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Cap Solution- reward good drafting

What would be a better cap Solution
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Jul 26 at 4:28
#1
Joined: Jun 2019
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I've been thinking this for a year or so now. i hate when teams are penalized for drafting well. for example: why is Toronto in the cap hell for drafting great players: Matthew, Marner, Nylander, Kadri. wh ydid Chicago have to dismantle their team every year after winning the cup mainly with players they drafted, and developed.

My solution is give teams a 25% cap discount on their own draft picks. they would reward great drafting teams, and also leave more month for middle to lower tier players to be traded, and signed as UFA's. this is just a general idea. idk if this could apply through their whole career, or just their second contract.

What do you think?
Jul 26 at 4:35
#2
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,100
Likes: 665
Quoting: battadan
I've been thinking this for a year or so now. i hate when teams are penalized for drafting well. for example: why is Toronto in the cap hell for drafting great players: Matthew, Marner, Nylander, Kadri. wh ydid Chicago have to dismantle their team every year after winning the cup mainly with players they drafted, and developed.

My solution is give teams a 25% cap discount on their own draft picks. they would reward great drafting teams, and also leave more month for middle to lower tier players to be traded, and signed as UFA's. this is just a general idea. idk if this could apply through their whole career, or just their second contract.

What do you think?


They signed tavares, and matthews to crazy money contracts. Both players probably could have been had for less. Solution to not being in cap hell, dont give tavares an 11 million dollar FA contract. Canadian teams also have to pay more due to higher taxes. Chicago overpaid players like bickell, and got caught late with hossa's cap hit. FA is the worst thing for a teams cap hit. Look at bruins with backes, canucks with ericsson, flames/oilers with looch and neal. The problem isnt the players they are drafting, the problem is the big money contracts arent producing like they were before they were signed 9 times out of 10.
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Jul 26 at 4:41
#3
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 91
Likes: 24
i was using those as examples. UFA will always get paid above market. i don't see anyway around that. you didn't really address the question. do you like the framework of the idea? if not any solution you have?

i just hate that every hockey conversation starts, and mostly ends with how much a player is paid. it should be about how great of hockey players they are. Hossa for example. i don't care what his cap hit is, he was amazing to have on the hawks (i'm a hawk fan). if teams had a discount on their draft picks that free's up money to get difference makers in trade, or UFA. i'm jus tover the salary cap. it only helps 10-15 gm stay relevant.
Jul 26 at 4:57
#4
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,100
Likes: 665
Quoting: battadan
i was using those as examples. UFA will always get paid above market. i don't see anyway around that. you didn't really address the question. do you like the framework of the idea? if not any solution you have?

i just hate that every hockey conversation starts, and mostly ends with how much a player is paid. it should be about how great of hockey players they are. Hossa for example. i don't care what his cap hit is, he was amazing to have on the hawks (i'm a hawk fan). if teams had a discount on their draft picks that free's up money to get difference makers in trade, or UFA. i'm jus tover the salary cap. it only helps 10-15 gm stay relevant.


Hard cap keeps the SMALL market teams relevant. Thats the whole point of the salary cap, i think its 100% fine the way it is. I see no problems with the way the cap is structured. Hossa was a fantastic player. I loved hossa, wish he was a bruins instead of a hawk. But its a guaranteed contract, if you dont want a cap problem dont sign the player to a term that you cant live with. 5 years was too much for david backes. EVERYONE except i guess the bruins front office knew that. But again, they knew they were going to have cap problems when tavares matthews and nylander were signed for a combined almost 30m. add in marner wanting $$ and now almost half your team is making crazy money.
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Jul 26 at 5:27
#5
best poster
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 850
The issue with the salary cap structure is that there really is no incentive to re-sign with a team over going to free agency. We will see a lot more 5-year RFA contracts because they and agents have finally realized that they can get bigger salaries if they can talk to all teams rather than just one. I don't think giving teams a discount for drafting good is the best idea, considering the draft usually ends up being more luck based. I'd rather see cap and contract structures reformed so that there's a substantial benefit for players to re-up with their team.

Quoting: hanson493
They signed tavares, and matthews to crazy money contracts. Both players probably could have been had for less. Solution to not being in cap hell, dont give tavares an 11 million dollar FA contract. Canadian teams also have to pay more due to higher taxes. Chicago overpaid players like bickell, and got caught late with hossa's cap hit. FA is the worst thing for a teams cap hit. Look at bruins with backes, canucks with ericsson, flames/oilers with looch and neal. The problem isnt the players they are drafting, the problem is the big money contracts arent producing like they were before they were signed 9 times out of 10.


Last year being were offering Tavares upwards of 13 million. Also, I'd rather be in a cap hell with mostly good players than deadweights like Edmonton, Chicago and Vancouver. I also think the days of overpaying for free agents are ending, case in point with signings like Backes, Lucic, Eriksson. As I said above, more players will aim to get to FA as soon as they can.

Quoting: battadan
i was using those as examples. UFA will always get paid above market. i don't see anyway around that. you didn't really address the question. do you like the framework of the idea? if not any solution you have?

i just hate that every hockey conversation starts, and mostly ends with how much a player is paid. it should be about how great of hockey players they are. Hossa for example. i don't care what his cap hit is, he was amazing to have on the hawks (i'm a hawk fan). if teams had a discount on their draft picks that free's up money to get difference makers in trade, or UFA. i'm jus tover the salary cap. it only helps 10-15 gm stay relevant.


UFAs get paid a lot because there are multiple teams in a bidding war over players, so agents can up the price of their clients to get a sizeable payday. That's not really an issue, the issue is that often teams spend big on players who eventually fall off and their contracts become an anchor on the team.

Quoting: hanson493
Hard cap keeps the SMALL market teams relevant. Thats the whole point of the salary cap, i think its 100% fine the way it is. I see no problems with the way the cap is structured.


Small market teams still face a lot of the same issues they would've had without a salary cap.
Jul 26 at 9:40
#6
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,100
Likes: 665
Mondo, if there was no salary cap, the big market teams: montreal, toronto, boston, chicago. The heavy fanbases would just spend over and above what the smaller teams could afford. Think how baseball is sort of structured. The nhl currently supports the tampa bays the nashvilles, the minnesotas etc. Not so much in baseball where tampa cant fill a stadium and they csnt put out the same quality team as the yankees or redsox can. They face similar issues to big market teams but without a hard cap those small teams would have zero talent outside of elc deals and lesser secondary talent.
Jul 27 at 6:50
#7
best poster
Joined: Jul 2019
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Quoting: hanson493
Mondo, if there was no salary cap, the big market teams: montreal, toronto, boston, chicago. The heavy fanbases would just spend over and above what the smaller teams could afford. Think how baseball is sort of structured. The nhl currently supports the tampa bays the nashvilles, the minnesotas etc. Not so much in baseball where tampa cant fill a stadium and they csnt put out the same quality team as the yankees or redsox can. They face similar issues to big market teams but without a hard cap those small teams would have zero talent outside of elc deals and lesser secondary talent.


I'm not against the salary cap. I do like the NHL's better than the other major leagues because it does institute some form of parity. The problem is that smaller market teams essentially have no incentive to encourage players to re-sign rather than seek out a bigger market.
Jul 27 at 9:20
#8
BuFfaLoFan
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,875
Likes: 540
I believe this is a good idea but I think 25% is way 2 much like Toronto could save like 10m on cap if half the players on there team where drafted by them. I think a lower percentage of the cap could work
Jul 27 at 4:31
#9
Cale 4 Calder
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,572
Likes: 1,064
Toronto isnt getting "penalized" for drafting well. Their cap issues were mainly caused by them signing Tavares and Marleau as UFAs and overpaying Matthews.

Also, if you allow teams to exceed the cap for players which they drafted (or give them "discounts" for players they drafted), it would discourage teams from making trades and signing UFAs which would make the trade deadline, draft lottery, free agency, and the entire offseason much less exciting. Having a firm salary cap makes every team compete on an level playing field without allowing bigger market teams to dominate by overpaying their players. Its a good thing that most cup winning teams cant stay together due to cap restrictions since it discourages dynasties and makes the league more competitive instead of having the same team win every single year
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Jul 27 at 8:26
#10
I just need sauce
Joined: Oct 2017
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Likes: 819
Quoting: hanson493
They signed tavares, and matthews to crazy money contracts. Both players probably could have been had for less. Solution to not being in cap hell, dont give tavares an 11 million dollar FA contract. Canadian teams also have to pay more due to higher taxes. Chicago overpaid players like bickell, and got caught late with hossa's cap hit. FA is the worst thing for a teams cap hit. Look at bruins with backes, canucks with ericsson, flames/oilers with looch and neal. The problem isnt the players they are drafting, the problem is the big money contracts arent producing like they were before they were signed 9 times out of 10.


Yeah but TAVARES SCORED 46 GOALS! WTF are YOU TALKING ABOUT! SJS was about to give him 13 MILLION! The leafs are in cap hell because: THEY ARE A REALLY GOOD TEAM IN THE SALARY CAP ERA!
Quoting: moli92
Toronto isnt getting "penalized" for drafting well. Their cap issues were mainly caused by them signing Tavares and Marleau as UFAs and overpaying Matthews.

Also, if you allow teams to exceed the cap for players which they drafted (or give them "discounts" for players they drafted), it would discourage teams from making trades and signing UFAs which would make the trade deadline, draft lottery, free agency, and the entire offseason much less exciting. Having a firm salary cap makes every team compete on an level playing field without allowing bigger market teams to dominate by overpaying their players. Its a good thing that most cup winning teams cant stay together due to cap restrictions since it discourages dynasties and makes the league more competitive instead of having the same team win every single year
Jul 27 at 8:32
#11
Cale 4 Calder
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,572
Likes: 1,064
Quoting: SpaghettiPasta
Yeah but TAVARES SCORED 46 GOALS! WTF are YOU TALKING ABOUT! SJS was about to give him 13 MILLION! The leafs are in cap hell because: THEY ARE A REALLY GOOD TEAM IN THE SALARY CAP ERA!


I never said Tavares was a bad signing. Just that the fact that the leafs signed him is a main cause for them not having much money to sign their other players.
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Jul 29 at 1:58
#12
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,100
Likes: 665
Quoting: SpaghettiPasta
Yeah but TAVARES SCORED 46 GOALS! WTF are YOU TALKING ABOUT! SJS was about to give him 13 MILLION! The leafs are in cap hell because: THEY ARE A REALLY GOOD TEAM IN THE SALARY CAP ERA!


Did i say anything about Tavares talent? He is a fantastic player. But you gave him 11m. you gave matthews 11.5. thats 27.61% of your cap allowance tied into 2 players. You cant feasibly tie that much cap into a few players and expect to not be in cap hell. You either need young guys like marner to produce on ELC's or bridge deals. or dont have middle tier talent and only have depth pieces.
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Aug 7 at 4:14
#13
Cup Champs finally
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 18
Likes: 16
Edited Aug 7 at 3:23
I don't agree with rewarding a team for sucking so bad that they get to draft high with a discount on those top players to boot? How many years were Toronto's picks in the top 10? How many picks even in the top 10 do you think St Louis has had in the past 30 years? St Louis has stayed competitive, and they've already been punished with low draft picks. Dumpster teams like Toronto have the advantage of choosing from the cream of the crop. Toronto got greedy!
Aug 7 at 4:24
#14
Cup Champs finally
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 18
Likes: 16
Give discounts to picks only from rounds 3 through 7 if you wanna reward quality drafting... not top 10 picks.
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Aug 7 at 8:53
#15
Formerly klondikebar
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 3,016
Likes: 1,487
Quoting: battadan
I've been thinking this for a year or so now. i hate when teams are penalized for drafting well. for example: why is Toronto in the cap hell for drafting great players: Matthew, Marner, Nylander, Kadri. wh ydid Chicago have to dismantle their team every year after winning the cup mainly with players they drafted, and developed.

My solution is give teams a 25% cap discount on their own draft picks. they would reward great drafting teams, and also leave more month for middle to lower tier players to be traded, and signed as UFA's. this is just a general idea. idk if this could apply through their whole career, or just their second contract.

What do you think?


You have a very good point. I think 25% is a lot though and it should be something like 10% discount. Still you make a very good point.
battadan liked this.
Aug 7 at 9:48
#16
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,100
Likes: 665
Quoting: klondikebar
You have a very good point. I think 25% is a lot though and it should be something like 10% discount. Still you make a very good point.


Quoting: sutter11
Give discounts to picks only from rounds 3 through 7 if you wanna reward quality drafting... not top 10 picks.


So the oilers should get a 1.2m per year discount on mcdavid? leafs should get a 1.1642 discount on auston matthews? There should be zero discount. Toronto overpaid matthews, then paid Tavares. if they dont pay tavares 11m they have room for a top pairing dman, a 2nd line center, and marner. Unless you get them at a cheaper contract, you cant have top tier talent and expect to not have cap issues. Literally the entire purpose of the hard cap is to make sure all teams can spread the wealth of talent for more competition across the league.
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Aug 7 at 3:35
#17
Cup Champs finally
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 18
Likes: 16
Toronto already had a HUGE advantage. In the past ten years, Toronto has had six top 10 picks because they were in the dumpster. In the same time period, my Blues have had zero top 10 picks by staying competitive; in past THIRTY years, the Blues have had only TWO top 10 picks. Why should Toronto get the added advantage of a discount on premium players just because the team sucked?
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Aug 7 at 3:49
#18
I just need sauce
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 819
Quoting: klondikebar
You have a very good point. I think 25% is a lot though and it should be something like 10% discount. Still you make a very good point.


Maybe 7.5%
 
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