. 3.5m by the end
Jul 25, 2019 at 3:53
#17
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 31,197
Likes: 7,793
Quoting: Goulet
If this year wasn't part of their Cup window they wouldn't be making all the moves they're making and bring in guys like Barrie and Muzzin, not to mention Tavares. They are going for it as long as they have both Tavares and Matthews.

I left this roster one short for Marner. They could run at 20 for as long as it took to trade salary and use the 1.5-2.5M in cap space in the meantime.


Muzzin was traded for two year run...Think the Leafs are OK with his expiring 4m contract. Barrie, the Leafs needed a RHD. You could argue Kerfoot and Kadri and close in value so the Leaf got a 50% retained Barrie for Rosen and a third. Leafs take that all day long. Tavares is here for 6 more years, Matthews and Nylander 5, the window is hardly closing.

I just don't think the Leafs are good this year as last year, so I don't think they are as much contenders as last year. Last year 100 points...Montreal ninth in the conference with 96 points.
Jul 25, 2019 at 3:59
#18
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,913
Likes: 413
Quoting: coga16
year to year you cant change more than 35%, he doent have a 50% drop from one season to the next. You are missing the point, in the middle of the contract you cant jump down from 7m to 3.5m you have to do it gradually. The way its structured is just not in conformance of the CBA, I know its minor and all but you can still have the end result being the same, 7m year 1. 3.5m by the end


Got it. Easy fix. Move a mill from year three to four and it's gold.
Jul 25, 2019 at 4:04
#19
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 8,454
Likes: 2,446
Quoting: Goulet
Got it. Easy fix. Move a mill from year three to four and it's gold.


yeah i know it was semantics, but thats just the year to year thing that I think is a little silly, you can still have the same cap hit aav just start at 7, increase a bit and slowly decrease to get down to 3.5m.
Jul 25, 2019 at 4:14
#20
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,913
Likes: 413
Quoting: palhal
Muzzin was traded for two year run...Think the Leafs are OK with his expiring 4m contract. Barrie, the Leafs needed a RHD. You could argue Kerfoot and Kadri and close in value so the Leaf got a 50% retained Barrie for Rosen and a third. Leafs take that all day long. Tavares is here for 6 more years, Matthews and Nylander 5, the window is hardly closing.

I just don't think the Leafs are good this year as last year, so I don't think they are as much contenders as last year. Last year 100 points...Montreal ninth in the conference with 96 points.


I agree they're weaker on paper and management has to see it as well which is why I doubt they're done. The window is wide open which is why they have to get creative to maximize it year after year.

Of any move they can currently make without moving Kapanen or Johnsson, adding Gardiner at whatever term will have the greatest impact.
Jul 25, 2019 at 4:17
#21
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,913
Likes: 413
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Well that is where I disagree completely, I don't think Gardiner is worth 5 million on a long term contract. I'd pay him 3.5 million on a long term deal because I don't think he's going to escape the early 30's decline. If he loses a step, he's barely an NHLer, he has little to know physicality and is very weak along the boards.


I like your frugality but referring to him as barely an nhler is a little extreme. No D is perfect and his strengths far outway his flaws.
Jul 25, 2019 at 4:20
#22
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 31,197
Likes: 7,793
Quoting: Goulet
I agree they're weaker on paper and management has to see it as well which is why I doubt they're done. The window is wide open which is why they have to get creative to maximize it year after year.

Of any move they can currently make without moving Kapanen or Johnsson, adding Gardiner at whatever term will have the greatest impact.


I kinda think the Leafs had good off season. Clearing Marleau and Zaitsev's long term cap. The Avs trade, two NHLers for one. But with pay increases to Kapanen, Johnson, Matthews and I presume Marner something has to give cap wise and it might be the defence that takes a hit in quality. They have signed lots of bottom end players, can a couple step and be NHL competent all season long?
Jul 25, 2019 at 4:23
#23
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 13,403
Likes: 4,084
Quoting: Goulet
I like your frugality but referring to him as barely an nhler is a little extreme. No D is perfect and his strengths far outway his flaws.


For now, yes. But long term I have zero faith in Gardiner keeping his value. If he wants term go get it somewhere else, if he isn't getting it anywhere else. Then I'll happily make him fit once Marner signs and then let him rebuild his value. But only with a cheap 1 year contract.
Jul 25, 2019 at 4:29
#24
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,913
Likes: 413
Quoting: palhal
I kinda think the Leafs had good off season. Clearing Marleau and Zaitsev's long term cap. The Avs trade, two NHLers for one. But with pay increases to Kapanen, Johnson, Matthews and I presume Marner something has to give cap wise and it might be the defence that takes a hit in quality. They have signed lots of bottom end players, can a couple step and be NHL competent all season long?


I think they had a marvelous off season. Line by line they're better up front but they're still one top 4 D away from being balanced.
palhal liked this.
 
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